Found Deceased AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 *Arrest* #27

Discussion in 'Trials' started by Greater Than, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. Crosby87

    Crosby87 Well-Known Member

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    Who are the two men the next door neighbor heard early Saturday morning?

    I never heard the Celis’s or LE ask these two men to contact them so I wonder who are they and why they were there? This reported information remains a mystery yet it such an important part of this investigation.

    I am suspicious because LE has never cleared this up. Are they hiding something?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019


  2. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    Morning Katy!

    Remember when the pedophile sex offender John Couey was able to sneak into the grandparent's home of Jessica Lunsford? He was an absconded sex offender at the time.

    JC had no gun or weapon when kidnapping Jessica from the safety of her home.

    Repeat pedophiles know every twisted trick in the book when it comes to kidnapping, raping, and murdering defenseless children. They often control by fear, and intimidation.

    That is why more often than not when they go inside the targeted victim's home, no one inside hears or sees anything.

    It's sad, but true...serial pedophile predators are very skilled at what they do.

    Since iirc they did find small blood droplets in her bedroom he most likely brought a knife with him in order to intimidate her into being silent while he forced her to go with him. It rips my heart out to know how frightened she must have been. :(

    So you are absolutely correct when saying pedophiles don't need to use a firearm or even a weapon when kidnapping any child.

    Most victims of pedophile murderers weren't shot to death. Many were strangled, stabbed or killed with a bludgeoning weapon of some kind.

    Offenders like CC dont follow any laws or rules in the first place. If so, they wouldn't become horrific predators in the first place.

    No matter what he was suppose to abide by its obvious he thinks no rules apply to him. So carrying a knife, or any type weapon.. even a gun he would do what he thought was necessary to kidnap any child he targeted.

    I wonder if the ME was able to discern if Isa had been bludgeoned or stabbed since they did find pieces of her little skull?

    They are able to ID man made tool markings from animal activity markings.

    Jmho
     
  3. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    I'm so confused.

    Are you saying you believe this violent predator against young children is innocent of both murders?

    Being charged with double homicide is most definitely a record of extreme violence. So much so the DA is asking for the death penalty.

    Just because he hasn't been caught doing other crimes never means he wasn't doing them.

    TIA

    Jmho
     
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  4. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    It's been proven CC is a very violent man. Preying on the most innocent to sexually assault them shows he has a violent history.

    But even if he did not, that is no indicator of who will become a sadistic murderer.

    Many cases discussed right here include murderer who didnt have any violent history or no criminal history at all...not even a traffic ticket before they did the most brutal overkills.

    David Westfield the pedophile murderer of little 7 year old Danielle Van Dam had no criminal history yet it did not stop him or immune him from being a kidnapper, rapist, and murderer of a precious little girl. He was given the DP too.

    CCs violent criminal history is vast and began in his teens.

    Jmho
     
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  5. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    Was this not a fact because neither victims were home at the time?

    I thought the criminal duo used the ploy the victims needed to go to pick up some kind of package from the supposedly shipper, and were then robbed of their possessions?

    Jmho
     
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  6. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    The more I think of beautiful Isas skull being found in pieces the more heartbroken I am for little isa, and the entire grieving Celis family. :(

    But I find it also sadly revealing. Having kept up with cases where the victim's remains were located many years later most all had their skulls intact unless at the time of their murders they were bludgeoned in the head.

    Sometimes the lower jaw will not be located due to wild life activity. Plus when the lower mandable no longer has connective tissue or muscle to hold it on it can drop away from the skull itself, and taken by wild animals.

    But generally when the skull is found belonging to any murder victim is found in several pieces it's due to the victims sustaining severe skull fractures before death.

    Once the hair, and scalp deteriorates falling away from the skull the fractures will separate into several pieces.

    Remember how the skulls of the 4 McStay victims were found in pieces due to being bludgeoned to death by Charles Merritt?

    I truly think little Isa could have met the same fate at the hands of Clements.

    Jmho though
     
  7. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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  8. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    Clements has a lengthy criminal record including convictions for a child sex crime, identity theft, assault, and failing to register as a sex offender.

    Clements has been held in Maricopa County jail for months where he's currently facing several additional criminal charges for burglary and fraud.

    In the burglaries allegedly committed by Clements, prosecutors describe a suspect who worked to research his potential victims and set them up through elaborate schemes.

    Clements is accused of targeting an elderly Valley couple, both in their 80s, in one case.

    Investigators also found child pornography in Clements’ possession. In 2006, records show that he failed to register as a sex offender in Oregon and Florida.

    The sources said there is concern that Clements could have other child victims other than Celis and Gonzalez given his criminal history as a sex offender.
    Charges filed in murder of Isabel Celis

    I don't understand why one would describe him as not being a bully or an aggressive thief, when he has convictions for sexual assaults upon children?
     
  9. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    He went after the elderly, and the ill, when he lured them from their homes, so he could enter and steal their precious heirlooms.

    One grandmother whom he targeted, was suffering from cancer, in the middle of chemo, and had recently lost a child to cancer.

    So he calls her at home and says he works at Fed Ex and she has a package from A Cancer Support Center. HOW EVIL IS THAT? To lure her out of her home by appealing to her vulnerability?

    And you are saying he did not cause her any bodily harm? I disagree.

     
  10. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

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    I don't think either of these men led the cops to the girl's bodies, so it doesn't matter much who they are, imo.
     
  11. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    I think given that the neighbor was the sole person to have reportedly heard men talking (while nobody in Celis family heard this), investigators deemed the information not credible for the date Isabel disappeared.

    Also, I don't think LE make it a practice of hiding evidence-- especially when investigating the disappearance and murder of a six year old child.

    MOO
     
  12. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    Morning Katy, and all!

    All of his victims were easy targets because they are our most vulnerable. Our elderly, and our precious children are the most vulnerable in society, and CC knew it.

    Anyone who is robbed of their treasured heirlooms, which can never be replaced, will forever be emotionally traumatized.

    Anyone, no matter their age or status is traumatized when their possession were stolen from them. It leaves them feeling unsafe in their own home. Understandably, it leaves them with dread it will happen again. It very much leaves many victims in its wake of terror.

    Even how CC, and partner in crime, carried out their robberies shows how cold, heartless, and callous an individual he is when he specifically targets the most vulnerable in society.

    It shows also how calculating his evil deeds are before he carries them out.

    Domestic violence against one of his partners, even if it happened, can't begin to compare to all of his recorded violent history he has done against defenseless helpless children or specifically targeting the very elderly.

    This isn't cases about domestic violence anyway, so that is totally irrelevant in this double homicide case. Why it would be thrown in as if it somehow has any relevance still leaves me totally confused.

    This isn't a man charged with DV within his own family.

    2 beautiful children were kidnapped, held against their will, raped, and murdered by CC who was a total stranger.

    Even the evidence we all have learned to date, shows CC has a long extremely violent history. It also shows how cunning he is before he carries out his deviant diabolical crimes against his vulnerable intended targets.

    Imo, he carefully plans them out, just like the serial pedophile/murderer, Joseph Duncan did before taking his targets. Oh for what it's worth, which is nothing imo, he did not have any DV charges in his history either. His targets, like CC, were against victims that were strangers to him. That is who both selected to inflict unimaginable violence against.

    Imo, one must be violent when they prey on children, brutally raping them, yet like many pedos, before... CC.. raping was not enough violence to inflict on their victims. So they resort to kidnapping, raping, and murdering them.

    Once these horrid creatures, rape or murders one child, and isn't caught they go on to target, and rape, murder other children.

    CC fits the profile of a very violent serial sexual predator/murderer to a T.

    As an aside: ITA with Seattle about the supposedly 2 men talking close to the Celis home.

    Like many things that are said to have occurred in unsolved cases, many turned out to be totally irrelevant to the crime itself.

    I remember at the time this neighbor speaking out feeling she wasn't credible, and was only looking for her 15 minutes of fame which mostly was on Nancy Grace's show.

    It's illogical to believe Isa was kidnapped from the safety of her home at 6am in the morning.

    Pedophile monsters go into homes when it's in the middle of the night when they know everyone is asleep, including their targeted little victims. :(

    In Maribel's case he most likely had been watching her for sometime, and waited for the opportune time, when he saw her walking alone with no one else around.

    As we know all too well, other pedophiles have kidnapped children right off of a busy street in broad daylight with no one hearing or seeing anything, and were later found raped, and murdered.

    Jmho
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  13. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    When is the judge going to rule about the evidence found in CCs cell that was given over to a special master?

    TIA
     
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  14. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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    2021 trial date for man accused of killing 2 Arizona girls


    TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) — A Tucson judge has set a February 2021 trial date for a convicted sex offender accused of killing two Arizona girls.

    Attorneys on both sides asked that the trial of Christopher Matthew Clements not begin next year. It's estimated to last nine weeks.

    Prosecutors estimate there are 80 witnesses to interview beforehand.

    The 37-year-old Clements attended his status conference Monday [10/14].




    and I have in my notes:
    For Fraud, burglary & theft charges next Evidentiary hearing on 11/1 and 11/8.
     
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  15. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    They don't come much nastier than CMC.

    No worry about foregoing a speedy trial here. He's never living another day in his life on the outside, and he'll do nothing to advance justice for the lives of his victims.
     
  16. Dontknow?

    Dontknow? Well-Known Member

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  17. TristanP

    TristanP Well-Known Member

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    Well, nobody in the Celis family, including the dogs, heard a complete stranger come into the house and remove Isabel from her bed, either. So I’m not sure that’s a good measure of involvement or not.
     
  18. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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    If the stranger entered the Celis house after sunrise, talking with another man, instead of entering alone in the middle of the night when entire household dead asleep, well yeah -- maybe they would have heard him.
     
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  19. Niner

    Niner Long time Websleuther

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    Thank you Dontknow?! :)
     
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  20. Seattle1

    Seattle1 #LiveLikeLizzy

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