AZ - Kristin Grell, 2, burned alive, Mesa, 2 Dec 1999

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by Nocgirl, Nov 17, 2006.

  1. Nocgirl

    Nocgirl New Member

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    This really pisses me off. The suspect is only 17 and the mother has 4 kids, the oldest was 8!!!! How old was she?? How appaling. After the 1 year old was killed, the kids were left alone ALL day after the idiot took off, and the kids were probably too scared to go to a neighbors house.

    The mom has been interviewed. The little punk did not father any of her kids, and she knew he had anger management issues. They had a domestic violence call prior, but he assured her he had changed. She still left him alone all day with 4 kids. Same old crap. They should sterilize her and arrest her.

    This is going to sound bad, but out here in AZ, almost EVERY single one of these child deaths involve a hispanic, or african american male. The moms almost always have several children.

    Bad news is, the punk is likely in Mexico and Mexico will not extradite its citizens to the US if they face the death penalty or life in Mexico. There is Mexico for ya.

    http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepagetopstory/stories/KTVKLNews20061116_toddler-death.41a294d7.html
     
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  3. julianne

    julianne Former Member

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    RE: The bolded part.

    You're right, it does sound bad. While you think that the majority of baby killers in Arizona are Black or Hispanic, you are quite wrong in that assumption.

    SHAWN GRELL: White Man---Kidnapped his little 2 year old daughter and set her on fire, while alive, and left her to burn to death in the Apache Junction desert.

    DEBORAH MILKE: White Woman---Arranged for her 4 year old to be kidnapped, shot & killed for life insurance money. The shooters: Her two WHITE friends.

    Also...a missing WHITE 8 year old girl was found raped & strangled to death. The "family friend", A WHITE MAN, was found later to be guilty of kidnapping & killing her while she walked to school. He left her house after she did and followed her.

    The WHITE woman who shot her WHITE 7 year old daughter in the desert of Apach Junction, because "God told her to".

    Evil knows no race. Saying the majority of baby killers are not white is not only wrong, it is an uneducated statement. The above is only a very small sampling of WHITE baby killers. There are many, many more. Just check out AZ Death Row.
     
  4. SadieMae

    SadieMae Former Member

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    It does not sound bad, it is bad! Before making such a statement, facts should be there to back it up by the poster. These crimes shouldn't even have a racial tone to it....it's a horrible thing regardless if they were white/black/hispanic/asian or whatever.
     
  5. IdahoMom

    IdahoMom Former Member

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    Well, how about saying that there seems to be a disproportionate number of live-in boyfriends killing kids these days? It seems like more libve-ins are killing kids than fathers!

    My perception, of course.:angel:
     
  6. SadieMae

    SadieMae Former Member

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    I agree. From the threads, and from what I read on news sites, that does seem to be the situation in the majority of cases. The news stories don't even mention race. The only way to get a clue is if photos are posted of the perps, not that it matters to me.
     
  7. IdahoMom

    IdahoMom Former Member

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    I've seen plenty of news articles with pictures of white men killing kids.
     
  8. cynpat2000

    cynpat2000 Former Member

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    True so true, if men dont want to be around kids they should not get with ladies that have them.
     
  9. IdahoMom

    IdahoMom Former Member

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  10. michelle

    michelle Joy comes in the Morning

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    Exactly!
     
  11. michelle

    michelle Joy comes in the Morning

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  12. Lisahas2cats

    Lisahas2cats New Member

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    I could have gone the rest of my life without knowing this :(

    Why? Just damned why?? :furious:

    As far as the racial demographics of people who harm children, I've always had the perception (right or wrong) that these crimes seem to be committed more often by young white men rather than Hispanic or black. Maybe that's just the group who gets reported on most in my area...
     
  13. 2sisters

    2sisters New Member

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    I can not for the life of me undersatnd why women pick up these men with no regard to their safety of their children. Then they let the loser move in with them. I may get attacked for this but when you are a single woman with kids, the boyfrined should not be living with you. it just causes confusion and is risky. i know this can easily happen with married couples as well, but it seems like lately it's always the boyfriend. I have a friend (single mom) who has had a string of loser boyfriends and I can not get it through her head to be more careful.
     
  14. julianne

    julianne Former Member

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    I honestly think it stems from these womens childhood and how they were brought up. There are still women, to this day, who raise their daughters to view themselves as having no real value without a man. Or that their ultimate goal should be finding a man. Not necessarily on purpose, just certain nuances they project onto their daughters. My female family member is like that....very nice to her child, not abusive in any way, BUT she tells her little 10 year old "You're going to grow up and marry a nice, rich man", or "Don't make the mistakes I did...you need to find yourself a GOOD husband when you grow up." I am always trying to 'undo' what she has done when I have the little girl, and tell her she's a strong, powerful person who can grow up to do anything and be anyone she wants, and she doesn't need to "find" herself a husband, and that it's more important for her to do her own thing and build a strong, solid, happy life for herself and if she's meant to married later on down the road, then that is something that will just happen & she need'nt go "looking for it." It just rifles my feathers when her mother unwittingly projects the idea that the little girls main goal in life is to stand next to a man. I dunno, I could be wrong, but it's the only reason I can think of why seemingly caring, normal women feel the need to "have a man" at any cost, even if he is a low-life scoundrel.
     
  15. Mabel

    Mabel Former Member

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    Obviously the mother has some problems if she has 4 children yet considers a 17 year old kid to be her boyfriend.
     
  16. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    Excellent post. This is not a race issue...though I do believe that it is often a socio-economic issue.
     
  17. Nocgirl

    Nocgirl New Member

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    I am in AZ and I am quite aware that white men kill children too, no need to point that out.

    For the past 2 years I have been collecting horrible stories like this, in hope that CPS and DSS starts taking child abuse cases involving a live in boyfriend more seriously.

    I mentioned race because in the stories I have collected, 80% of the men involved are minorities. So I am not making the statistic up. Just an interesting statistic.

    Regardless of race, I am sick of hearing about stories like this and the mothers need to be held more accountable.

    By the way, I am not racist, far from it. My husband is 100% hispanic and we have a 2 year old together.

    Sorry if my statistics upset anyone.
     
  18. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    Thanks for the stats and insight. I'd be more interested to know (and I think it is more helpful to us as a society for us to know) how many of your stories involve families living in poverty.
     
  19. julianne

    julianne Former Member

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    It's not that your stats upset me, although I can see how one could come to that conclusion reading my post. I just honestly think that a persons race has absolutely nothing to do with it....at all. I don't think that if your hispanic or Black, that you are more prone to be a murderer. It SO doesn't play into it and I think the mere mention of it somehow signifies that you feel race is a factor that plays into it. Almost as if these killers were all wearing Levi's brand jeans at the time of the murders, that Levi's are somehow the reasoning behind it. Just my opinion....

    Now, as Southcitymom said, I am sure poverty figures in it. And as another poster said, I think live-in boyfriends play into this also. Not all--I just think that is another aspect of some women thinking they are aren't valid enough on their own without a man in their lives. Any man. I don't think poverty is the reason for it, but it is a fact that many violent murderers are uneducated, possibly have a lower IQ than the norm, do not hold long-term jobs, are unsuccessful in many aspects of their lives and as a result...live in poverty. Now, I know there has also been murderers who were geniuses, and highly successful, whatever...it's hard to determine what causes these sorts of things, but I know that race isn't one of those causes.

    Mabel...I agree, any woman who is a mother to 4 children and considers a 17 year old boy her BOYFRIEND has serious issues. Again, this very well could be a case of this woman thinking she HAS to have a man in her life (boy) and some women believe that so wholeheartedly that they will settle for anything with legs and and a penis.
     
  20. Nocgirl

    Nocgirl New Member

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    Well, most of these cases do involve some sort of pvoerty I imagine because i think these women are so desperate to take care of their kids, they depend on these unreliable men for daycare.

    Eveyone knows that AZ has a real problem with illegal immigration from Mexico and its probably safe to assume much of these cases involve undocumented immigrants but I cannot for sure verify that. When the suspect takes off to Mexico something tells me he shouldn't be here in the first place.

    Alot of these immigrants come up here because they cannot take care of their kids and some probably are on welfare, some aren't but I don't know.

    So, a vast majority of these cases, the mother has 3 or more kids. There needs to be some sort of way to keep these women from getting pregnant over and over. Personally, if these women want any gov't help they should agree not to have any more kids (since most select losers for fathers and don't get child support, thats why they qualify for gov't assistance).

    Also if I think the DA's office was more aggresive in holding mothers accountable for their boyfriends, it would make them think twice about leaving the kids home with an idiot.

    The mom was interviewed and she said of course, she never thought he would hurt one of her kids.

    Unfortunately we cannot sterilize these women, so how do we stop this?
     
  21. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    I think race is important to look at insofar as asking myself why are so many non-whites more likely to find themselves impoverished in this very wealthy country.
     

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