Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #12

[Inspector_North]

Noted. He doesn't explain to CN what happen, because she already knows. He's trying to control the repercussions.

Why would he say to CN that it was MS's mess he was cleaning up if the letters were to be destroyed?

 

[musicaljoke]

There is absolutely no proof to suggest he was either there (or not there) at the actual time of the shooting. Given that the shooting occurred in the truck and that MS was MOST LIKELY following behind in the Yukon, there is a chance he was not present at the time of the shooting. I believe that is enough to create reasonable double around 1st degree murder.

He can be found guilty of first degree murder even if he was following in the other truck. The evidence of co-conspiring a plot to steal and murder suggests that he was fully engaged. imo

 

[MsSherlock]

I'm not sure where your animosity is coming from and the number of them has nothing to do with their ability but the size and seriousness of this case.

IMO, it is because of the size/seriousness of the case along with the length of the trial and volumes of evidence. Just like the Judge called for extra Jurors in this case, IMO, it's more than prudent to have multiple Crown Attorneys working together. AFAIK, there are lots of times there are 2 Crowns working on a case. MOO

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Oh...and how did mommy dearest manage to get them in and out. Do you not have to check all of your belongings before you meet with the prisoner? Do they have camera's in the cell? Does she visit him like on TV with a window and a phone between them? Not experienced in how one would visit someone in prison. do you actually sit without a window between the criminal and the visitor?

This is why I think a lawyer helped. I don't know how Hamilton jails work, but find it hard to believe it's any differnt then other jails. You go in, show ID, get buzzed through a steal door, take a seat and talk on phones with glass between visitor and inmate. Mommy's don't have special privilege! My mother didn't either and dad was in for something supid, not murder! The only way mommy rabbit could pass CN'S letters directly, would be for DM to read them up against the glass.

I haven't made it past this post yet, so not sure if anyone that's familiar with Hamilton jail answered this yet. Sorry in advance as I read on

 

[Inspector_North]

He can be found guilty of first degree murder even if he was following in the other truck. The evidence of co-conspiring a plot to steal and murder suggests that he was fully engaged. imo

So we really need to look at the "planning a murder" aspect. Do you think there is enough to prove premeditated murder? An if so, what evidence are you considering as most damaging for the accused?

 

[Inspector_North]

Great point. Although, it's (possible) he meant what happened after the fact. When MS supposedly *screwed* up.

Agree! DM was referring to what happened during the mission that went wrong? AM did say that all DM told him was that the mission was a success. Could it be post mission that DM was referring to?

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

the whole "oh the cartridge was found in the back" thing that could be explained any number of ways. I am not trying to be devils advocate or anything of the sort but there are so many factors in regards to the location of the cartridge ( driving, how the gun was shot, angle the gun was shot from etc ) The amount of GSR in the given area is far more telling.

I agree! It could be as simple as the shell casing rolling when they loaded the truck in the trailer. Just an example. MOO

 

[mimimic]

She could have just as easily said she was so tired she slept all the way there. IMO Now she has a reputation.

Yes one that by the looks of things, she likes. puke

 

[andreww]

At this point in the trial

I am 100% sure that shooting TB in the truck was unplanned.
I am 50% sure that DM pulled the trigger. This is based on his letters, since they seem to be for CN's eyes only
I am 80% sure that MS pulled the trigger. This based on how the "F%^$%% up" comments align, both BD's testimony and DM's letters.

There is much evidence of both being at the test drive and at the hanger using the Eliminator. So both are guilty of many things. There is also some evidence that the planning for this mission was different than other missions we heard about.
1) No Lookouts
2) Items planned for the mission, Generator, gloves, tape, and change of clothes.

There is MM's testimony of the mood in the Yukon on the morning of the 7th. Still struggling with this one.

Hopefully we hear something that adds to the mission planning that shows it was a murder mission. MS sending pictures of fireside furniture and sausage frying just before the mission is still very troubling to me.

Because the location TB was shot (in the truck), and that I believe it was unplanned to shoot him there, I am struggling with robbery or planned murder. I didn't want to be here at this point in the trial. But that's me, and my belief in knowing truth over seeing two low life's like DM and MS get worse case guess based on their creepy and disgusting world.

If I allow my emotions to weigh in, both are 100% guilty of first degree.

MOO

For me the fact that Millard was doing "Mission Prep" in Kitchener and texting about the generator, along with the fireside sausage roast pics from Smich tells me this was a planned murder and that both of them were in on it. I also think that a number of others were in on it as well. We look at some of these people like MM, CN, AM, SS, etc. and it seems almost implausible that they don't know something in advance of this crime. Certainly they are all playing stupid about their knowledge after. But lets consider what they all knew about LB or WM, and then take that in to consideration when you listen to someone like MM's testimony. There is a reason she didn't want Smich to go on that mission despite the fact that he'd been on many of them. In my opinion she knew a lot more than she is saying. Same with all of them IMO.

 

[Elisabeth]

You had said they were from movies and tv. And respectfully, you are incorrect.
Open visits are more common in federal prisons when someone has been convicted and sentenced.
Closed visits are usually the case (glass and telephone) when someone has not yet been convicted or sentenced. DM's visits would be closed and behind the cliche glass and with a telephone.

I think it is relevant to a case with a lengthy "Do Not Contact" list to understand how that failed. Those letters are now evidence. Search for drugs and cell phones all you want but letters are a way of contacting. He was arrested for First Degree Murder not shoplifting so yes i expect there to be some screening of his paperwork brought in by all except his lawyer.

 

[MsSherlock]

Why would he say to CN that it was MS's mess he was cleaning up if the letters were to be destroyed?

IMO, it's all part of the manipulation process: the buy in. This was DM's story and he wanted to make sure CN knew the "real story" - he was just being his regular nice guy self trying to help MS clean up a mess MS created when they were simply trying to steal a truck. All he was trying to do was play CN. "I love you- I miss you- you're beautiful- you're "my" secret agent"- "please have my baby"- "MS is a drug addict"- "I was just helping MS clean up his mess"- "I didn't realize how monogamous I wanted to be until I got in here" .

Seems like they redacted many sections of the letters, so IMHO, it's hard to say how much sick manipulation was actually contained in his prose. MOO

 

[Abitcountry]

You mean Hamilton's 'top crown lawyers'. And if they were so great, how come this is the first time in Hamilton's history three of them are needed to try a murder case?

Are you from this area......

 

[andreww]

Why would he say to CN that it was MS's mess he was cleaning up if the letters were to be destroyed?

Because he's feeding her a line of crap. He's a poor rich kid that got tied up with a drug addict. Now he's in jail and has realized his undying love for her. And can you do a couple of felonies for me?

 

[Inspector_North]

For me the fact that Millard was doing "Mission Prep" in Kitchener and texting about the generator, along with the fireside sausage roast pics from Smich tells me this was a planned murder and that both of them were in on it. I also think that a number of others were in on it as well. We look at some of these people like MM, CN, AM, SS, etc. and it seems almost implausible that they don't know something in advance of this crime. Certainly they are all playing stupid about their knowledge after. But lets consider what they all knew about LB or WM, and then take that in to consideration when you listen to someone like MM's testimony. There is a reason she didn't want Smich to go on that mission despite the fact that he'd been on many of them. In my opinion she knew a lot more than she is saying. Same with all of them IMO.

Thanks. Your mission prep part is what I hope the crown can build a little more on. The other murder charges are questionable for judging this case.

 

[Inspector_North]

Because he's feeding her a line of crap. He's a poor rich kid that got tied up with a drug addict. Now he's in jail and has realized his undying love for her. And can you do a couple of felonies for me?

Very good point.

 

[mimimic]

Peter Akman ‏@PeterAkmanCTV 11h11 hours ago Guelph, Ontario
"At the time I was in love with him." Noudga about Millard after arrested and in prison - #Bosma @CTVNews

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 10h10 hours ago
Noudga says she always wanted #Millard to love her like she loved him.

Susan ClairmontVerified account ‏@susanclairmont 10h10 hours ago
Millard goes on to profess his love for Noudga. He didn't love her before because "Frankly, it scared me."

Adam CarterVerified account ‏@AdamCarterCBC 11h11 hours ago
Noudga says he was professing his love for her in almost every letter. #TimBosma #Bosma


I think CN was in love with DM at the time of the murder, and to DM, CN was just one of many. Only after imprisonment did he express his "true" love for her (at the same time asking for illegal help). She got manipulated into covering for him, IMO.

I wrote early on, I wonder how many times DM promised to marry CN as he asked for her assistance. Turns out he's only willing to promise a trip around the world and a baby. He's not really the commitment type.

I think CN knows a lot more about DM's activities than she lets on, but at the same time DM largely protected her like he did AM. OTOH DM did send her a picture of a gun that she does not remember, and she had hung out with the source of the gun, MWJ, more than a few times.

The letters were found by LE so they have them and that's that. There's nothing to bargain.

Totally true. in my opinion. Somewhat similar to the girls in MWJ's (or the guy with the tattoo's on his face) video. Scanky and not afraid of it.

 

[andreww]

Quote Originally Posted by Claroon View Post
She could have just as easily said she was so tired she slept all the way there. IMO Now she has a reputation.

She's an odd bird. I get why she related the bit about the car ride sex act, I just don't get why she felt the need to say she banged him when she got home and when he got up a few hours later. Those details could have easily been left out and nobody would be the wiser, yet she willingly puts it out there. Almost like she's bragging about it.

 

[andreww]

Totally true. in my opinion. Somewhat similar to the girls in MWJ's (or the guy with the tattoo's on his face) video. Scanky and not afraid of it.

Consider the fact that if DM has been so candid with her about Bosma, she is likely fully aware of what happened to LB and WM as well.

 

[Staceys]

After all this with the letters ect...I am thinking DM pulled the trigger of MS's gun...MS was in the Yukon at the time of the shot(s) fired. GSR found all over the RAM truck....but non was found in the Yukon?? (if I remember correctly)....shooting in the truck produced a high concentration of GSR....pulling a tigger even more....pulling a trigger then moving back to the Yukon would have transferred high concetrations of GSR in the Yukon.
The plan was to steal and kill...Only MS was called to the "mission" because the plan was for the seller to never come home.
MS was tasked with cleaning the RAM truck (which he failed at), manning the incinerator (which he likely didn't do properly as per DM's instruction).
MS likely couldn't keep up after it all went down....so DM was scrambling.
CN was the only person he could reach out to in an attempt to manipulate and try to save his *advertiser censored*.
While CN is guilty after the fact - of going along with him ect, she is "not over him" in the least and may never be. She did not "end" the relationship on her terms - an arrest prematurely did....over time and with age she maybe would have came to her senses and likely grown apart from him. She has no closure and will continue to be drawn to him until she finally finds what she is looking for in some else...that will be hard. When they are both in jail I would assume they could write each other.... When she is out and he is still in I would suspect she will visit.

All MOO on a Friday am.

Thinking of the Bosma's today and always...it could have been any family...my husband even. She had it right. The devil smiled at her before taking Tim away....chilling

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Are you following the testimony or media coverage? CN testified on the stand that MB was getting the letters to DM. If you don't believe that is what happened, what is your alternate theory of how the letters came to exist and be moved about, and ended up in evidence? Really don't understand what you're getting at.

Im thinking that the wonders are "how did guards NOT find CN'S letters in DM'S cell"
I'm not finding the part of DM's letter on AC's tweets, but from what DM said, it sounded like he was reading CN's letters through the glass. The tweet said something along the line of DM reading them quickly and thoughts of the letters made him happy. Then the CN pics and paw printed paper was given to him to keep.
CN stated she didn't get any of her letters back from MB, so I'm assuming DM read the letters through the glass, MB took them home afterwards. Reason why CN didn't get them back.