"BC is innocent" or "I'm not convinced yet" Discussion

[reddress58]

That was a bit uncalled for.....

I am not unsympathetic in the least. But based on my own experience of being controlled by a sociopath....I don't see anything about NC that would suggest that she lived in the shadows of an abuser. That is JMO. I have said it before and I will say it again, I could be wrong! Just like you could be....

Well I see that she's DEAD. That's pretty strong evidence to me.

 

[RKAB]

Perhaps you don't care to state it here or maybe you already have and I have forgotten, how long did your relationship with BC span? Months, years?

I don't care to state exact time frame or time span in an effort to maintain some anonymity but I will say it was long-term, well past the point where you'e counting "months".

 

[rwesafe]

Well I see that she's DEAD. That's pretty strong evidence to me.

Geez.

 

[rwesafe]

I don't care to state exact time frame or time span in an effort to maintain some anonymity but I will say it was long-term, well past the point where you'e counting "months".

I understand. Would you say that his manipulative behavior and pouting was apparent early on in the relationship?

 

[maconrich]

That is so so true...there are people who graduated high school and university with Brad who think there's no way that he could have done this because he's such a "great guy". When I read one of the comments in our hometown newspaper from his classmate in high school, about how he's such a nice person, I was reminded of just how little people outside a circle can really know about a person. Those people inside a circle can see and have seen past the camouflage.

I totally agree and tend to think there are many who work with him and/or went to school with him at NCSU who feel exactly like those from his hometown!!

I've wondered if he had any idea that Nancy was keeping her friends filled in on their relationship and have pretty much decided he didn't (or things would have exploded long before they did). He had to have been stunned, outraged and maybe more than a little humiliated when he realized how much they knew! (although I'm certain he'll deny and/or talk/turn around every single thing)

Hopefully her journal will help confirm what she'd said and let her 'voice' be heard loud and clear...

 

[Star12]

Abusers, controlers can be very, very charming. Charm is part of the control. They are out to get what they want, so they put on the face to get just that. No man is going to say, Hi, my name is XXXX and I am an abuser (or a potential abuser). So the victim often no ho idea when she is getting into a relationship that she is seeing an abuser. After a time, after the "honeymoon" phase, eventually the abuse will start. In this case we have no idea when it started, if in Canada, in the US, after Bella's birth, or after Katie's but let me tell you, many many women stay in the relationship because of the abuser's lies, the confusion they elicit, because of financial reasons, and because of the children.

The abuser will tell his victim that no one else will want her, how pitiful she is, how she can't make it without him, how incompetent she is, that she is crazy. Then they go into the honeymoon phase, apologize, send flowers, pay attention to her, and so forth. Everything will be fine and rosy for a while, and then the cycle begins again. The abuse can start out to be just verbal, emotional, and either go no farther, or it can progress to physical abuse, even to death. Once a taboo such as slapping or hitting is broken, it is easier and easier for the abuser to move on to the next taboo, and break that one.

The victim could be a SAHM with no financial resources of her own, and feels she is unablke to support herself and her children, couldn't afford a divorce attorney. And the abuser will convince her that he has the resources and she will never get the children. But we do know that Nancy wanted to get a divorce from BC.

 

[RKAB]

....I don't see anything about NC that would suggest that she lived in the shadows of an abuser...

Alot of my close friends and family had no idea that I was living with an abusive husband either(this was post-Brad). And in suffering both emotional and physical abuse, you would think someone would have seen it. I left the house when I wanted, worked, had a social life, went to parties, went to the bar, etc. etc. as well. It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I had lots of opportunities to leave the situation and for various reasons, didn't, for quite sometime. You can live in the shadow of an abuser and have even those close to you not be aware of it.

I'm sure you had friends and family that were unaware of your own situation as you were living it as well.

 

[RKAB]

I understand. Would you say that his manipulative behavior and pouting was apparent early on in the relationship?

Absolutely, within the first few months. I had thought he would be happy with me and our relationship and that it would just go away or subside when he realized what a great relationship we could have. So naive.

 

[Anderson]

That was a bit uncalled for.....

I am not unsympathetic in the least. But based on my own experience of being controlled by a sociopath....I don't see anything about NC that would suggest that she lived in the shadows of an abuser. That is JMO. I have said it before and I will say it again, I could be wrong! Just like you could be....

Most posts on the board are speculative. Perhaps I did not make the best word choice by using sympathy. I simply meant that you may have a shared understanding of this experience with NC, IF she was abused . You would understand how easy it is to get into a relationship with an abusive person and also how difficult it is to leave etc. I gather that you were able to find resources to help you out of your previous situation. I thought that you may have gained expertise through this experience which may allow you to understand how abusive relationships evolve.

BTW, you don't sound like a push over either.

 

[reddress58]

Alot of my close friends and family had no idea that I was living with an abusive husband either(this was post-Brad). And in suffering both emotional and physical abuse, you would think someone would have seen it. I left the house when I wanted, worked, had a social life, went to parties, went to the bar, etc. etc. as well. It doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I had lots of opportunities to leave the situation and for various reasons, didn't, for quite sometime. You can live in the shadow of an abuser and have even those close to you not be aware of it.

I'm sure you had friends and family that were unaware of your own situation as you were living it as well.

Wow, RKAB. I'm sorry you had to suffer twice. I do hope you've finally found a nice man to spend your life with. You really seem like such a good person!

 

[RKAB]

Wow, RKAB. I'm sorry you had to suffer twice. I do hope you've finally found a nice man to spend your life with. You really seem like such a good person!

Thanks. I just made really poor relationship choices. Took a huge break after my 1st husband and made better choices after. People who know me can't believe I have endured what I have because I am a strong person. But abuse can happen, sadly, to anyone...even strong people.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I'm so glad you escaped from your abusive situation(s) and are alive, well, and healed!

 

[rwesafe]

Most posts on the board are speculative. Perhaps I did not make the best word choice by using sympathy. I simply meant that you may have a shared understanding of this experience with NC, IF she was abused . You would understand how easy it is to get into a relationship with an abusive person and also how difficult it is to leave etc. I gather that you were able to find resources to help you out of your previous situation. I thought that you may have gained expertise through this experience which may allow you to understand how abusive relationships evolve.

BTW, you don't sound like a push over either.

Well, thank you. I am indeed, not a pushover and that is what allowed me to get away from my abuser. But it was a different level of control. My name was not on any of the bank accounts, the house was not in my name, I was not allowed to have credit cards or friends of my own. Fortunately, his behavior revealed itself on the honeymoon. I was very trapped and because he was violent, when he said he would kill me or my family if I spoke ill of him, I believed him. It took me six very long years of learning how to manipulate my abuser in order to secure my eventual freedom without harm to myself or family. I too work in the medical field and by what I to this day call, a divine intervention, I was introduced to a lady pyschologist who proved to be my on earth savior. I got lucky. I know that NC did not. But I'm just not convinced from what I read, it was at the hands of an abusive husband, but I will state it again....I COULD BE WRONG.

 

[reddress58]

Abusers, controlers can be very, very charming. Charm is part of the control. They are out to get what they want, so they put on the face to get just that. No man is going to say, Hi, my name is XXXX and I am an abuser (or a potential abuser). So the victim often no ho idea when she is getting into a relationship that she is seeing an abuser. After a time, after the "honeymoon" phase, eventually the abuse will start. In this case we have no idea when it started, if in Canada, in the US, after Bella's birth, or after Katie's but let me tell you, many many women stay in the relationship because of the abuser's lies, the confusion they elicit, because of financial reasons, and because of the children.

The abuser will tell his victim that no one else will want her, how pitiful she is, how she can't make it without him, how incompetent she is, that she is crazy. Then they go into the honeymoon phase, apologize, send flowers, pay attention to her, and so forth. Everything will be fine and rosy for a while, and then the cycle begins again. The abuse can start out to be just verbal, emotional, and either go no farther, or it can progress to physical abuse, even to death. Once a taboo such as slapping or hitting is broken, it is easier and easier for the abuser to move on to the next taboo, and break that one.

The victim could be a SAHM with no financial resources of her own, and feels she is unablke to support herself and her children, couldn't afford a divorce attorney. And the abuser will convince her that he has the resources and she will never get the children. But we do know that Nancy wanted to get a divorce from BC.

Thanks, Star, for bringing the definition back for reference to our discussion.

These seem to be good general guidelines to follow in determining whether one is abusive or not. I think we can all agree that each victim of abuse has a unique story, and each abuser may show abusive behavior in differing degrees. What we know is Nancy complained to her friends that her husband was abusive. Regardless if we feel his behavior matches our definition of 'abuse', we do know that she was murdered and he was the last to see her. For me anyway, makes me believe she was abused.

ETA: ...and that is relying very heavily on my 'Hinky Meter'.

 

[jmflu]

Well I see that she's DEAD. That's pretty strong evidence to me.

OUCH! Reddress!! :clap:

 

[jmflu]

WOW... Did you start typing this yesterday?!

Very impressive! Thank you!

I take this back. I was initially impressed by the length and skimmed over it. When I went back, I was not impressed with your sarcasm. I think you could have listed points without it.

 

[reddress58]

OUCH! Reddress!! :clap:

Everything I know I've learned from FRAN.

 

[jmflu]

That is so so true...there are people who graduated high school and university with Brad who think there's no way that he could have done this because he's such a "great guy". When I read one of the comments in our hometown newspaper from his classmate in high school, about how he's such a nice person, I was reminded of just how little people outside a circle can really know about a person. Those people inside a circle can see and have seen past the camouflage.

Yes, my mother was always marveling that when she and Dad broke up, people were SHOCKED. They thought they were the perfect couple... him so nice and handsome...

 

[jmflu]

Abusers, controlers can be very, very charming. Charm is part of the control.

Exactly what Mom said about Dad!

 

[jmflu]

most posts on the board are speculative. Perhaps i did not make the best word choice by using sympathy. I simply meant that you may have a shared understanding of this experience with nc, if she was abused . You would understand how easy it is to get into a relationship with an abusive person and also how difficult it is to leave etc. I gather that you were able to find resources to help you out of your previous situation. I thought that you may have gained expertise through this experience which may allow you to understand how abusive relationships evolve.

Btw, you don't sound like a push over either.

very good point.