Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #7

[flipflop]

Can they forbid WITNESSES from reading the news?

News today comes in many forms, there is really no way to control who reads it and who doesn't. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

IMO I think both CN and MM will throw their once upon a time BF's (DM & MS) under the bus by telling the truth of what they know. MS has already moved on, so why cover for MS. CN....well, I think reading a newspaper or 2 and she will do the right thing!!! MOO

MM may feel that of the two, DM is the truly evil one that hatched the plan, and MS was just along for the ride and caught up in consequences of a magnitude that he doesn't deserve.

Perhaps MM will not defend what MS got himself into - but still defend MS in the face of DM.

 

[deugirtni]

BBM

But he was not a participant after the fact. We know that his DNA showed up in very relevant places. We know his phone pinged right in the same areas as DM. Circumstantially we know a great deal. We know there were two drivers that night. He did participate and we have to be patient for MM to testify because she has the goods on him I am sure. We just haven't got to him yet.

I think the Crown has done a very good job. They have built the case around DM as the planner, MS the gopher. There is more to come....We must be patient, although I must admit, I'm dying for them to get to MS because I think he talked and talked and talked to MM. MOO

What he ISN'T is the brains in the equation, however, I actually think, if left to his own devices he might have planned this out better than DM - MOO.

Can you remind where MS's DNA showed up in very relevant places? (Having a memory lapse!)

The phone pinging in the same areas... he was there that night for sure... but.. was he even in the vehicle when the shooting/murder occurred?

I guess we are coming up to some very damning information via CN and MM and possibly AM, so perhaps that will give more circumstantial evidence as to MS's actual involvement, aside from being an accessory?

 

[loveisthemovement]

News today comes in many forms, there is really no way to control who reads it and who doesn't. MOO

The same could be said for jury members....

Still can't find anything that says a witness is prohibited from reading about the trial prior to testifying... Still searching.

 

[Gibson67]

I believe DM had some kind of control or leverage over each and every member of his entourage. Once he had his hooks in them he could exert pressure to get what he wanted. I suspect the cross on JV is just that. He knew he had JV on the tax issues and could always use that to force him as well as the financial control. Someone mentioned indentured servant, exactly.

As for others, he has knowledge of online activity or petty crimes that they may not want made public. Some perhaps committed larger crimes, thus the threat of 'if I go down I am taking you with me'. Others, the dangling of opportunity carrots just out of reach. While others it was money and or drugs made available. It was certainly quite the puppet show. MOO

I am still boggled that MS never tried to get out of dodge when DM was arrested. He seemed to bobble about his life completely unaware. But not even an attempt to head to BC by bus or some such attempt like other criminals in this country. JMO

Is it possible that CN was subpoenaed as well? Maybe like Whidden she is being forced to testify. She might not give us as much information for fear of her own involvement and her trial. She sat on information for a whole year. I'm not sure she is going to throw DM under the bus, unless of course she is scorned over Whidden.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Is it possible that CN was subpoenaed as well? Maybe like Whidden she is being forced to testify. She might not give us as much information for fear of her own involvement and her trial. She sat on information for a whole year. I'm not sure she is going to throw DM under the bus, unless of course she is scorned over Whidden.

CN could have been subpoenaed. Perhaps like Whidden she'll have little to say - other than reading any of her texts, and the letters:

From the opening statement:

After Mr. Millard’s girlfriend was charged for her role, police executed a search warrant on her residence in Toronto and seized from her bedroom several letters that were written to her by Mr. Millard over a period of many months while he was in jail after his arrest. These letters varied in terms of content, but one theme of many letters was Mr. Millard wanting a key Crown witness to change his evidence. His girlfriend was asked to reach out to this person to get him to change his evidence.

This was a person Mr. Millard considered a friend and someone who he believed could be convinced to change the his statement to police. This was to assist Mr. Millard as he considered what this person knew about the plan to steal the truck as damning and incriminating information. For example, in one such letter to his girlfriend, Mr. Millard wrote the following: “If he knew his words were going to get me a life sentence , he would want to change them. Show him how he can, and he will change them.”

Despite Mr. Millard’s written direction at the end of many of these letters to “destroy these letters”, they were still in the girlfriend’s bedroom in April , 2014, when she was arrested for her involvement which was almost 1 year after the murder and the arrest of Mr. Millard.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Thats just a flight. I'd assume he has family there. Even so, $9.500 is one hell of a lot to pay for a vacation. I've taken the wife to some pretty nice all inclusive resorts for a quarter of that cost.

Its interesting that so many people here don't bat an eyebrow over JVs expenses, yet everybody went nuts over DMs Baja entry fee. Im not saying JV is doing anything wrong here, just that a lot of what he is saying isn't adding up. Everybody that we have seen that has been associated with DM has some kind of shady background, so why not JV? We already know he was working under the table and paying zero income tax, so its not a stretch to think there might be something else. Its also a little hard to believe that he had a wife that may have been making decent coin, as why would he be living off the Bank of Millard?

Because we know BAJA does not have a $10,000 entry fee! A full trip for all 3 including gas?? I could believe that. Maybe JV can tell us what he spent in gas to go to Mexico for the dune buggy?! As I believe DM'S cost were 10k for his BAJA trip?

ETA: I have a number wrong, someone can correct me. For some reason I'm thinking the BAJA fee was claimed higher??

We do not know who all went to Colombia on that $9,500...wife, kid and brothers?? If it was just JV, then yes that is pretty expensive.

Also, just wondering why everyone keeps saying JV expenses do not add up? He claims he worked long hours 5 to 7 days per week @ $22/hr. So if he worked 10hrs/day times 5 days. That's $4,400/month less taxes (if DM collected them) plus his weekend hours. Or am I missing something??

 

[deugirtni]

Jury members are specifically ordered in court by the judge, not to read any media about the case, nor to discuss it with anyone aside from other jury members. If they did, they are risking being booted off of the jury, and/or causing a mistrial, imho.

Witnesses are asked specifically to leave the courtroom before it is called to session, if their testimony is not yet given. The thing about the witnesses is that they have already given their statements and they are on record, in writing. If they sit through court and hear other testimony which may potentially cause them to mix that testimony in with their own memories, they are probably at risk of perjury, or contempt of court possibly? If their testimony altered from what their statement said at the time of giving it, they are generally asked to refer to their signed statements to refresh their memories. I would imagine the prosecutors/police officers/defence lawyers may also recognize them if they sat through court.

If they read about what happened in court in the media however, they aren't getting the fine details they would hear if they attended court (in breach of their instructions), and they'd only be getting it second hand. I don't think it is possible to order a witness to stay away from any news on the trial, since I believe they are not sworn in until they actually testify. Just my thoughts.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Can you remind where MS's DNA showed up in very relevant places? (Having a memory lapse!)

The phone pinging in the same areas... he was there that night for sure... but.. was he even in the vehicle when the shooting/murder occurred?

I guess we are coming up to some very damning information via CN and MM and possibly AM, so perhaps that will give more circumstantial evidence as to MS's actual involvement, aside from being an accessory?

MS's DNA was found in the gloves found on DM...I believe it was TB'S on the outside of the gloves, DM, MS and CN on the inside as well as an "unknown" male DNA that has yet to be identified to us.

 

[Satchie]

Thats just a flight. I'd assume he has family there. Even so, $9.500 is one hell of a lot to pay for a vacation. I've taken the wife to some pretty nice all inclusive resorts for a quarter of that cost.

I don't believe JV said went to Colombia for vacation, he went to visit his extended family, probably his elderly parents, etc. He may well have taken his whole family, and they would have perhaps had to fly to a remote area. Then, normally when a family member who has emigrated and 'made good' goes back to his poverty stricken family, he will help them out, perhaps with medical expenses, better housing, etc.

 

[RandomName479]

MS's DNA was found in the gloves found on DM...I believe it was TB'S on the outside of the gloves, DM, MS and CN on the inside as well as an "unknown" male DNA that has yet to be identified to us.

I remember this differently....although it was a while ago.....do you have the link to it handy?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Court also saw photos of three Nitrile gloves that were found in Millard's possession when he was arrested in 2013. Blood was found on the gloves, Sloots said, and like the blood found inside the truck, Bosma's DNA could once again not be excluded.

This time, the chances of the DNA coming from someone other than Bosma was estimated at one in 2.2 quadrillion.

A second male DNA profile was also found on the gloves. Investigators checked it against Millard's DNA, which was seized under a warrant after he was arrested.

Millard's DNA could not be excluded from the inside of the gloves, Sloots said. The chances of it coming from someone else was one in 610 trillion.

Female DNA profile discovered

Scientists also compared a female DNA profile found on the gloves against Christina Noudga's DNA profile, which investigators obtained from a drinking straw she had discarded. Noudga, who was Millard's girlfriend at the time, has also been charged as an accessory after the fact.

Noudga's DNA could not be excluded from the DNA found on the gloves. The chances of it coming from someone else was put at one in 2.3 quadrillion, Sloots told jurors.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...od-dna-evidence-links-bosma-millard-1.3469406

DM, CN and TB's DNA were found on the nitrile gloves. When the evidence was first presented, TB's blood was ID'd and the rest was put up to as yet unknown individuals. (Feb 29)

Later in the trial they announced the match for the other samples were DM and CN. There remains no more "unknown individuals". (CBC story was updated Mar 1.)

 

[Staceys]

The same could be said for jury members....

Still can't find anything that says a witness is prohibited from reading about the trial prior to testifying... Still searching.

While witnesses are not prohibited from reading news don't they basically have to stick to stating what was given to LE in a statement?? If they diviate from that, it would cause a problem for either the crown or defence depending on who is calling the witness...so trial facts to date while they can sway testamony or assist a witness in "recalling" info not given to LE in a staement at the time, would be highly questioned under oath by either side.

 

[andreww]

I don't believe JV said went to Colombia for vacation, he went to visit his extended family, probably his elderly parents, etc. He may well have taken his whole family, and they would have perhaps had to fly to a remote area. Then, normally when a family member who has emigrated and 'made good' goes back to his poverty stricken family, he will help them out, perhaps with medical expenses, better housing, etc.

Hey, Im not saying you are wrong, but if that were the case wouldn't it make more sense for the defence to point that out rather than berate the witness about how much he's paid back? This is a large sum of money and I'm finding it very difficult to believe that nobody was was on top of the amount paid or owed. When JV took on the $6K tax debt, why wouldn't he go to millard and say "I paid the $6k, now I only owe you $3.5K"? Something is fishy here and neither side wants to touch it.

 

[RandomName479]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...od-dna-evidence-links-bosma-millard-1.3469406

DM, CN and TB's blood were found on the nitrile gloves. When the evidence was first presented, TB's blood was ID'd and the rest was put up to as yet unknown individuals. (Feb 29)

Later in the trial they announced the match for the other samples were DM and CN. There remains no more "unknown individuals". (CBC story was updated Mar 1.)

Thanks. I thought all the DNA had been identified.....appreciate you providing the info to avoid confusion.

So to be clear....MS's DNA was NOT found?

 

[SnooperDuper]

A good clarification on the gloves:

One glove had DNA compatible with Millard’s inside it and on the outside had DNA compatible with Bosma and more DNA compatible with Christina Noudga, Millard’s girlfriend, Sloots said.

A second glove had DNA compatible with Millard’s and Noudga’s both inside and outside; and a third had DNA compatible with Noudga’s both inside and outside.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...eaned-when-police-found-it-murder-trial-hears

Glove 1: DM inside; TB, CN outside
Glove 2: DM, CN inside; DM, CN outside
Golve 3: CN inside; CN outside.

 

[Kamille]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...od-dna-evidence-links-bosma-millard-1.3469406

DM, CN and TB's blood were found on the nitrile gloves. When the evidence was first presented, TB's blood was ID'd and the rest was put up to as yet unknown individuals. (Feb 29)

Later in the trial they announced the match for the other samples were DM and CN. There remains no more "unknown individuals". (CBC story was updated Mar 1.)

My personal opinion on the gloves is that DM and CN wore them on the evening of May 9th/morning of May 10th to move the incinerator. One was dropped in the dark somewhere near the barn and the other three were hastily put into DM's pocket, where they still were when LE pulled him over to arrest him. He probably did not have a chance to go home and change that day and forgot they were even in his pocket. And the blood on the glove was from touching an area on the incinerator that still had blood pooled on it.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Tim's Tribute ‏@TimsTribute
Join us for our 3rd annual golf tournament! We're looking for sponsors and golfers. http://timstribute.ca/golf for info

 

[andreww]

Thanks. I thought all the DNA had been identified.....appreciate you providing the info to avoid confusion.

So to be clear....MS's DNA was NOT found?

Very little evidence against Smich thus far. But its a long trial.

 

[deugirtni]

MS's DNA was found in the gloves found on DM...I believe it was TB'S on the outside of the gloves, DM, MS and CN on the inside as well as an "unknown" male DNA that has yet to be identified to us.

But similar to the others whose prints were found on the gloves (CN, unidentified male?), it doesn't translate into participation, or even his presence at time of actual murder/shooting. We already know that he was present beforehand, and participated in coverup/cleanup afterward, but we can't really tell if he was in the vehicle when TB was killed, unless of course, we hear more incriminating evidence in regard to that, (which is likely, but jeez the time is ticking away and still nothing to that effect?).

Also, this is from Adam Carter's Live Blog, but I couldn't locate anything about MS's print(s) being found on the glove(s). These are from Feb29 :

3:20 PM
Noudga's DNA could not be excluded from the DNA found on the gloves. The chances of it coming from someone else are 1 in 2.3 quadrillion.

3:21 PM
Blood was also found on those gloves.

3:49 PM
Assistant Crown Craig Fraser now summarizing about the gloves. There was a profile compared against Tim Bosma on the thumb of one of the gloves, a profile compared against Christina Noudga's profile was found on the inside and the outside of the gloves and one other male DNA profile was also found.

4:10 PM
A male DNA profile was found on a cigarette profile at the hangar, and it couldn't be excluded from Mark Smich. The chances of it coming from anyone else are 1 in 11 trillion.

4:13 PM
Millard's DNA could not be excluded from the inside of the black nitrile gloves, Sloots says. Chances of it coming from someone else is one in 610 trillion.