Bosma Murder Trial 06.1.16 - Day 57 - Closing Arguments Day 2

[Boudica]

Here are my two cents. I thought Dungey did brillant in the closing for Smich. I continue to think Millard is 110% guilty, however, I do have some doubts regarding Smich's guilt. Can't help it. I'm just not there. As many have said, after the Crown has completed their closing, my opinion on Smich's guilt may change.

 

[canadiangirl]

After yesterday I still see mountains and mountains of evidence against DM planning and forcible confinement. And not a whole lot except "interpretation" for MS. I think it be horrible to think he could just walk away though. Like all the key players I think he needs to be charged with something for sure. I'm trying to remember the theories being presented are all plausible but TD brought me back yesterday that they are just that. Theories. So I'm back to waiting for the crown to tie it all together for me.

 

[Inspector_North]

Why is there a general assumption that when a gun is pulled out, a struggle ensues? The whole point of guns is to avoid this. A little guy can kill a big guy without even touching him. Aren't struggles over guns the thing of movies?
If those guys wanted Igors truck by shooting, what was stopping them? And, what was wrong with Igors truck that they didn't return to take it, as they are pretending the plan was? Why drive all the way to Ancaster with that roll of tape? I wish the crown had asked what that tape was used for. There seems to be more evidence that MS was there to confine the victim than kill him.

IIRC, MS said the tape was for stenciling. He was using it when tagging.

MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

I've been around long enough now to believe that people do unspeakable things that you and I can NEVER understand. I've also come to recognize that usually the simplest path is the correct path, as heinous as it may be, and sometimes we create curves in that path that don't need to be there. Occam's Razor.

When I look at the texts and the actions of those involved, taking a good hard look at the totality of the evidence I decided to apply Occam's Razor.

At the end of the day, I believe they are both guilty of First Degree Murder.

MOO

 

[canadiangirl]

IIRC, MS said the tape was for stenciling. He was using it when tagging.

MOO

Well by looking at his one tag, I'd say that was a lie lol

 

[redwing7225]

Unfortunately work is keeping me away from following as close as when the trial first began.
My phone goes crazy with all the tweets from AC and SC however, don't always have the time to review.
Again, many thanks to all of you who post the tweets here and to all of you who share your views and opinions based on the facts presented.
Personally, IMO, if I were a juror at this point, DM guilty, MS, not so sure of 1st. However, if I were to sit down with all the facts including txt msgs, actions, etc, my thoughts would most likely change.
I find it hard to believe that if MS was innocent of 1st, that he wouldn't come forward sooner and disclose "the truth". One would think that a rational, respectable person would clear their name of involvement especially dealing with m1. With that being said, MS was just a drug dealer with a small criminal past, respectable and rational didn't suit him 3yrs ago.
Heck, even TLM did the best she could to put the pieces together for the TS case (rest in peace sweet girl)...and imo, TLM and MR should rot in prison the rest of their days.

 

[andreww]

After yesterday I still see mountains and mountains of evidence against DM planning and forcible confinement. And not a whole lot except "interpretation" for MS. I think it be horrible to think he could just walk away though. Like all the key players I think he needs to be charged with something for sure. I'm trying to remember the theories being presented are all plausible but TD brought me back yesterday that they are just that. Theories. So I'm back to waiting for the crown to tie it all together for me.

I get what you are saying that some of the evidence is open to interpretation, but consider the fact that Smich has been charged with two murders previous to this one. Do you honestly think that Millard would have kept him in the dark about this?


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[Jug Up]

This isn't a game, where the one with the better lawyer at the final buzzer wins.

It doesn't take a year of planning to steal a truck. Most thieves can pull it off in a night. They both knew the plan, and executed it. The Crown will hammer that home again today.

TD is a great BSer, but that doesn't make MS innocent.

Guilty as charged for both.

 

[redwing7225]

I get what you are saying that some of the evidence is open to interpretation, but consider the fact that Smich has been charged with two murders previous to this one. Do you honestly think that Millard would have kept him in the dark about this?


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Not disputing the fact of the other MS murder charge but, this is the trial for Tim, all other charges should not be factored into account. (Although, I find it hard to believe the jurors either know nothing of the other charges or won't take them into account).
My opinion

 

[Ontario Mom]

All My own opinion:

Today was a fine example, and a reminder, of what good legal representation is, and what the law is all about.

Yes. The crown so far has a decent case. It isn't bullet proof, and a lot of the testimony presented is full of holes and lies, and people protecting their own interests (CN and her later trial). We know, regardless of MS' testimony on the stand, that TB died at the hands of DM and MS. Maybe one, maybe both of them committed the crime. Only the two defendants know the truth. The bigger question, is which truth is actually factual. MS gave testimony, and some of that testimony is backed up and correlated by physical evidence (video footage, lack of GSR in yukon, etc). There are some flaws with his story, but not critical, and after cross examination, the crown didnt come forward with evidence or witness which disproved his testimony. DM has provided no testimony, and we were subjected to the poor ability of his legal councel in cross examination, and his rambling and suggestion of what DM claims happened. Unfortunately, his ramblings didn't help his or DM's appearance of supposed innocence, and the theories made even less sense, with little previously entered physical evidence backing up DM's scenarios.

I've read a few opinions on this thread, and I do not agree largely with those that just want to watch someone fry - not justice, but vengeance. I am a firm beleiver in the justice system, and the conviction has to fit the crime. Yes, TB died and it was horrible. But before we completely remove someones freedom and strip them of some of their charter rights, the very charter rights that soliders die for, and ever Canadian takes for granted, we MUST be sure we convict the correct person, for the correct time, and that they serve the correct sentence. I don't care of MS or DM are sleazy, manipulating, or what ever I think of them. One of them pulled the trigger, and we have to be damn sure which one planned that murder before we slam them away for 70+ years.

Today was a good example of the legal system at work. It established that only one person could have commited Murder in the first degree, and that the other committed second degree, at worst. Dungey did a good job showing that it was possible that it was actually a murder in the second commited by DM, and that MS was accessory after the fact.

At this time, I'm inclined to think that DM commited First or Second degree (mountain against him), and that MS was accessory after the fact (no GSR in yukon, video footage backs his story better than DM's story, etc), after my taking into consideration the facts of the case, the testimony given, and evidence entered. I do not pay attention to stories, speculation and theories in a court room. They don't belong there.

Tomorrow the crown has their turn. My opinion might change, again.

All my own thoughts and opinion.

Well, it isn't all your own opinion because there's at least a few of us here who agree 100% with what you're saying. This is exactly what I've been trying to say for a while now, you just worded it better. We all want justice for what happened to Tim Bosma and for me (not that my opinion matters) I need the Crown to come out swinging and knock all the garbage out of the courtroom. If they can do that I'm sure my opinion will change as well.

 

[Gibson67]

I wonder if DM will have the same council for the LB and WM cases. I could see him throwing a tantrum if he is convicted in Tim's murder and that seems likely. I know in the letters he alluded to representing himself in those cases. After this he probably thinks he can do a better job when in reality this should show him even the best lawyers have trouble.

MS would be smart to keep Dungey for the LB case but who knows.

I wonder if they will be tried together again? Will it be by Jury or Judge?

 

[canadiangirl]

I get what you are saying that some of the evidence is open to interpretation, but consider the fact that Smich has been charged with two murders previous to this one. Do you honestly think that Millard would have kept him in the dark about this?


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Yes. He made SS move his red truck and build him an incinerator and buy him one. Along with a multitude of other things SS did for his boss and didn't know anything about a murder. So I see reasonable doubt it's possible MS didn't know his true plans. DM was a ticking time bomb IMO.

One could say if SS went on the "test drive" with him, he'd be the one guilty of first degree with DM. According to texts and actions, the guy would've appeared to know a everything about a premeditation plan.

I'm not considering any other charges for determining this one. If I did, it may change things. But I don't know the evidence in that case yet. So would not convict someone on this basis. MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

This isn't a game, where the one with the better lawyer at the final buzzer wins.

It doesn't take a year of planning to steal a truck. Most thieves can pull it off in a night. They both knew the plan, and executed it. The Crown will hammer that home again today.

TD is a great BSer, but that doesn't make MS innocent.

Guilty as charged for both.

Exactly! There was something very different about this mission, and that was it required access to the keys. I don't buy MS's story that SS gave DM a crash course on how to hot wire a vehicle like this Dodge 3500.

How they were going to get the truck required planning. Take it from the source! Use robbery!?

For me, looking at their activity as two separate plans that overlap, helps me understand the evidence.

1) Plan to steal a truck, and the only evidence we have seen suggests it would be by robbery. MS's story that it was scoping only, and they would return later to steal it is BS.

2) They were also planning the usage for the incinerator, and this was for ridding generic murder evidence.

So, when looking at TB's murder as premeditated, I look at the specific plan around stealing the truck, and the generic plan to use the incinerator for nefarious reasons. The result for me is both guilty of the 1st.

MOO

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

People who believe DM is guilty of 1st degree and MS isn't, please help me understand how DM can be so sure of MS playing along?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

"He's getting rid of it because of the pressure on him and he doesn't know what to do, and he's too dimwitted to go to the police," Dungey says.
by Adam Carter 2:34 PM

I wonder if at the break, MS will say, "Thanks, you're doing a great job but maybe take it down a notch" LOL. I like TD's style. He is repeating "petty drug dealer" and "killer" when referring to MS and DM respectively. Its a technique recommended for giving persuasive presentations.

Funny, I've been calling them both "dimwitts" for a while now..lol, wonder if Dungey had read WS'S.

 

[billandrew]

I wonder if they will be tried together again? Will it be by Jury or Judge?

There will be a joint jury trial for LB's murder in early 2017.

 

[DMB]

Nor does it sound appropriate that an innocent person (of murder) has been sitting in jail for over 3 years. I think this would be a good time to discuss a plea

 

[Ontario Mom]

I get what you are saying that some of the evidence is open to interpretation, but consider the fact that Smich has been charged with two murders previous to this one. Do you honestly think that Millard would have kept him in the dark about this?


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I thought he was only charged in LB's case. ??

 

[Ontario Mom]

People who believe DM is guilty of 1st degree and MS isn't, please help me understand how DM can be so sure of MS playing along?

That's really a great question. I think, if it's true that DM is guilty of 1st and MS isn't, in DM's mind the way he knew MS would just go along with it is the same way he knew MS would go along with all the other crimes they committed. Their relationship dynamic seemed to be one of supply and demand. DM had the supply and MS had the demand.

DM kept MS around by all the goodies he had to offer and MS stuck around for those goodies. I suspect if you took away the money, adrenaline rushes the thefts provided, the parties, the properties, etc., MS likely wouldn't be all that interested in DM's company. But, that's just a guess. I could be totally wrong.

 

[andreww]

Yes. He made SS move his red truck and build him an incinerator and buy him one. Along with a multitude of other things SS did for his boss and didn't know anything about a murder. So I see reasonable doubt it's possible MS didn't know his true plans. DM was a ticking time bomb IMO.

One could say if SS went on the "test drive" with him, he'd be the one guilty of first degree with DM. According to texts and actions, the guy would've appeared to know a everything about a premeditation plan.

I'm not considering any other charges for determining this one. If I did, it may change things. But I don't know the evidence in that case yet. So would not convict someone on this basis. MOO

BBM. Okay, we can agree to disagree on this. My thinking goes like this.... MM begged MS not to go on the Bosma test drive, so I believe its safe to say that she knew this wasn't an ordinary theft. Likely she heard the details and planning at Maplegate when MS, DM and AM were discussing it. She also denied knowing anything about it. But this shows, like the thefts, Millard was not being secretive about things with his inner circle. Now there is no evidence to show that SS was aware, but he certainly didn't even flinch when he found out that he was helping strip down Bosma's truck did he? IMO SS is neither guilty or innocent in this, he's just not been prosecuted due to lack of evidence.