Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by sissi, Jan 5, 2004.
On Ricki Lake..11:15 EST..now..
Ricky was not too hard on the baby pageant moms,the kids were certainly overdone,in the way of Jonbenet,and the mother's spoke with the southern "draw". Soccer mom..little league dad...cheerleader parent...all pretty much the same IMO.
No, they're not pretty much the same. Yes, it is the same when one takes their child to the activities of their choice.
It's quite different in the levels they take it to
Soccer mom = okay
Soccer mom who browbeats their child after losing = NOT okay
Little league dad = okay
Little league dad who gets into fistfights with other parents and umpires = NOT okay
Cheerleader parent = okay
Cheerleader parent who murders the mother of a cheerleading competitor = NOT okay
Pageant mom = okay
Pageant mom who bleaches the hair of a 6 year old, spends thousands of dollars on showgirl costumes, dance and singing lessons, denies it's more than a "few Sunday afternoons", worries about a photo shoot when their child has chicken pox marks on her face, etc., etc. = NOT okay
So there are, in fact, differences and they are all not alike or the same at all.
For the record: I never felt the pageants had anything to do with the murder, but always wondered why Patsy played it down. Pageants for children are not something I find acceptable on those levels, but I never held that against the Ramseys when discussing this murder.
But once again, Patsy's denial of the importance of the pageants in their life sent my suspicions soaring as she showed herself to be a liar. One then wonders what else she lied/s about.
I think Patsy was embarrassed when she realized what many other people thought of kiddie pageants and JBR's performances in them. I think that's why she tends to play them down.
Patsy is the type of person who would be embarrassed by what others might think. That is one of the reasons I felt this whole "perfect marriage", "perfect children", "perfect family life", was silly. NOBODY has a PERFECT marriage, child, or family. We just don't necessarily know the details.
So that is why this whole "no history of...", perfect marriage and family stuff was always nonsense to me
So right Barbara! It falls right into the Ramseys' main priority since JonBenet died - not to find the killer (they weren't even angry John said on CNN) - but to regain their reputation. Their good name. Their book is rife with comments about it. Particularly by John Ramsey. Their actions in the past 7 years speak for themselves. They do not spend their time like most parents of murdered children: helping to changing laws, joining support groups to help other parents like "Parents of Murdered Children" (we've never heard of them doing any such thing), their 'foundation' in JonBenet's name has apparently fizzled and dried up, and I often wonder if Patsy ever calls some of these other moms like Brenda VanDam to offer her support and 'kinship'??
They seem to spend most of their efforts and time on SUING people who suspect them. Again - putting all their energies into restoring their name and getting the public to believe they are innocent (strong-arming them if necessary) instead of looking for the killer of their daughter.
Even their book titled" "Death of Innocence" had THEIR picture on the cover - not JonBenet's!!!! Isn't SHE the innocent one who died?? That has always just flabbergasted me.
I am readin from a link provided on this forum about Linda H-P. It says, even boldly printed in red, that Nedra was more of a planner and more into it than PR was. Those are in LHP's words? Then why is PR getting all the flack for this?
It also stated that if JonBenet didn't want to go, Patsy didn't make her. Doesn't sound like an obsessive pageant mom to me....
Ofcourse not. Patsy was invited along with dozens of other former contestants to a reunion dinner. She attended and as did so many others they brought along their kids. JonBenet loved it and wanted to do it. They had the time, inclination and money to indulge her. But that doesn't make it some big deal. Making costumes was a labor of love. AuntPam enjoyed it much as many of the posters here would enjoy sewing a patch on a kid's costume or donning spangles on some leotard for some tot's Jazzercise.
Now if you really want to see 'bad' in a pageant: look at what happens if even one of you posters out there who are unalterably opposed to such kiddie pageants happened to find yourself at one.
Would you "sit on your hands" throughout the entire performance while everyone else clapped? Would you say ''Too bad, beauty is out and brains are in"? Thats what Pricilla White did. When each little girl made her entry and exit, everyone in the room applauded, but Pricilla White just sat there. Thats not even polite if it is just adults, but when its a series of little girls, its more than just rude.
Were you there Toth? Did you SEE Pricislla White refuse to clap at these pageants? How then can you make such a claim?
Again as always - you will refuse to name a source. I think I'll try a Toth here:
John Ramsey was an absent father to his children. Burke especially would sometimes cry because his father rebuffed his many attempts to get his father to interact with him. Burke finally gave up and viewed his father more as an occasional visitor more than anything and it eventually affected his social skills.
Patsy didn't really care one way or another and JonBenet had the full focus of her mother on her so she didn't really want for attention.
I don't have to name a source because Toth never does.
Toth, I agree that if Priscilla White did that, it was rude. She shouldn't have gone if that's how she felt. But...I've never heard that story before. Who told it to you?
Good question Ivy, I have done a ton of reading including enough newpaper articles to make me crosseyed. I have never read that quoted about Priscilla anywhere. If she didn't clap at least she wasn't being a hypocrite, however, she was being a friend by attending.
Maybe her hands hurt that night. Or, maybe she got a bad manicure.
Its never been published anywhere. This was from the time Priscilla attended because her daughter wanted to watch JonBenet perform.
Priscilla obviously did not enjoy the event.
And in response to your questions: NO. I was not there. However this is from reliable sources who were there! Sitting near Pricilla White at the time.
AuntPam told me about this a long time ago in one of our many chats.
And we inch closer to the truth Toth.....
"Making costumes was a labor of love. AuntPam enjoyed it much as many of the posters here would enjoy sewing a patch on a kid's costume or donning spangles on some leotard for some tot's Jazzercise"
Are you saying that "Aunt Pam" made JonBenet"s costumes? I thought the costume maker was Pam Griffith.
After watching the program,I (more than ever) believed that within a certain cultural
group, pageants are as normal as any other chosen sport. There is discipline involved,
preparation/planning, physical activity,family support/interaction ,leading to performance and competition. Children involved in this activity are no more going to be
the object of a pedophile than one of the little gymnasts performing at the local "franchised" sport facility. Looking at children sexually is in the mind of a pedophile,wearing makeup and appearing as a "small adult" would ,by the definition of a pedophile ,be more of a minus then a plus in their minds.
If Jonbenet was watched,stalked and the object of fantasy weeks or even days before her murder,IMO,it would be more likely (if a pedophile) to be someone very close by,a neighbor (such as westerfield), a friend, someone who saw her fresh faced and childlike on a regular basis.
I have news for you. Everyone else does not necessarily applaud. See the documentary Painted Babies. You will see the majority of the parents in the room sitting on their hands while children other than their own are in the spotlight. (I am watching it right now; the Supreme Queen is announced, and her relatives scream in joy, while in the background, you would think a lecture on stalagmites was being given as far as the audience is concerned.) I have further news for you. Beauty is out, and brains are in, and this has been true ever since Patsy was a teenager. She did not graduate magna cum laude from West Virginia University purely because she knew how to apply cosmetics to her face. She had to pass tests and write papers, and those skills require brains, not beauty. The Nobel Prize is not won because the winner is beautiful. The President is not elected because of beauty. The Secretary of State is not appointed because of beauty. Lives are not saved every day because the people saving lives are beautiful. Beauty did not invent the computer or the Internet. If something important needs doing, being beautiful will not get it done. Priscilla was saying something both honest and accurate, and is to be applauded herself for knowing what is true.
I really don't see the big deal about the pageants. I think the whole pageant thing has been blown way out of proportion, and I certainly don't think it makes Patsy a bad mom because she allowed Jonbenet to participate in them. She had a beautiful daughter and she was proud of her. I don't see how the pageants had anything to do with JB's death, unless she was killed by some crazed pedophile who was a "pageant stalker" or something. I guess that is possible.
:laugh: "AuntPam told me about this a long time ago in one of our many chats."
And THAT is a reliable source?
I would have to ask all of you who feel that the pageants are something bad if you also think that ballet classes, sports participation, talent shows, etc are also a bad thing to allow children to do. My little girl just turned 4. She was so excited because she got to start dance classes on Tuesday. Its all she can talk about. We've already gone out to buy her dance outfit (leotard, ballet shoes, tap shoes, tights,etc). She will be in a recital in June and I know she'll be wearing some kind of costume with sequins and such on it and doing a dance. Will this adversely affect her? I already put makeup on her sometimes because she asks me to. I even let her wear makeup in our family Christmas portraits. Seh is a beautiful child (and I'mt not just saying it because she is mine, I've had many people tell me she should model) and doesn't need makeup to be prettier. But she wanted some and I was wearing it. So I put a little lipstick and a sparkly blush on her. She was quite happy about it. She has all kinds of dress up clothes that are meant to be worn over clothes because you can see right through them, but she doesn't. And I let her. She also wants to learn to be a belly dancer because she saw one at Disneyworld and was completely fascinated by her. She got up on the stage and danced with the belly dancer.
Now, if it is the competition that is the problem, rather than the dressing up, then you must have issues with sports too. I was a competitive swimmer. I started when I was 5 and swam through college. Was it wrong of my parents to start me that young? I don't think so. It is something I enjoyed doing for 17 years! And you know what, speed in the water hasn't helped me one bit in my career. But the confidence it gave me sure has.
It just makes me so mad to see all these people say that Patsy and other pageant moms are bad mothers because they participated in the pageants. To me it is a nice family activity. The moms are involved in their children's lives. That's a good thing. And before you say, but hey, Patsy dyed JonBenet's hair, take a look at the Jury Room typical websleuther dye job thread. More than 1/2 of us dye our hair. Yes we are adults and can make that decision ourselves. But, if you look at my post there, you'll see that from my swimming and being outside a lot, my hair was blonde until I stopped swimming all the time when it grew in dark. I can beleive that JonBenet's blonde hair was due to sun and maybe a little help along with lemon juice or "Sun In."