Blunt Force Trauma

[K777angel]

The bat was found right around the corner from the front of the house. In the picture link below, you would find it directly to the right of the concrete rain spout. To the left, just beyond the tree you see, are the front steps and the front door.

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/bat2.jpg

Edited to add:

In this picture, you can see that the bat was left there long enough for dried brown leaves and a twig to push themselves up against it. Note again: the leaves and twig are not under the bat, but next to it.

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/bat1.jpg

First of all, WHY would this "intruder" take the bat OUTSIDE with him when he supposedly flees? Not only that, the intruder did it theorists claim he left out the basement window. So picture it: He is hoisting himself up out that little window - and now he has to maneuver this bat with him? WHY? And then, he decides to stick around even longer and go around to the FRONT side of the house from the back? Not run down the alley AWAY?
Also - the picture gives you something very important to consider with this bat used by the intruder theory.
Look where it is. On this small little concrete ledge. In order for it to STAY there it obviously would have to have been "placed" there so it wouldn't roll off. Now this nice intruder just walked up and "placed" the bat there - rather than tossing it as he ran away? LOL!
THINK people. THINK!

 

[Islander]

Some folks believe an intruder left via the butler door, which was reportedly found open by John Fernie. It may be possible (I don’t know if there was a pathway on that side of the house) that an intruder could have exited by way of the butler door, turned right, walked toward the front of the house, laid the bat down gently so that it would not make a noise, and walked on out to the street.

Now why would an intruder walk to the front of the house instead of heading out to the back alley? Someone like an Oliva type would have almost certainly headed for the alley to escape the area. But what about someone familiar with the neighborhood, someone who perhaps lived a very short distance away?

In his book, Steve Thomas described that Christmas night as the “quietest night of the year.” If so, it is at least possible that a neighbor could have simply walked down the street to his nearby home without anyone seeing him. Thomas said in his deposition that he was unaware that some young fellows had moved into the neighborhood on the other side of the street across from (a reason not to use the alley) and close to the Ramsey house. He was also unaware if the police had ever interviewed these fellows. Probably no more than just another example of poor police work that is all to commonly associated with this case, but it’s something that shouldn’t be ignored in my opinion.

 

[popcorn]

Yes, I'm sure her body and particularly the clothing retained fiber evidence despite the very dry Santa Ana winds. Is there a correlation between a partially clothed body retaining fiber evidence in dry conditions and a naked baseball bat retaining fibers in wet conditions? Perhaps there is a high correlation. Perhaps not. I frankly do not know.

A used baseball bat will have lots of nicks and imperfections from impact with the ball that would have picked up the carpet fibers. How else do you assume they stuck there in the first place?

 

[Toth]

Bat did not appear to be particularly beat up or nicked or dented, but I'm sure it was not pristine. I just don't think the fibers would adhere as strongly to a baseball bat which is smooth as to a partially clothed body to which fibers would adhere more strongly. Perhaps WhyNut can obtain some studies on this matter for us?

 

[txsvicki]

A program was on tv tonite about JonBenet's murder. Sorry, I can't remember the man's name, but he was brought into the case and did lots of investigating. He said that the skull trauma came right as she was dying of the strangling, because there was no swelling or blood from the head wound. He also showed how he felt that an intruder came in the basement area. He also said that the bed showed no signs of being wet. I haven't followed this case a lot, so I don't know if this man has been discussed yet or not.

imo

 

[Toth]

You are referring to Lou Smit a retired homicide investigator of the highest reputation in Colorado and the lowest reputation in this forum.

 

[Shylock]

You are referring to Lou Smit a retired homicide investigator of the highest reputation in Colorado ...

Are you refering to the delusional old man who actually claimed a blue arc from electricity will color a person's skin blue if it contacts it?
Do you think he also believes his hand will turn blue if he puts it into the blue flame on the burner of his gas stove?

LOL....de-Lou-sional

 

[little1]

I think it's possible Patsy flung JBR against something in the bathroom that would leave a fracture like that on JBR's skull. You can pick up a lot of momentum in a bathroom if the floor is slippery, and many of the surfaces are hard.

I think the kidnap scenario was probably staged to cover up the sexual abuse. It's one thing to explain a head injury to emergency room workers. It's quite another to have to explain vaginal bleeding. The combination of the two is sure to cause trouble.

But if PR did this (for whatever reason) why would JBR have vaginal bleeding? Unless she had been molested right before?

 

[K777angel]

You are referring to Lou Smit a retired homicide investigator of the highest reputation in Colorado and the lowest reputation in this forum.

No Toth - Lou Smit HAD the "highest reputation" at one time. He no longer does. He blew it with his very unethical and unproffesional antics in the JonBenet Ramsey case. He is in fact the laughing stock of his trade. Too bad. But he did it to himself.

 

[TLynn]

Lou Smit - the one who stands in JonBenet's "shoes" and says she woke up and ate pineapple from a tubberware in her bedroom...?

 

[Toth]

No Toth - Lou Smit HAD the "highest reputation" at one time. He no longer does. He blew it with his very unethical and unproffesional antics in the JonBenet Ramsey case. He is in fact the laughing stock of his trade. Too bad. But he did it to himself.

That's odd? I've seen no 'antics'. He seems calm, quiet, professional and polite. Even his insistence on appearing before the grand jury was handled as quietly as possible when he had to get a court order. No 'antics' at all. He still has the reputation of a top evidence oriented investigator and prior to joining DA-Keenan in her quest for the truth, he was working three days a week for El Paso County as a homicide investigator, so I don't think they considered him a "laughing stock". Do you think DA-Keenan wanted to hire a "laughing stock"?

 

[why_nutt]

He still has the reputation of a top evidence oriented investigator and prior to joining DA-Keenan in her quest for the truth, he was working three days a week for El Paso County as a homicide investigator, so I don't think they considered him a "laughing stock". Do you think DA-Keenan wanted to hire a "laughing stock"?

Interestingly, Smit was working to solve cold El Paso cases. Guess what? He solved not one of them. I feel free to say this: if Smit cannot solve a case within a few months of applying himself to the task, he will not solve it at all. His greatest triumph, the Heather Dawn Church case, was solved within two months of the time he was hired. Not two years, not more than two years; two months. And, as the Denver Post rightly noted at the time, "Browne could have been arrested almost immediately if his fingerprint card had been on file with Colorado Springs police and the Colorado Bureau of
Investigation." So Smit's reputation rests on the incompetency of others, not on his own merits as someone with great detective skills unmatched by any other detective in either Colorado or the United States.

 

[BlueCrab]

A used baseball bat will have lots of nicks and imperfections from impact with the ball that would have picked up the carpet fibers. How else do you assume they stuck there in the first place?

There were TWO baseball bats found outside. One was out in the open in the back yard, and the other one was semi-hidden on the north side of the house where people seldom went because of the dense shrubs and was too close to the nextdoor neighbor's house to allow kids to play there.

Both bats were youth-size aluminum baseball bats. The one in the back yard was identified by John Ramsey, in a photo shown to him by Lou Smit, as "Burke's bat." A photo of the other bat, the one on the north side of the house, was shown to John and he responded that the bat "doesn't belong there." He said that on that north side there's a "large planting area there ... we never went on that side of the house."

In this interview it was also noted that the grass and foliage was trampled under the nearby window (It was the window to the bathroom in the basement) and was hidden enough for the painter to have missed painting that window.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[Maxi]

But if PR did this (for whatever reason) why would JBR have vaginal bleeding? Unless she had been molested right before?

I can see a couple of possibilities. One would be that John Ramsey had been molesting her, and Patsy knew about it. Or Patsy could have been molesting her. I consider these unlikely, but possible.

A more likely possibility, imo, is that Patsy herself inflicted the scrape on JBR's hymen with her fingernails. Given the type of injury, their shallow position within the vaginal vault, and the position of a young child's hymen, I think they could have been inflicted by a too vigorous wiping of a wiggling child.

 

[why_nutt]

A more likely possibility, imo, is that Patsy herself inflicted the scrape on JBR's hymen with her fingernails. Given the type of injury, their shallow position within the vaginal vault, and the position of a young child's hymen, I think they could have been inflicted by a too vigorous wiping of a wiggling child.

I can agree with that theory. The entire pedophile-intruder theory ignores that most important word: "shallow." The injury just barely grazed JonBenet's interior. How could that possibly be if someone was intent on probing her for pleasure? It is that very shallowness which, in my opinion, is at the heart of any "gentle molestation" claim. If the abrasion represents a graze from a fingernail, then, of course, the birefrigent material may be a flake from nail polish. This makes sense. A pedophile rooting around in JonBenet's underwear, leaving DNA on her panties but not on her genitalia, and managing to abrade her inside while leaving not a scratch on her pubic area or labia, does not make sense.

 

[popcorn]

I agree about the shallowness of the injury, the depth is even more shallow relative to a child who is perhaps sitting upright on the potty vs laying down.

PS-don't forget to consider Patsy's manicured claws as evident on the rings thread.

 

[Barbara]

That's odd? I've seen no 'antics'. He seems calm, quiet, professional and polite. Even his insistence on appearing before the grand jury was handled as quietly as possible when he had to get a court order. No 'antics' at all. He still has the reputation of a top evidence oriented investigator and prior to joining DA-Keenan in her quest for the truth, he was working three days a week for El Paso County as a homicide investigator, so I don't think they considered him a "laughing stock". Do you think DA-Keenan wanted to hire a "laughing stock"?

Smit HAD a wonderful reputation. Wisdom is knowing when to call it a day. He ruined his own reputation and I'll tell you why.

When posters like yourself and others post statements as FACTS rather than theories or opinions, it is just considered foolish and/or misinformation. That is why it is so important to state that it is your THEORY, BELIEF, OPINION.

When a "seasoned homicide investigator" with a wonderful reputation makes a powerpoint presentation along with going on national TV and news shows and presents theories and possibilities as stone cold FACTS it becomes IMO, MALPRACTICE.

Imagine a doctor telling you for a FACT that you have a brain tumor without benefit of lab work, X rays, MRI, etc. He may believe, based on his experience with the symptoms you describe, that it sounds like symptoms produced by a brain tumor, but it is not FACT until the lab reports tell him so.

That is what Lou Smit has done, plain and simple.

When one retires from a profession, at least how I was taught ethically, you are ALWAYS and FOREVER held to the proper standards. Volunteering, working as a consultant, paid or unpaid, helping the DA, etc. does not excuse UNprofessionalism.

When Lou Smit makes blanket statements that have not yet been scientifically or forensically proven and presents them as FACTS in the case, he has stepped over the ethical line. When he prayed with the Ramseys, he stepped over the line. They were, whether it was his belief or not, the prime suspects in this investigation and he should not have befriended them as a PROFESSIONAL.

As far as the GJ and Smit having to go to court to present his findings, you leave out the part that Smit stole the evidence and in order to keep it, he blackmailed the DA, Hunter and that's how the whole GJ issue was resolved. You can call it a mutual: "I won't tell on you if you don't tell on me" scenario. Let's not make those who don't know enough about the case believe that Lou was an innocent and was oppressed by LE. That was not the case. Lou Smit ILLEGALLY took materials and worked out this little arrangement with Hunter to keep them in exchange for Hunter's secrets kept.

Let me respond BEFORE it is posted:

Steve Thomas' book was based on his OPINION and THEORY which was made clear.

Unethical is part of Lou's reputation now, which means his reputation is no longer wonderful

 

[why_nutt]

PS-don't forget to consider Patsy's manicured claws as evident on the rings thread.

One more item: in the book MEDICOLEGAL INVESTIGATION OF DEATH, a standard textbook for investigators of crime scenes, investigators are warned that if they see marks on a victim's neck associated with strangulation and appearing to come from fingernails, they are not to assume that the nails belonged to the victim. Sometimes perpetrators will leave behind nail marks as they scratch their victim's neck while trying to remove the ligature.

 

[Charlie]

Why_nut posted
"that portion of the yard had a force field over it, impenetrable by any object or person but a killer-intruder and the items that person carried."

I agree with you Why_nutt, the baseball bat's location doesn’t suggest an intruder necessarily dropped it there. If the Ramsey’s did stage the crime scene then why on earth wouldn’t they put the baseball bat in what they call an unusual place in the yard, it would contribute to the staging. Well...unless of course that part of the yard had a magnetic field where by only an intruder with a few loose screws in their head would be drawn to that place

Futhermore, if John stated that it this bat "doesn't belong here" why would the intruder bring his own baseball bat and leave it at the crime scene yet take all his other materials with him. If this intruder is so clever that nothing will be traced back to him why leave the baseball bat?

 

[Shylock]

Do you think DA-Keenan wanted to hire a "laughing stock"?

Oh Keenan hired Smit now, huh Toth? Just where did you get THAT information? Gee, we thought only Tom Bean-it was on the BOCO payroll.