Blood Spatter on the RAV 4 Door

Discussion in 'Netflix Series: Making A Murderer' started by MysticJynx, Jan 18, 2016.

  1. MysticJynx

    MysticJynx Just Sayin'

    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    This is the picture I am curious about. Is this not blood splatter on her Rav4 door. If they just placed her in the car for a moment to explain her bloody hair on the passengers side back cargo panel, then how do they explain how the splatter gets on that door? Does this mean that the door was opened and the attack happened close by to that open door?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Loading...


  3. Sinsaint

    Sinsaint New Member

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Based on my experience and training with Tom Bevel, those stains would have occurred while the victim was standing, or at least the point of impact was level if not higher than the stains. Note to "lip" towards the bottom half of the photo. Blood landed on the flat part of the lip. That could only happen if the source of the blood was above the lip. Other staining indicates the blood hit at a higher point and ran downwards. All indications are that the wound that caused this spatter occurred while the victim (wound area) was above this area.
     
  4. missy1974

    missy1974 Active Member

    Messages:
    4,071
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1nzus-fCQcoTlZFazNLdzQ1V2c/view

    this looks like the lab report that tested those stains. A2/A3/A4? I have read the report and I don't see anything that says it was even a DNA match to TH. Weird. Maybe there is something missing.... ?
     
  5. MysticJynx

    MysticJynx Just Sayin'

    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    So this door was open when the wound to a body happened?

    Could this be consistent with someone standing with their back out and someone whacking them on the head? Possibly while partially bent inside?
     
  6. Sinsaint

    Sinsaint New Member

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I can't say much of anything other than whatever part of the body that was wounded was above whatever that panel is. If that is the rear door panel as seen in the picture, the wound would have been delivered to an area of the body higher than where the blood landed.
     
  7. MysticJynx

    MysticJynx Just Sayin'

    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    They did a chemical test that indicated it was consistent with blood, but they did not collect DNA from these it seems.
     
  8. missy1974

    missy1974 Active Member

    Messages:
    4,071
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    That's what I seen too.... I worked all day and I'm tired LOL So wasn't sure if I was missing something, thanks for confirming it for me. That does seem strange though, doesn't it?

    Sinsaint ~ thanks for the info, your opinion makes sense looking at the pictures!
     
  9. Sinsaint

    Sinsaint New Member

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Because if they had it would have been determined to be Teresa's blood and based on the spatter she would have been standing up which would not be consistent with the DA's version of events that had her laying on a garage floor. I can only speculate these spatters are the main reason Fassbender and Weigert were so insistent that the RAV4 be in the garage at the time of the shooting. They could never lead Dassey into saying Teresa was standing up in the garage so this piece of evidence fell through the cracks because it clearly didn't come from a wound of an individual laying below the door.
     
  10. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent New Member

    Messages:
    7,563
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It is listed in exhibit 313. A2,A3,AND A4 it is the opinion to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty that Halbach is the source of the DNA . Based on the results of the Pap smear sample. This is the report I mentioned before about the wording of things. Where conclusion to unlisted items on the report appear in the without mention of testing them.
     
  11. missy1974

    missy1974 Active Member

    Messages:
    4,071
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    ohhhhhh I see it!
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1nzus-fCQcoYWY3cjNrV3lZa0U/view

    Thanks Soulmagent! geesh.... why do they crossover like that? why didn't they just keep them all in one report ... or something... easier *sigh*
     
  12. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent New Member

    Messages:
    7,563
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I dunno but this report also has descriptions of items that are shifted ever so slightly . Important or not I dunno but it leaves some things unclear or puts one in a position to maybe assume something incorrect is true.IMO
     
  13. missy1974

    missy1974 Active Member

    Messages:
    4,071
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    BBM..... kinda like we just shifted ever so slightly over to a new thread hehehe

    And yes, I remember you pointing out some inconsistent wording in these reports. I am going to print them out tomorrow so I can have a better look, they are very confusing.
     
  14. Soulmagent

    Soulmagent New Member

    Messages:
    7,563
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    HA, that explains why I could not edit for a minute.
     
  15. MysticJynx

    MysticJynx Just Sayin'

    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Lets go back to this cargo area. A1 Stain recovered from cargo area and A4 from the metal frame around the rear door of the cargo area. Did you notice that it states...

    In Addition apparent hairs were recovered from items a1 and a4.....
    No Examinations were conducted at this time.

    I don't know if any of you have seen anything about these hairs ever being tested but I did skim through the two that were posted here and didn't see them listed again.

    2nd thing is Item a13a Was not utilized it said.
    Item is a Compact Flash Card that was swabbed from the back cargo area of her Rav4. What happened to the Compact Flash Card? Did they ever retrieve whatever was on that memory card?

    https://drive.googlcomp.com/file/d/0B1nzus-fCQcoTlZFazNLdzQ1V2c/view?pref=2&pli=1

    Also I think the first report they had her red toothbrush for DNA testing. seems somewhere they got a better sample from the pap smear and possibly retested those samples against DNA from the pap.
     
  16. shadowraiths

    shadowraiths LISK Liaison, Verified Forensic Psychology Special Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    2,871
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Here is an earlier lab report... from November 9th. Notably, it describes blood-like stains in two cars. The RAV4 and a Pontiac Grand Am. I take it the Grand Am belongs to SA.
     
  17. missy1974

    missy1974 Active Member

    Messages:
    4,071
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I do not see the hairs mentioned again MysticJynx.... Soulmagent might have some more information. I did have a quick look and I don't see them in any reports that have been released so far. Looking at those reports again... it seems like some things were mentioned and then never mentioned again, or skipped over. IMO There may be more detailed reports that we just haven't seen.
     
  18. Zuri

    Zuri New Member

    Messages:
    8,777
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am very confused about the use of a Pap Smear versus using like hair from a hair brush. I apologize if I haven't caught up yet and this has been discussed. pap smear? As in GYN use of Pap smear? When was her Pap done? This is very strange sounding to me. I didn't think labs kept the slides that long or the culturette since they get hundreds of samples a day.
     
  19. Sinsaint

    Sinsaint New Member

    Messages:
    499
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The PAP Smear would be more reliable proof of Halbach's DNA as opposed to a toothbrush or comb anyone could potentially use. The PAP sample is 100%, not questionable, her DNA profile. The PAP can also be confirmed as TH DNA by getting samples of her parents to confirm it.
     
  20. bessie

    bessie Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

    Messages:
    31,701
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Identification of a skeleton using DNA from teeth and a PAP smear.
    Sweet D1, Hildebrand D, Phillips D.
    J Forensic Sci. 1999 May;44(3):630-3.

    "The case described here involves an adult skeleton which exhibited extensive, complex dental restorative treatment. A putative identification of the found skeleton as a missing woman was established using circumstantial evidence found at the scene. However, it became important to establish a positive identification using reliable scientific methods. When it was discovered that antemortem dental records were not available because the treatment was completed in another country and the treating dentist could not be found, cytological smears stained with Papanicolaou (PAP) stain obtained from the putative decedent's medical records were used as a reference DNA sample. DNA was recovered from the teeth of the skeleton using cryogenic grinding. Comparison of the genotypes resulted in the conclusion that the DNA originated from the same source. The use of PAP smears in this way is seen as a valuable resource in cases where positive identification using traditional dental and medical records is not possible."

    5-2002
    DNA from Archived Slides
    Jennifer Lee Millsaps
    University of Tennessee, Knoxville

    pp. 1-2
    One such possible standard could be obtained from existing fixed pathological tissues taken during surgery or other medical procedures. An example of this type of resource is a Papanicolau (Pap) smear, taken during a gynecological examination. ‘Pap smears’ are routinely made on glass slides, which are stained histotopically, examined by medical professionals, and then are conventionally stored for approximately five years before being discarded. As this material is collected by a medical professional under controlled conditions, it is a particularly good potential source of material for subsequent molecular genetic analysis.
     
  21. Zuri

    Zuri New Member

    Messages:
    8,777
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice