YESorNO
The Queen (aka "mrsmuir") SWBB
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Trapped with Ms. Arias
Chapter 18
Learning more about Mr. Alexander
L "looked upon " TA "with sadness, not just because of how he died but because of how he lived"
L believed that TA was "a slave to his image", "never being what he wanted to be"
To L, TA cared much about what others thought of him
- to appear he was doing well financially (he was not)
-Ta hosted fight night parties, etc.- "demonstrated wealth"
L was sad about TA's "morals and his spiritual beliefs...could tell that he was not truly living in the way he wanted to live"
-L could tell "looks at a person's behavior to assess the kind of person they are"
-L gives example
-states that TA didn't "act like he wanted to be a Mormon"
-Ta was "highly motivated by sex" (evidence- "communications and conduct not only with Ms. Arias but with other women as well")
-normal for others- "but are obviously well outside the norm if someone is of the Mormon faith"
L felt that if TA shared his feelings ( actions showed he wanted to live "a less restrictive more normal sexual existence") with friends, he "would lose their love and friendship"
L states could be wrong - if TA truly wanted to be member of LDS Church- "think about the guilt and shame he must have lived with. To me living with such guilt and/or shame would be a very sad way to live" (pg. 99)
================================================== =========
Chapter 19
Ms. Arias' Jail Calls
phone calls in Maricopa jail can only be 12 min long before another call can be made
during phone calls, defendants can say things that are detrimental to their case
defendants are warned by their attys not to talk to others about their case- can be used against them in court
some defendants think they are "smarter than their attorneys"... they do not listen to this advice"
L gives this advice to all clients
in non-death cases, L doesn't normally care about client's calls- in DP case everything important- always listens to calls- "not much of a burden" to listen
normally not many calls- expensive
the murderer had lots of calls- she would call friends, family, call others to ask why people were not picking up her calls- calls several X day and daily basis
L amazed at all the calls- people who received her calls had to pay for them "and they were typically pointless" calls
L stated was obligated to listen to calls- JM would be listening too and use calls for his case for death
L states he "had a self-destructive client who thought she was smarter than anyone. So I assumed that she would try and pull something off during one of these calls, something that she thought might help her case" (pg. 101)
State could use tapes at trial without advance notice
murderer did not talk about trial too much on calls but, "she said so many other damaging things that I was sure that the State would bring them up during sentencing because these calls did not portray Ms. Arias in a good light" (pg. 102)
- she would yell, act "mean-spirited" at mother, call her "stupid and/or guilt her into sending her money because she was starving"- not sending her money/book fast
murderer did not care if mother had money- she would even tell mother how to budget money so had enough to send to her and to ignore her father if he objected-
"...she had the unmitigated gall to give canteen items to other inmates and thus ask her mother for more money. It was pretty repulsive to listen to.." (pg. 102)
L wanted Sandy to hang up on the murderer "..to my recollection she only did once"- never stood up to the murderer
L was amazed at arrogance and narcissism of the murderer
"Sandy was the parent but she never seemed to act like it at all"
L not "reading too much into it because Sandy.....was empathetic to her daughter's situation"
phone calls gave L "insight" into the murderer's relationship with people
the murderer "degraded her mother and to others" , ordered her siblings around "acting superior to them even though she was in jail"
L felt that the murderer thought world owed her something, very angry with mother (for what ??)
"To me this was something I saw a fair amount of time in former clients who had been sexually abused. Thus, to me it was more evidence that Ms. Arias was mad at her mother for not caring enough to stop the abuse, more evidence that she was mad at her mother for not protecting her from the person sexually abusing her as a child." (pg. 103)
the murderer was "kind and respectful" to father, but conversations very cold- did not talk often
seemed to L that parents only talked to murderer "out of obligation to the other because of the biological link they shared"
murderer manipulated mother- indirectly, talking bad of the father- or asking her to do things behind her father's back "because he was such a 'jerk' "
father did not like that mother sent the murderer so much money
L thought that money was "a big deal" to murderer
L talks about her "fan base"- began after 48 Hours show- she received "a ton of mail"
categories of mail:
-biggest- men who wanted to have sex with her "Men who believed that once Ms. Arias was set free that she would come running into their arms and eventually into their beds"- L called them "suitors"
- "a general assortment of weird people" (one woman shared her whole sexual history)
to the murderer, fans were potential cash cows/ do things for her- she dedicated more time to "suitors"- thought they would generate more money for her
L listened carefully to calls from "suitors" for "shenanigans"- never heard any- "assumes" JM never heard any either because he didn't use calls in court
L "recalls" a suitor - lived in Missouri- worked on farm- around 60 years old - he was "thrilled" she called him "This man would tell her how he had a room for her once she got out of jail"
L said he had sexual interest in her "and she knew it"- would "feign interest in him and without fail he would eventually ask .. if she needed anything"- she pretended she was OK-she made it feel as if she "was practically doing him a favor by allowing him to send her money...or..book. In this regard, she was amazing" (pg. 104) L said it was "so pathetic"
L said she had plenty of "suitors" and money to buy things from the jail "canteen"
L amazed that State never used calls in third phase of trial- may never know- he would have- "there never a time when I thought Ms. Arias was deserving of the death penalty more than when I listened to her on theses calls" (pg. 105) and L against DP under "any circumstance"- said the murderer "sounded like a monster...[ she was] truly sickening to me"
talks about friend Donovan- came to trial almost every day- murderer often called her
-served as a "quasi-spokesperson"- they met in jail when housed together, not life-long friends
- the murderer manipulated her into her personal assistant on outside
- this made the murderer seem, to L, "like a very scary person in her ability to manipulate others"
L thought if jurors heard calls, they would despise her- for crime and personal too
"If I was the prosecutor on the case, I would have had Dr Demarte refer to these calls as examples that supported her diagnosis as doing so would have been a way to illustrate to the jury, perhaps without saying so, that Ms. Arias was a monster whose life needed to end. Fortunately for Ms. Arias, that never happened." (pg. 105)
================================================== ==============
Chapter 20
Ms. Arias' "Ninja Story"
seemed like a "bull**** story" to L, but back then, couldn't prove it was a "bull**** story"
if that was the murderer's story , he had to work with it at the time
L didn't know when she was going to change the story- couldn't hold up case- had to prepare a case
had to have murderer talk to experts anyway even with that story to see what they said
"I had to try to minimize the damage that my client was doing to her own case...If..story was going to change...admit the 'ninja story' was not true.....the sooner the better."
L states, to him, what happened on 6/4/2008 did not include ninjas "or any other person for that matter"
L did not "vocalize these beliefs" to the murderer and did not "assert to her that I believed her 'ninja story' .....over time she began to sense that I did not believe this story"- she came, in time, to telling him different story
"If she got up on the stand and told the 'ninja story' she would be found guilty of First Degree Murder and she would be sentenced to death" (pg. 108)
L felt that the murderer believed that others would accept the "ninja story"- she could convince the jury that it was true
L had to show her that "real people" would not accept her story, but couldn't disclose confidential material to them
L did not need to have her permission to disclose evidence already in public
with help of Mit Spec, showed class of undergrads CBS docu- gave them questionnaire- did they believe the "ninja story"?- no one believed it
after- the murderer told story of self-defense- "ninja story" now dead
L didn't believe the self defense story either- "You may notice ....Ms. Arias' revised version of events I have been using the word 'story' "
had she revised her story sooner, before Samuels' meeting, he wouldn't have been attacked on stand
always possibility that she wouldn't have changed story- needed to have her evaluated
" ...I was trying to save Ms. Arias' life, yet at the same time she was trying to make it harder for me to do my job" (pg. 109)
================================================== ==========
Next:
Chapter 21
The Murder Weapons
Chapter 22
Ms. Arias' Supposed Guilt Phase Witnesses
================================================== =============
Chapter 18
Learning more about Mr. Alexander
L "looked upon " TA "with sadness, not just because of how he died but because of how he lived"
L believed that TA was "a slave to his image", "never being what he wanted to be"
To L, TA cared much about what others thought of him
- to appear he was doing well financially (he was not)
-Ta hosted fight night parties, etc.- "demonstrated wealth"
L was sad about TA's "morals and his spiritual beliefs...could tell that he was not truly living in the way he wanted to live"
-L could tell "looks at a person's behavior to assess the kind of person they are"
-L gives example
-states that TA didn't "act like he wanted to be a Mormon"
-Ta was "highly motivated by sex" (evidence- "communications and conduct not only with Ms. Arias but with other women as well")
-normal for others- "but are obviously well outside the norm if someone is of the Mormon faith"
L felt that if TA shared his feelings ( actions showed he wanted to live "a less restrictive more normal sexual existence") with friends, he "would lose their love and friendship"
L states could be wrong - if TA truly wanted to be member of LDS Church- "think about the guilt and shame he must have lived with. To me living with such guilt and/or shame would be a very sad way to live" (pg. 99)
================================================== =========
Chapter 19
Ms. Arias' Jail Calls
phone calls in Maricopa jail can only be 12 min long before another call can be made
during phone calls, defendants can say things that are detrimental to their case
defendants are warned by their attys not to talk to others about their case- can be used against them in court
some defendants think they are "smarter than their attorneys"... they do not listen to this advice"
L gives this advice to all clients
in non-death cases, L doesn't normally care about client's calls- in DP case everything important- always listens to calls- "not much of a burden" to listen
normally not many calls- expensive
the murderer had lots of calls- she would call friends, family, call others to ask why people were not picking up her calls- calls several X day and daily basis
L amazed at all the calls- people who received her calls had to pay for them "and they were typically pointless" calls
L stated was obligated to listen to calls- JM would be listening too and use calls for his case for death
L states he "had a self-destructive client who thought she was smarter than anyone. So I assumed that she would try and pull something off during one of these calls, something that she thought might help her case" (pg. 101)
State could use tapes at trial without advance notice
murderer did not talk about trial too much on calls but, "she said so many other damaging things that I was sure that the State would bring them up during sentencing because these calls did not portray Ms. Arias in a good light" (pg. 102)
- she would yell, act "mean-spirited" at mother, call her "stupid and/or guilt her into sending her money because she was starving"- not sending her money/book fast
murderer did not care if mother had money- she would even tell mother how to budget money so had enough to send to her and to ignore her father if he objected-
"...she had the unmitigated gall to give canteen items to other inmates and thus ask her mother for more money. It was pretty repulsive to listen to.." (pg. 102)
L wanted Sandy to hang up on the murderer "..to my recollection she only did once"- never stood up to the murderer
L was amazed at arrogance and narcissism of the murderer
"Sandy was the parent but she never seemed to act like it at all"
L not "reading too much into it because Sandy.....was empathetic to her daughter's situation"
phone calls gave L "insight" into the murderer's relationship with people
the murderer "degraded her mother and to others" , ordered her siblings around "acting superior to them even though she was in jail"
L felt that the murderer thought world owed her something, very angry with mother (for what ??)
"To me this was something I saw a fair amount of time in former clients who had been sexually abused. Thus, to me it was more evidence that Ms. Arias was mad at her mother for not caring enough to stop the abuse, more evidence that she was mad at her mother for not protecting her from the person sexually abusing her as a child." (pg. 103)
the murderer was "kind and respectful" to father, but conversations very cold- did not talk often
seemed to L that parents only talked to murderer "out of obligation to the other because of the biological link they shared"
murderer manipulated mother- indirectly, talking bad of the father- or asking her to do things behind her father's back "because he was such a 'jerk' "
father did not like that mother sent the murderer so much money
L thought that money was "a big deal" to murderer
L talks about her "fan base"- began after 48 Hours show- she received "a ton of mail"
categories of mail:
-biggest- men who wanted to have sex with her "Men who believed that once Ms. Arias was set free that she would come running into their arms and eventually into their beds"- L called them "suitors"
- "a general assortment of weird people" (one woman shared her whole sexual history)
to the murderer, fans were potential cash cows/ do things for her- she dedicated more time to "suitors"- thought they would generate more money for her
L listened carefully to calls from "suitors" for "shenanigans"- never heard any- "assumes" JM never heard any either because he didn't use calls in court
L "recalls" a suitor - lived in Missouri- worked on farm- around 60 years old - he was "thrilled" she called him "This man would tell her how he had a room for her once she got out of jail"
L said he had sexual interest in her "and she knew it"- would "feign interest in him and without fail he would eventually ask .. if she needed anything"- she pretended she was OK-she made it feel as if she "was practically doing him a favor by allowing him to send her money...or..book. In this regard, she was amazing" (pg. 104) L said it was "so pathetic"
L said she had plenty of "suitors" and money to buy things from the jail "canteen"
L amazed that State never used calls in third phase of trial- may never know- he would have- "there never a time when I thought Ms. Arias was deserving of the death penalty more than when I listened to her on theses calls" (pg. 105) and L against DP under "any circumstance"- said the murderer "sounded like a monster...[ she was] truly sickening to me"
talks about friend Donovan- came to trial almost every day- murderer often called her
-served as a "quasi-spokesperson"- they met in jail when housed together, not life-long friends
- the murderer manipulated her into her personal assistant on outside
- this made the murderer seem, to L, "like a very scary person in her ability to manipulate others"
L thought if jurors heard calls, they would despise her- for crime and personal too
"If I was the prosecutor on the case, I would have had Dr Demarte refer to these calls as examples that supported her diagnosis as doing so would have been a way to illustrate to the jury, perhaps without saying so, that Ms. Arias was a monster whose life needed to end. Fortunately for Ms. Arias, that never happened." (pg. 105)
================================================== ==============
Chapter 20
Ms. Arias' "Ninja Story"
seemed like a "bull**** story" to L, but back then, couldn't prove it was a "bull**** story"
if that was the murderer's story , he had to work with it at the time
L didn't know when she was going to change the story- couldn't hold up case- had to prepare a case
had to have murderer talk to experts anyway even with that story to see what they said
"I had to try to minimize the damage that my client was doing to her own case...If..story was going to change...admit the 'ninja story' was not true.....the sooner the better."
L states, to him, what happened on 6/4/2008 did not include ninjas "or any other person for that matter"
L did not "vocalize these beliefs" to the murderer and did not "assert to her that I believed her 'ninja story' .....over time she began to sense that I did not believe this story"- she came, in time, to telling him different story
"If she got up on the stand and told the 'ninja story' she would be found guilty of First Degree Murder and she would be sentenced to death" (pg. 108)
L felt that the murderer believed that others would accept the "ninja story"- she could convince the jury that it was true
L had to show her that "real people" would not accept her story, but couldn't disclose confidential material to them
L did not need to have her permission to disclose evidence already in public
with help of Mit Spec, showed class of undergrads CBS docu- gave them questionnaire- did they believe the "ninja story"?- no one believed it
after- the murderer told story of self-defense- "ninja story" now dead
L didn't believe the self defense story either- "You may notice ....Ms. Arias' revised version of events I have been using the word 'story' "
had she revised her story sooner, before Samuels' meeting, he wouldn't have been attacked on stand
always possibility that she wouldn't have changed story- needed to have her evaluated
" ...I was trying to save Ms. Arias' life, yet at the same time she was trying to make it harder for me to do my job" (pg. 109)
================================================== ==========
Next:
Chapter 21
The Murder Weapons
Chapter 22
Ms. Arias' Supposed Guilt Phase Witnesses
================================================== =============
