Basic Questions

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Brefie, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. Brefie

    Brefie New Member

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    Hi all.
    Let me start by saying that I love reading here and I think you all are very intelligent and well informed about this case.
    I, however, am not so up to speed, but hope to be soon.
    I hope no one minds that I started a thread, but I didn't want to hi jack another one and get off topic.
    I wanted to start this thread to ask more basic questions about the things that you all are discussing in great detail that I (and perhaps others) can't really follow.
    I wondered if you all would be so kind as to fill me in on certain points???

    I would like to start with the Stine family. What is their deal?
    Why do you all think they are suspiscious?

    Thank you all in advance!
     
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  3. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    THE STINE FAMILY:

    Glen and Susan Stine became the chief supporters of the Ramseys after the murder of JonBenet, to the point where Susan was called 'Patsy's pit bull". They were good friends prior to that, but became glued together following the death of JonBenet. Also, Burke Ramsey and Doug Stine were best friends.

    The Stines were the last people to the see the Ramseys when the Ramseys stopped by the Stine's to drop off a gift on their way home from the White's dinner party. Although the Ramseys called a group of close friends the next morning when it was believed JonBenet had been kidnapped, the Stines suspiciously were not called.

    About one month after the murder the three Ramseys -- John, Patsy and Burke -- and Patsy's parents -- Don and Nedra Paugh -- moved in with the Stines in their one-family house. Already living there were the three Stines and Nathan Inouye, the Stines teenaged college student caregiver for Doug. The Ramseys lived with the Stines in those tight quarters for five months.

    During that period neither the press nor anyone else got to the Ramseys or the two boys. Susan Stine soon became known as "the gatekeeper".

    After John lost his job at Access Graphics in Boulder and moved to Atlanta, the Stines quit their high-level positions at Colorado University, sold their house, and followed the Ramseys to Atlanta.

    JMO
     
  4. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    (While Iwas typing this, BC beat me to the punch...but I'll go ahead and post this without deleting the portions BC already mentioned.)

    Although the Stines' son Doug was about Burke Ramsey's age and the two were friends, Susan and Glen Stine were not close friends of John and Patsy's until after JonBenet died. Then suddenly they became very close, and the Ramseys lived with them until moving to Atlanta. During the Ramseys' stay at the Stines', Susan became very protective of Patsy, and was given the nickname "Patsy's pitbull" by reporters.

    One thing in particular that makes me raise an eyebrow regarding the Stines is that when Burke returned to school after JonBenet's death, Susan drove Doug and Burke to school every day (and maybe home afterward) without any kind of protection or security device in her vehicle. She (and apparently Glen) didn't appear to be worried that the killer/s could come after Burke and attack them.

    Susan Stine is a little odd (LOL...understatement of the day). Here's a Rocky Mountain News article about Susan sending emails to various people connected to the case while pretending to be BPD Chief Mark Beckner.

    For your additional reading pleasure, here's an article that includes a description of one of Susan Stine's "pranks" in which she swiped a reporter's wallet at her door and called the police on him, claiming he was an intruder...and of Glen Stine and John Ramsey chasing a reporter down the street and into a restaurant, where he hid from them in the kitchen. (John also once had an altercation with the author of the article, Boulderite Frank Coffman, a.k.a. "Masked Man," who used to post at WS regularly years ago.)
    http://www.acandyrose.com/02291999feedingfrenzy-bw.htm

    I don't know how familiar you are with the other case players, but here's a link to a page that will give you a basic idea of who's who.
    http://www.acandyrose.com/02291999feedingfrenzy-bw.htm
     
  5. TLynn

    TLynn New Member

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    Where are the Stines now? Did they follow the Ramseys to Michigan?
     
  6. Toth

    Toth Inactive

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    During the time they were living in the Stines house and she earned the moniker "gatekeeper" or "pit bull", the Ramseys were under media seige and the house subjected to close and also telephoto surveillance.

    The Stines felt motivated to perform what they felt was a duty to aid someone so beseiged by the media and subjected to such horrible and false accusations and innuendo by police and tabloids. The fact that a pre-existing friendship existed, seems unimportant to me. Susan Stine rose to the occasion when Patsy was so massively over-medicated and so emotionally overwrought that she literally could not get to the bathroom unassisted. She felt it was her duty to help the Ramseys and her husband agreed with her.
     
  7. BrotherMoon

    BrotherMoon Former Member

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    The Stine's were the Ramsey's easy targets, having dumbed down enough to succeed in Boulder's culture. A high level position At CU is achieved by rolling over and rolling up. The Stines got trashed by white trash. Send your kids to CU. rah!
     
  8. Brefie

    Brefie New Member

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    Thank you all so much!! Lots a reading for me to do.

    I really appreciate this, thanks again.
     
  9. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    I've been wondering the same thing, TLynn. I suppose it's possible that after Susan Stine impersonated Beckner and created a scandal, the Ramseys distanced themselves from the Stines to avoid a guilt-by-association perception by the public. On the other hand, if the Stines know things that could implicate the Ramseys in JonBenet's death, I would think the Ramseys would want to stay on good terms with them, and maybe keep them close by to make sure their friendship didn't fizzle out.

    Thing is, if the Stines move to Michigan, or have already, how will we find out? I doubt the media will care enough to report it.

    imo
     
  10. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    If Doug or Nathan was the fifth person in the house on the night of the murder, then the Ramseys and the Stines are not going to be parting ways.

    JMO.
     
  11. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    Right on, BlueCrab--that is, regarding Doug. If only Nathan was there, and not Doug, why would the Stines help cover that up?

    imo
     
  12. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    What bothers me is that the Stines allowed the Ramseys to move in...being that there was a killer on the loose. Didn't the Stines worry about Doug at all? What if this "intruder" came back and tried to harm Burke or perhaps even Doug?

    I do not know why the Ramseys did not return to the Fernies but instead decided to stay with the Stines. Do you suppose that the Fernies were afraid of their childrens safety...or were they becoming suspicious of the Ramseys?

    Either way I would definately not allow the Ramseys in my home if I had young children who might get into harms way.

    IMO
     
  13. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    There is something more going on with the Stines besides just friendship. Steve Thomas said in chat that they weren't close friends before the crime:
    THOMAS: "In my opinion, the Stine's didnt really become close friends until after this tragedy. I found nothing indicating they were in the Ramsey's close circle before Christmas, although they were acquainted and on freindly terms. "

    5-months is a long time to intrude on someone's home. Especially when the Ramseys had the means to rent any number of furnished places to live or move into an extended-stay hotel.
    And the Stines quiting their jobs to follow the Ramseys to Atlanta is another very strange situation.

    My guess is either Susan Stine is bi-sexual and is in love with Patsy, or as BlueCrab suggests, the Stines are somehow connected to the crime via Doug. Perhaps Susan Stine should have been refered to as Patsy's "bull dyke" instead of her "bull dog".
     
  14. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    If either Nathan or Doug (or both) was the fifth person in the Ramsey's house that night (if there was a fifth person) it would loom as trouble for both the Ramseys and the Stines. Nathan spent time watching both boys and JonBenet, including while their parents were out of town.

    For instance, on December 6 the Stines and the Ramseys were in New York while Nedra and Nathan watched the three children. JonBenet was riding in a car in a parade that night as the children watched. Both sets of parents were over 2,000 miles away.

    The sexual aspects of JonBenet's murder would suck in the Stines and the Ramseys if either Nathan or Doug were involved. Doug and Burke were best friends and they lived just six blocks from one another. If Nathan was involved he would have likely been the architect of the EA device wrapped around JonBenet's neck. Those kind of masturbation devices are most popular in that age group (teens and early twenties).

    Of course, Doug could also have been the builder of the EA contraption. Doug and Burke sailed together so they both would have been familiar with the knots used in the murder.

    JMO
     
  15. LovelyPigeon

    LovelyPigeon Former Member

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    I don't think the Stines are suspicious at all. They were friends with the Ramseys before JonBenét's murder and became closer friends after her death.

    Susan Stine has been a staunch defender of the Ramseys' innocence, and a close friend to Patsy.
     
  16. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    From page 50 of John's October 20th 1998 deposition in the Miles v Ramsey and the National Enquirer defamation lawsuit.

    13 Q. Do you have anyone running interference for you


    14 with respect to social contacts or attempts? Anyone


    15 taking calls or screening calls?


    16 A. Not -- we did for a while, only because we lived


    17 with some people.


    18 Q. Who were those people?


    19 A. Susan and Glenn Stine.


    20 Q. Should I add them to your list of close friends?


    21 A. They were not close friends, believe it or not.


    22 They were friends, but we didn't socialize a lot with


    23 them.


    http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/2000/0206deposition.html

    John wouldn't have mentioned the Stines at all had he not been asked if anyone was running interference for him and Patsy. Even when pressed earlier in the depostion to name people who weren't close friends but whom he considered to have been social acquaintances on a friendly basis, HE DIDN'T NAME THE STINES.

    imo
     
  17. BlueCrab

    BlueCrab New Member

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    Even though the four of them -- John, Patsy, Glen, and Susan -- were living it up together in New York while their children were back home in Boulder and at the same time while JonBenet was in a Christmas parade on December 6. And the Ramseys stopped by the Stines house to drop off a Christmas present on Christmas night, etc.

    John was obviously lying under oath during that deposition about the Stines being friends. WHY?

    JMO
     
  18. Shylock

    Shylock Former Member

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    It's too bad LHP was never asked how often Burke and Doug played together.
     
  19. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    John and Barbara Fernie were...

    Friends of the Ramseys who were present in the home the morning of the 26th when police arrived. John Fernie was in the basement when John Ramsey found the body. (Hey, I thought John Fernie was upstairs when John found the body.) The Ramseys stayed with the Fernies for several days after the murder. Fellow parishioners of St. John's Episcopal Church, they can be seen in a video physically supporting the Ramseys as they exited the church in early January. Barbara, who believed in the Ramseys initially, reportedly began to doubt Patsy's innocence and was dropped by the Ramseys. John Fernie, a developer, at last report was still friendly with John Ramsey.

    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer/primer1_fam.html

    If it's true that Barbara Fernie began to doubt Patsy's innocence, maybe that explains why the Ramseys stayed at the Fernies' for only a short time.

    IMO
     
  20. Brefie

    Brefie New Member

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    Hi all. Thanks again for all of your input. Now fora nother question....

    I have read something about Fleet White being jailed for something to do with another case (Miller, perhaps?). What's all that about? The case and the reason for jailing.
     
  21. BrotherMoon

    BrotherMoon Former Member

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    Please retitle your thread "Dull questions", thank you.
     

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