Benjaman Kyle Statement from Owner of Websleuths.com

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Do I think BK wants WS help?

No.

I agree.

We have members here with missing or murdered family members, some cold for 10, 20, 30 years and longer, who simply come here to bump their family members threads - even when there is nothing new to discuss about the case so they are not forgotten. Their actions and behavior here at WS is in complete contrast with Benjaman Kyles actions and involvement to finding his identity.

JMO
 
Yes, people like the Anna Waters disappearance and the Deanna Merryfield disappearance. Both have family members here who are legitimately looking for answers to the disappearance of their loved ones; Anna for almost 38 yrs, and Deanna for 20 years this July. We could certainly use some new eyes and ideas on these cases and many more!

I agree.

We have members here with missing or murdered family members, some cold for 10, 20, 30 years and longer, who simply come here to bump their family members threads - even when there is nothing new to discuss about the case so they are not forgotten. Their actions and behavior here at WS is in complete contrast with Benjaman Kyles actions and involvement to finding his identity.

JMO
 
BBM. My first bold. Yes, you are somewhat correct with this point, however painting a victim in a not so favorable light should only be done when and where it is relevent to the case. I think our mistake in BK's case was we definately overlooked certain aspects very RELEVENT to the case when it came to being victim friendly. We need to use this case as an example of where that fine line exists. A lesson learned I hope.

As for your second point. 99% of the possible matches which were eliminated were done so with very good reason. The people were definately not BK. Hence looking back over each and every one is not necessary. I think, a better way of phrasing it is for those who wish to continue to seek BK's identity, should Tricia decide to keep that avenue open here at WS, is to consider ALL aspects of who Mr. Kyle might be.. whether it be that he does in fact have amnesia, knows who he is but does not wish to identify himself because of his background... There can be no tunnel vision with the possibilities. No stone left unturned, what ever might come up from the ground kind of thing.......

(bold by me) Thank you for clarifying. Yes, I agree.

I guess I should have clarified that I was talking about anyone who was eliminated because of information received by BK or NB....eliminated because they didn't have a scar on their elbow when they went missing, eliminated because BK doesn't have a scar on his little toe, eliminated because NB said it wasn't him, eliminated because they went missing several years before BK was found, eliminated because the nose is a bit off (do we know for a fact he hasn't had rhinoplasty?), eliminated because he parts his hair on the opposite side, eliminated because they don't look enough like the age regression sketch, eliminated because an email was received from a "family member" stating it was not a match (unless that family member can be verified authentic), eliminated because when they went missing they only weighed x amount and when BK was found he weighed y amount, etc. (these are just hypothetical examples but I am sure you know what I mean) On all of those possible matches everything that was once assumed to be fact (aside from what can be verified) should be forgotten. I guess it would be appropriate to say "starting from scratch AGAIN".
 
The majority of what you suggested has been done Voice'. I don't think anyone actually eliminated someone based solely on how they parted their hair. My reasoning for comments on that is Mr. Kyle is not exactly trendy with his hair style and logic tells us he has worn his hair in a similiar style for quite some time.... most likely, but certainly not 100% on the side he wears it now.

My understanding was and remains there were more certain possibilities or backgrounds NB and BK were trying to 'hide' or avoid for lack of a better word, such as the leads that came in from the flier which were prior known transients and homeless persons.

I don't believe for example NB and BK would keep a known scar hidden, such as the toes. ( which by the way that potential match had brown eyes so an automatic rule out there. ). Some were eliminated because they were born in the 60's, or other very obvious reasons. Some were eliminated because it was verified a family member had spoken with them within the last 6 months.

The problem as I see it, is if there is no cooperation from anyone in BK's camp, then what happens to any leads uncovered here at WS if people continue to sleuth his identity? Kentjbkent said it early on.... paraphrasing. We could hand BK his identity on a silver platter if we found it. Doesn't mean he will do anything with it.......

JMO
 
Bolded by me.

I agree, I also think this may have happened already awhile back.

The majority of what you suggested has been done Voice'. I don't think anyone actually eliminated someone based solely on how they parted their hair. My reasoning for comments on that is Mr. Kyle is not exactly trendy with his hair style and logic tells us he has worn his hair in a similiar style for quite some time.... most likely, but certainly not 100% on the side he wears it now.

My understanding was and remains there were more certain possibilities or backgrounds NB and BK were trying to 'hide' or avoid for lack of a better word, such as the leads that came in from the flier which were prior known transients and homeless persons.

I don't believe for example NB and BK would keep a known scar hidden, such as the toes. ( which by the way that potential match had brown eyes so an automatic rule out there. ). Some were eliminated because they were born in the 60's, or other very obvious reasons. Some were eliminated because it was verified a family member had spoken with them within the last 6 months.

The problem as I see it, is if there is no cooperation from anyone in BK's camp, then what happens to any leads uncovered here at WS if people continue to sleuth his identity? Kentjbkent said it early on.... paraphrasing. We could hand BK his identity on a silver platter if we found it. Doesn't mean he will do anything with it.......
JMO
 
The majority of what you suggested has been done Voice'. I don't think anyone actually eliminated someone based solely on how they parted their hair. My reasoning for comments on that is Mr. Kyle is not exactly trendy with his hair style and logic tells us he has worn his hair in a similiar style for quite some time.... most likely, but certainly not 100% on the side he wears it now.

My understanding was and remains there were more certain possibilities or backgrounds NB and BK were trying to 'hide' or avoid for lack of a better word, such as the leads that came in from the flier which were prior known transients and homeless persons.

I don't believe for example NB and BK would keep a known scar hidden, such as the toes. ( which by the way that potential match had brown eyes so an automatic rule out there. ). Some were eliminated because they were born in the 60's, or other very obvious reasons. Some were eliminated because it was verified a family member had spoken with them within the last 6 months.

The problem as I see it, is if there is no cooperation from anyone in BK's camp, then what happens to any leads uncovered here at WS if people continue to sleuth his identity? Kentjbkent said it early on.... paraphrasing. We could hand BK his identity on a silver platter if we found it. Doesn't mean he will do anything with it.......

JMO

Yes, I was not saying anyone was eliminated because of the way they part their hair, which is why I specifically stated those were ALL hypothetical examples.

If someone doesn't really want to be found, but wants people to think they do, why not part their hair on the other side of their head, pop in some colored contact lenses, get some rhinoplasty and maybe even their relatives looking for them won't recognize them. Again, just an example, I am not saying I think that is what he did. People do some really messed up things. Who knows???

Also, perhaps they wouldn't hide a scar....but do we know for sure? In my opinion, nothing should be eliminated based on information (ANY information) given by BK and/or NB.

We are going around in circles with your examples. None of which pertain to what I wrote.

Yes, I also agree that ALL angles need to be explored (especially the homeless one BK didn't want us to explore.) These angles should have been explored the first time around. We had a guy stating he didn't remember anything but pickled eggs and grits (again I am exagerating for effect....feel I need to clarify that) and people weren't willing to explore all the angles because he knew for a fact he wasn't homeless. :waitasec:

I think the people who want to help in the search to identify BK are split, half still think he wants us to find out his identity so they want to continue to help him, the other half just want to know for themselves who this guy is.
 
Anyone is free of course to think as they like, but either Dream or Jules or both of them said that Juan Doe was 100% cooperative in answering questions, and we know BK was not. IMO, BK didn't want to touch any questions that would help id him, and to me that says it all. So either he was lying or else he's an amnesiac that didn't want to know who he was. But decency would say to tell the kind people who wanted to help you, that you didn't want their help, and if he didn't want help, then why in the heck did he go on the Dr. Phil Show? His actions do not add up to that of an honest person IMO.

If I recall, Juan Doe was found in June 2009 and by October of 2009 he had been identified. It took 3 years before BK's story even got out. I think I would be frustrated by that time also.

Then we look at Juan Doe and his memories. He had quite a few false memories and had more time gone by before he was identified he may have had more false memories surface.

For example:

I, myself, can see why there would be inconsistencies in Benjaman's stories.

I am still not ready to write BK off as a total fraud. I reserve the right to change my mind at any time. For now, I am still in his corner.
 
believe09 vetted all the leads she got not only through BK and NB, but also through the FBI.
You know,I think that this what bothered me most. The only vetting of leads, was NB and BK and the team. I am pretty sure I asked this question one time, about who was really doing this and the answer was NB and BK. I guess I thought for a long time that LE had determined he was suffering from Amnesia, and that they, LE, were trying to determine his identity. I don't know, something was just always off. And now, I am left to wonder if Websleuthers found his real identity early on, or even not so early on, and he is the one who said it wasn't him.

I will join the chorus of those who doubted and I know for me, I saw others shot down, so I didn't say anything. I realize we are a victim friendly forum, and for the most part, that is right and I think it works well. But, I do wonder if sometimes that keeps the truth from coming out. I know in the future when I get a strong hinky reading on something, even if I don't bring it up in a thread, I will go to a moderator with my feelings.

I have wondered what the motive and I really didn't realize until this weekend that there was what - a 2 year gap between his being found and the beginning of the search. I do think after all I have read, I think Kentjbkent hit it when he said something about the possibility of a lawsuit.

I do hope we can continue trying to find out who he is. As many have said, there are those wanted that might not have prints or DNA on file.
 
At this point, I don't think BK wants us to find out his identity. Maybe he's in the process of gathering his thoughts and working on a written statement to explain himself, but somehow I doubt that too.

The more I think about it, the more BK's responses on this forum provide an insight into his lack of desire for us to help. I wonder why he even came on here in the first place. He seemed so uncooperative and evasive, yet he knew we would be asking all kinds of questions as soon as he signed up.

He remembers pickled eggs, grits, oatmeal soup, specific restaurants and grocery stores, a brand of cigarettes, the state fair, the library, a food service publication, debate about a public transit system, falling off a loading dock, his exact birthday, Catholic school, having three brothers, the railroad tracks in Richmond Hill, and so many other things... yet he doesn't remember a single name of any family member or friend, address, phone number, employer, residence, car, or anything personal enough to generate a lead. But he definitely wasn't homeless. :waitasec:

I think regardless of whether he is a fraud or not, we have no way of knowing if he has concerned friends or family members out there somewhere. We don't know if he's done something horrible or he's potentially dangerous. These are my main reasons for wanting to continue the search for his identity.
 
Yes, I was not saying anyone was eliminated because of the way they part their hair, which is why I specifically stated those were ALL hypothetical examples.

If someone doesn't really want to be found, but wants people to think they do, why not part their hair on the other side of their head, pop in some colored contact lenses, get some rhinoplasty and maybe even their relatives looking for them won't recognize them. Again, just an example, I am not saying I think that is what he did. People do some really messed up things. Who knows???

Also, perhaps they wouldn't hide a scar....but do we know for sure? In my opinion, nothing should be eliminated based on information (ANY information) given by BK and/or NB.

We are going around in circles with your examples. None of which pertain to what I wrote.

Yes, I also agree that ALL angles need to be explored (especially the homeless one BK didn't want us to explore.) These angles should have been explored the first time around. We had a guy stating he didn't remember anything but pickled eggs and grits (again I am exagerating for effect....feel I need to clarify that) and people weren't willing to explore all the angles because he knew for a fact he wasn't homeless. :waitasec:

I think the people who want to help in the search to identify BK are split, half still think he wants us to find out his identity so they want to continue to help him, the other half just want to know for themselves who this guy is.


BBM, could you explain? I thought I was presenting logical answers and reasons why I didn't believe BK or NB would basically 'parade' BK out there to identify if they didn't have something to gain and lie about key identification factors such as the teeth and scars? I mean, they very well could be lying about the dating of the scars....Hence, I think they want to id him, but am unsure of their true motives. My thoughts, are they want to 'horde' any and all info relating to BK or promote whatever their ulterior motives are, but that is simply my opinion. And a reason why I personally believe sleuthing BK at WS is a waste of time, but I am not to say what others should do or how they should spend their time. It is simply my opinion.

ETA: I get the impression while it is apparent NB and BK want to 'horde' information the thought is there are those of us at WS which wish to 'horde' information too. If that is the thought in anyones mind, I will say first hand that is not true, and not something we do here at WS. There is no reason for it. If anyone is hording info, it is NB and BK - which again points to their LACK OF INTEREST in any help offered from WS.
 
IMO. WS is a 'crutch' for NB and BK.... something to use for say numbers and interest kind of thing, to 'promote' their story - A commercial or 'free advertising' so to speak. Hey look at how much attention we've ( meaning NB and BK) have generated. Let's toss them (WS'rs) a bone from time to time to retain their interest but nothing more.... They only have interest in the key core group being the ones to identify BK. It is clear as day imo based on their participation since BK's story was made public three years ago.

Unpopular opinion? Could be, but I am entitled to mine, as harsh as it may be. Once Tricia makes a decision either way, outside of any moderating duties, I am 110% finished with doing any sleuthing on BK's identity. There are too many cases at WS begging for 10 minutes of someone's time than for me to spend another 30 seconds sleuthing BK.

JMO
 
BBM, could you explain? I thought I was presenting logical answers and reasons why I didn't believe BK or NB would basically 'parade' BK out there to identify if they didn't have something to gain and lie about key identification factors such as the teeth and scars? I mean, they very well could be lying about the dating of the scars....Hence, I think they want to id him, but am unsure of their true motives. My thoughts, are they want to 'horde' any and all info relating to BK or promote whatever their ulterior motives are, but that is simply my opinion. And a reason why I personally believe sleuthing BK at WS is a waste of time, but I am not to say what others should do or how they should spend their time. It is simply my opinion.

ETA: I get the impression while it is apparent NB and BK want to 'horde' information the thought is there are those of us at WS which wish to 'horde' information too. If that is the thought in anyones mind, I will say first hand that is not true, and not something we do here at WS. There is no reason for it. If anyone is hording info, it is NB and BK - which again points to their LACK OF INTEREST in any help offered from WS.

Absolutely! "Some were eliminated because they were born in the 60's, or other very obvious reasons. Some were eliminated because it was verified a family member had spoken with them within the last 6 months."....yes, none of the above examples were included in my list of anyone that would need to be re-verified as not being a viable match. I specifically stated that the ones I think need to be reverified would be ones that DIDN'T fit into those catagories.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect yours. You may not think that is a possibility they would lie about scars however I don't think that good sleuthing includes eliminating possibilities that can't be eliminated via evidence just because someone doesn't think it could be a possibility. Again, just my opinion.

If by "hording information" you mean that BK and NB are refusing to give us information on his memories, etc. then I absolutely agree with you. Reading back through the numerous threads regarding BK I noticed several people state that they didn't care how much information BK felt comfotable giving, they were going to continue searching for his identity. Those same people (and I am going off of memory here) said they understood why he was withholding information. I guess all of that changed when they realized he was lying or giving half truths (which ever you prefer.)
 
Here is what I understood..

Wesley Cox is the man who had amnesia..he apparently "chose the name James Simmons - James after the bible * Simmons after a store he seen - HOW he ended up with a SS# belonging to James Simmons- I have no clue!
He was then identified, and chose to keep the name James Simmons????

It sounds more likely to me that he first collected the SSN, and then adopted the name that was on it.
 
Anyone is free of course to think as they like, but either Dream or Jules or both of them said that Juan Doe was 100% cooperative in answering questions, and we know BK was not. IMO, BK didn't want to touch any questions that would help id him, and to me that says it all. So either he was lying or else he's an amnesiac that didn't want to know who he was. But decency would say to tell the kind people who wanted to help you, that you didn't want their help, and if he didn't want help, then why in the heck did he go on the Dr. Phil Show? His actions do not add up to that of an honest person IMO.

I did talk with Juan Doe a a couple of times.
He had been interviewed by the police, by the hospital where he was taken, by newspaper reporters, and was under the guidance of a counselor. He had already answered many questions.

I had a list of questions ready to ask him.
He answered each one the best that he could.

He did give me the wrong names of his children, as it turned out.
He did think his mother had been a civil servant or in the military and was deceased.
That was not true.

But the thing is, he wanted to answer and he wanted answers.
He did tell me that he felt he was in the wrong time zone... due to tv shows that he watched.
He did tell me he loved the color bright yellow.
That bright yellow was the color of his car.

He thought the car he had was left in a big parking lot.
It was found at an airport parking area.

He did tell me he really liked Celtic things, music, etc.
He felt that was why he had a celtic tattoo.

He felt he left his hometown because he was depressed and sad
over his own health, and things about his family.
And that was mostly true.

After he was found, his neighbor emailed me and told me
that some of the names he mentioned were people in his life,
but not family names.

The idea is he wanted to find his identity, he wanted to
find his family. He was eager to do whatever he
could to make that happen.

And he did.
 
I was leaning toward having a thread in the Parking Lot for people who wanted to sleuth BK's identity. Then I thought perhaps I could keep a thread open in this forum for sleuthing.

After much thought and meditation, in my opinion, BK does not deserve one more ounce of space on Websleuths.

It is up to you all if you want to continue to sleuth anything about him. I will leave the BK forum out in the public area so you can always use it as reference if you wish.

I will be closing down the BK forum and any BK discussion for good. I hope our members will help and work with people who deserve their attention.

We have so many missing people whose families would welcome just one of you to come on their thread and post. To Offer your help or even just your support.

How dare this man take up your valuable time. No more. Not on my watch and not on my forum.

Please keep in mind I am not stopping anyone from discussing this case. I just do not want the discussion on Websleuths.

There are plenty of free software programs out there for you to either start your own forum on the case or you can join other public forums that will allow you to start a discussion. If you need help finding any of these things let me know and I will be glad to help you.

Since I will be leaving the forum out in the public area you will be able to use it for reference if you wish to continue to work on BK's case.

BK had his chance to come and answer questions and chose not to.

This is terribly discouraging to so many of you but you have so much to offer. Don't let this one person sour you on all missing cases.

Many people around the world need your help right here on Websleuths. I hope you consider posting on their threads and their forums.

This forum will be closed for good later tonight. The only time a discussion will be allowed is if there is a break in the case and new info is discovered by authorities.

Sincerely,
Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com
 
Yes--Dream was the main contact with him. Yes, there were "false" memories there, but it was all in the attitude. He was willing to talk to Dream and even though he did not have all the right answers, he really was forthcoming with any info he could remember or provide. He certainly did not have the attitude (nor did his counselor, right Dream?) that he had answered questions "ad nauseum". And remember, some of the info we received WAS important. He thought he was from TX and that is exactly where I found the missing persons info on him. Dream--I did not realize that you heard from anyone in Juan's camp after he was found. Was this right after or a few mths after? How was he adjusting?

I did talk with Juan Doe a a couple of times.
He had been interviewed by the police, by the hospital where he was taken, by newspaper reporters, and was under the guidance of a counselor. He had already answered many questions.

I had a list of questions ready to ask him.
He answered each one the best that he could.

He did give me the wrong names of his children, as it turned out.
He did think his mother had been a civil servant or in the military and was deceased.
That was not true.

But the thing is, he wanted to answer and he wanted answers.
He did tell me that he felt he was in the wrong time zone... due to tv shows that he watched.
He did tell me he loved the color bright yellow.
That bright yellow was the color of his car.

He thought the car he had was left in a big parking lot.
It was found at an airport parking area.

He did tell me he really liked Celtic things, music, etc.
He felt that was why he had a celtic tattoo.

He felt he left his hometown because he was depressed and sad
over his own health, and things about his family.
And that was mostly true.

After he was found, his neighbor emailed me and told me
that some of the names he mentioned were people in his life,
but not family names.

The idea is he wanted to find his identity, he wanted to
find his family. He was eager to do whatever he
could to make that happen.

And he did.
 
While I do not think that people on this thread are hording information I do think certain people are vague in responses and some just flat out refuse to answer questions addressed to them. For example, a question I have contemplated answering is, "When did Believe09 lose contact with BK and NB?" For awhile information was passed along to BK/NB by Believe and Believe communicating with them. When did that stop and why? (JUST TO CLARIFY...NOT BECAUSE I THINK THERE IS SO CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED OR ALLUDED TO...just out of my own curiosity.) Another would be to ask, ''If the medical records are protected by HIPPA, how were people allowed to view them?" But I do understand it is everyone's prerogative to pick and choose what questions they would like to answer....but it doesn't make me any less curious. I don't know if other people think there are "info horders" on this thread (I can only speak for myself) but I can honestly say I haven't gotten the impression people think that.

respectfully snipped.

Voice, let me make this very clear.

I can't speak for believe, but most of us took the drastic turn to walk from this case when we verified the facts surrounding his story were bogus. It was a matter of days, not weeks or months that things fell into place. Once all the ducks were in a row and verified the information was presented here at WS.

I don't know that believe necessarily -owes- you an answer, or that it is a mandatory requirement that every question asked by a WS'r be answered by another. Participation at WS is and has always been on a voluntary basis. Just because a question is asked does not necessitate or require an answer.



hth -JMO
 
THANK YOU TRICIA!

I think you made an excellent choice as well as the best choice. I appreciate your taking time to consider the best option. Also, thank you for leaving this forum open to view as reference for anyone who wishes to continue on with BK's case outside of WS.

I fully agree on leaving the forum closed unless their is any official news from the authorities.

:clap: :clap:

-Cubby
 
Juan was identified within months of his being found....that was my point. His attitude may have been different had it been years and he still didn't know who he was, where he lived, etc. Did we really expect for BK to sit by his computer corresponding with us all day for months and months? He probably would get depressed sitting and thinking all day about it. I guess we will most likely never know who he really is. The story ends here....So, after nearly 6 years, Benjaman Kyle really is "A Real Live Nobody". That's all they wrote. The End.

As for counselor, I would hardly call Nurse Betty a counselor.

Yes--Dream was the main contact with him. Yes, there were "false" memories there, but it was all in the attitude. He was willing to talk to Dream and even though he did not have all the right answers, he really was forthcoming with any info he could remember or provide. He certainly did not have the attitude (nor did his counselor, right Dream?) that he had answered questions "ad nauseum". And remember, some of the info we received WAS important. He thought he was from TX and that is exactly where I found the missing persons info on him. Dream--I did not realize that you heard from anyone in Juan's camp after he was found. Was this right after or a few mths after? How was he adjusting?
 
Juan was identified within months of his being found....that was my point. His attitude may have been different had it been years and he still didn't know who he was, where he lived, etc. Did we really expect for BK to sit by his computer corresponding with us all day for months and months? He probably would get depressed sitting and thinking all day about it. I guess we will most likely never know who he really is. The story ends here....So, after nearly 6 years, Benjaman Kyle really is "A Real Live Nobody". That's all they wrote. The End.

As for counselor, I would hardly call Nurse Betty a counselor.


I see your point. Though I think the point was Juans cooperation with those trying to help him and that included everyone willing to assist him. No, I would not call Nurse Betty a counselor. But anyone is free to ask BK if he has ever worked with or cooperated with a counselor.........

It was never said BK's story ends at WS. Discussion and continued sleuthing on his case ends at WS. There are a million and one other places on the net to continue BK's story... and sleuthing..... Tricia even offered to help or assist anyone needing guidance on starting up a forum or direction on finding a forum elsewhere. Hardly slamming the door imo Plus this discusssion was left open for several days, what 5 or so now? And BK had plenty of opportunity to make contact and communicate any misunderstandings or straighten up / provide proof of the facts. His free choice not to. She made the best decision for her forum for ALL of WS, not just this part of WS.

JMO
 
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