Blunt Force Trauma

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by little1, Jan 13, 2004.

  1. little1

    little1 New Member

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    Hello everyone! I just was wondering what you guys would think of this:

    Could the damage to JBR's skull have been caused by carrying her body downstairs and dropping her? (What were the stairs, cement, hard wood?)
    Not sure if this is plausible, not sure if that amount of force could be caused by her being dropped......
     
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  3. DejaNu

    DejaNu Guest

    Little, I've often wondered this myself. I think that kind of skull fracture could be caused by a drop or shove to a floor, whether down the spiral staircase or down the basement stairs. But I will defer to the medical experts.
     
  4. Imon128

    Imon128 Former Member

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    Depending on the distance of a fall like that, I'd think there would be lots more physical evidence in the autopsy, to other parts of JB's body. I don't see that at this point.
     
  5. Toth

    Toth Inactive

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    There would be lots more evidence in the autopsy and also there would probably be some evidence of skull impact in some portion of the home.

    I think you may be forgetting the metal baseball bat found outside the home, in an unusual location, in December, still bearing fibers from the basement carpeting. All this suggests that it was recently dropped outside by the fleeing intruder.
     
  6. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    It does no such thing. Unless, of course, you want to be the sort of person you criticize, one who makes claims unsupportable; in this case, that that portion of the yard had a force field over it, impenetrable by any object or person but a killer-intruder and the items that person carried. Shall we paint you as that person, Toth? "Ramsey defenders come up with the wackiest theories, such as the one where the bat was left in a part of the yard only an intruder could or would walk through, so the bat must have been left by the intruder."
     
  7. tipper

    tipper Former Member

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    I would thinnk the condition of the fibers could give some sense of how recently the bat had been left outside.
     
  8. Ivy

    Ivy Inactive

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    Dr. Werner Spitz conducted experiments in which he struck cadaver skulls with a Maglite like the Rs' Maglite...and the resulting fractures were nearly identical to the one on JonBenet's skull.

    I don't have a source to post for this information. I saw Spitz's demonstration on TV. It may have been four or five years ago.
     
  9. little1

    little1 New Member

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    Just a thought.... I wasn't sure. I also thought there would be trauma to other parts of her body, but if she were dropped head first?

    The bat is a nice thought....but why has there not been more info about this?

    The maglite was what I originally thought was the "culprit" but I just thought about the dropping thing last night while I was getting ready to go to sleep.
     
  10. Toth

    Toth Inactive

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    Lou Smit has never wanted to elaborate on the exact location of the bat, simply that it was not in a place where kids would normally have been playing with a baseball bat and simply left it there.

    I've always felt that the fact of the bat being found outside in December weather and yet still having basement-fibers meant that it had to be recently placed out there, however, I do admit to never having conducted any experiments on this issue. It just seems logical that rain, snow, dew, etc. as well as wind would remove such fibers fairly promptly. The fact that such fibers were not removed means that the bat was placed there fairly recently and therefore probably by the intruder as he fled the premises.
     
  11. packerdog

    packerdog Active Member

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    I had mentioned this a long time ago but thought it was worth bringing up again. A friend of my mothers husband was found dead in the tub when his wife came home from shopping. She had thought that he had a heart attack because there was no sign of blood. It wasn't until they did an autopsy that they found a crack in his skull. They then came to the conclusion that he had fallen in the tub while taking a shower. I have always felt that Patsy slamed JB's head against the tub or toilet, something porcelain.
     
  12. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    Did you learn nothing from the Westerfield case? Danielle Van Dam's body was left out in the open under extremely harsh Santa Ana wind conditions, for far more than the day you would have the bat exposed to the elements by an intruder, yet her body retained fiber evidence which would go on to convict David Westerfield. History can be your lesson in the absence of hands-on experimentation. Fact: fibers can withstand environmental assaults for a longer period of time than a day.
     
  13. TLynn

    TLynn New Member

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    It's been a long time since I've discussed that bat...could someone refresh my memory on where outside it was found. I remember the "spot" being different then the Butler doors, the basement window, where the light was turned off, etc.
     
  14. why_nutt

    why_nutt New Member

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    The bat was found right around the corner from the front of the house. In the picture link below, you would find it directly to the right of the concrete rain spout. To the left, just beyond the tree you see, are the front steps and the front door.

    http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/bat2.jpg

    Edited to add:

    In this picture, you can see that the bat was left there long enough for dried brown leaves and a twig to push themselves up against it. Note again: the leaves and twig are not under the bat, but next to it.

    http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/bat1.jpg
     
  15. little1

    little1 New Member

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    Okay, lets take this a step forward:

    WHat if PR was bathing JBR or washing her off after the wet the bed incident, and dropped her in the tub--on the tile floor? Plausible?
     
  16. Barbara

    Barbara New Member

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    That is one of the theories that has been around a long time. Accident and a cover up.
     
  17. little1

    little1 New Member

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    I know, I am just trying to take it a step further. Lots of theories have been posted about what kind of accident is was....I have never heard of that scenario, the only I know of is PR flipping out and "accidently" banging herhead on the tile or sink, etc.
     
  18. DejaNu

    DejaNu Guest

    Such an innocent accident, why not call 911 for an ambulance to save her rather than concoct a ligature, strangle her, molest her, write a 3 page ransom note, then clean everything up to eliminate forensic evidence? That's certainly what they did when Burke clobbered JB in the face with a golf club, not finish her off. What would make THIS accident any different from THAT accident?????
     
  19. little1

    little1 New Member

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    Nothing would. WHy are you getting so upset? Why would it be more plausible for either incident?

    It was a suggestion. I just wanted to know what people thought, not to get jumped on.
     
  20. Maxi

    Maxi Guest

    I think it's possible Patsy flung JBR against something in the bathroom that would leave a fracture like that on JBR's skull. You can pick up a lot of momentum in a bathroom if the floor is slippery, and many of the surfaces are hard.

    I think the kidnap scenario was probably staged to cover up the sexual abuse. It's one thing to explain a head injury to emergency room workers. It's quite another to have to explain vaginal bleeding. The combination of the two is sure to cause trouble.
     
  21. Toth

    Toth Inactive

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    Yes, I'm sure her body and particularly the clothing retained fiber evidence despite the very dry Santa Ana winds. Is there a correlation between a partially clothed body retaining fiber evidence in dry conditions and a naked baseball bat retaining fibers in wet conditions? Perhaps there is a high correlation. Perhaps not. I frankly do not know.
     

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