Brendan Dassey's Habeas Corpus Petition Granted

[Safeguard]

Berg's examples of details Dassey gave were appallingly weak. I have to imagine if he was going to throw things out there, he wouldn't pick something especially bad. I mean, a woman who was at that point kidnapped and raped was crying? Doesn't take much imagination.
The body burning smelling bad? Brendan has been to/around Avery bonfires before where tires were used. It doesn't take any imagination at all, just a memory of a prior bonfire.

I think the lack of a list might have something to do with giving the state wiggle room. It keeps their own claims of what is true and what isn't a little more fluid. The less exacting they are in what they claim to be true, the harder it is to pin them down and argue a point. They can move the goalposts, so to speak, when someone gets near one.

bbm
Nailed it.

"Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate."
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

 

[Karinna]

Pertaining to my previous question of why if BD was only initially a witness & why was he mirandised if only initially a witness, which i was reading about elsewhere earlier, all i could find through researching is that it is only suspects that get read the miranda rights.
(quote)
Reading Your Miranda Rights

Since the 1966 Supreme Court ruling in Miranda v. Arizona, law enforcement officers have been required to read a suspect his rights before conducting a custodial interrogation.

While nearly everyone is familiar with “reading your rights”, there are several common-and important-misunderstandings about Miranda rights and how they affect a criminal case.
http://www.totalcriminaldefense.com/criminal-rights/miranda-rights/#


Just asking this question because of what Berg said about it at the hearing.

 

[proudfootz]

The lawyer claims the police did not get frustrated with him when not giving the right answers and did not praise him for giving answers they wanted.


Later
Judge: I believe it only takes on incidence of planting information to taint a confession.


I would not like being this lawyer.

He said that it is legitimate to confront a suspect with details of a crime...but didn't he say Dassey was officially just a witness at the time?

BBM

One of the most famous incidents of interrogators planting information on Brendan is when they had to tell him Teresa was shot in the head because Brendan failed to guess the 'correct' answer.

It is my opinion Brendan was never treated as a witness. In the earliest recorded interview with him the police are already calling him a liar (is that how witnesses are treated?) and they persuade him to say that he saw Teresa as he got off the school bus ('All the other kids on the bus say they saw her and the driver did too, why didn't you?').

IMO the police should be listening to what the witness has to say, not telling the witness what to say.

JMOO

 

[proudfootz]

The fruit from the poisonous tree was in reference to the call that BD made to his mother. IIRC the judge asked if the May 13th interview was not admitted by the State or did the Court rule it inadmissible. And if it wasn't used because it wasn't reliable, then how did the call to his mother get into the trial? (it was the fruit... from the poisonous tree, the unreliable May 13th interview) The same judge even recalls the investigators saying "you better call your mother before we do" (I loved her tone when saying this btw lol). Nirider said that BD's defense didn't know the full totality of the circumstances of that call until post conviction hearings. Kachinsky didn't turn over the O'Kelly interview to his new attorneys. (The May 13th interview came after the defense investigator, O'Kelly's, interview with Brendan and then Kachinsky allowed the investigators to interrogate BD AGAIN without him)

SBM

In several forums I've had people ask me to explain why Brendan 'voluntarily' confessed to his mother in this phone call if he wasn't telling the truth.

It seems pretty clear he was directed to do this - Brendan did not spontaneously start 'confessing'.

Here Wiegert directs Brendan to "Tell her [Barb Janda] exactly what you told us."

https://www.docdroid.net/rRe12qJ/13may06transcript.pdf.html#page=108

Fassbender: "So she can quit blaming us for everything, alright?"

 

[dexter75]

bbm
Nailed it.

"Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate."
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Yes!
( HUGS! )

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Just finished listening and i thought Nirida did an excellent job of putting forth her case for BD.

.
She has had plenty of time to interact with BD, she knows him well! She is very impassioned about his innocence and it showed! Well done, Ms. Nirida!!

 

[missy1974]

Berg's examples of details Dassey gave were appallingly weak. I have to imagine if he was going to throw things out there, he wouldn't pick something especially bad. I mean, a woman who was at that point kidnapped and raped was crying? Doesn't take much imagination.
The body burning smelling bad? Brendan has been to/around Avery bonfires before where tires were used. It doesn't take any imagination at all, just a memory of a prior bonfire.

I think the lack of a list might have something to do with giving the state wiggle room. It keeps their own claims of what is true and what isn't a little more fluid. The less exacting they are in what they claim to be true, the harder it is to pin them down and argue a point. They can move the goalposts, so to speak, when someone gets near one.

bbm
Nailed it.

"Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate."
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

That could be Saul, and it would absolutely make sense.

I don't think there is anything they could "compile", there is nothing that wasn't in the media or fed to BD. IMO


Welcome back Safeguard, you were missed

 

[missy1974]

Pertaining to my previous question of why if BD was only initially a witness & why was he mirandised if only initially a witness, which i was reading about elsewhere earlier, all i could find through researching is that it is only suspects that get read the miranda rights.
(quote)
Reading Your Miranda Rights

Since the 1966 Supreme Court ruling in Miranda v. Arizona, law enforcement officers have been required to read a suspect his rights before conducting a custodial interrogation.

While nearly everyone is familiar with “reading your rights”, there are several common-and important-misunderstandings about Miranda rights and how they affect a criminal case.
http://www.totalcriminaldefense.com/criminal-rights/miranda-rights/#


Just asking this question because of what Berg said about it at the hearing.

He was read his Miranda rights before his 2nd interview on Feb 27th too. And according to the State and LE, he was still just a witness. I'm with you Karinna, I don't understand why if he was just being "interviewed" and not "interrogated". As long as they called it an interview, and told Barb they were just "interviewing" him, it was okay? IMO it's deceptive, not only to Barb and BD, but to the courts. We all know what they were doing (well... most of us lol) JMO


Feb 27th transcript: https://www.docdroid.net/80khPqQ/tworiverspdtranscript.pdf.html

 

[missy1974]

SBM

In several forums I've had people ask me to explain why Brendan 'voluntarily' confessed to his mother in this phone call if he wasn't telling the truth.

It seems pretty clear he was directed to do this - Brendan did not spontaneously start 'confessing'.

Here Wiegert directs Brendan to "Tell her [Barb Janda] exactly what you told us."

https://www.docdroid.net/rRe12qJ/13may06transcript.pdf.html#page=108

Fassbender: "So she can quit blaming us for everything, alright?"

I agree proudfootz! He was totally manipulated into making that call, LE knowing that the call would be recorded.

It's another example of just how easy it was for them to manipulate him. smh

 

[missy1974]

Steve Drizin tweeted yesterday:

Steven A Drizin ‏@SDrizin 21h21 hours ago
Pride. That's what I am feeling. Pride that my former student, Laura Nirider, did a brilliant job today representing Brendan Dassey.

Steven A Drizin ‏@SDrizin 21h21 hours ago
Pride.That a classroom full of students (and faculty) prepared Laura for every question she faced. Did I say Pride?

the second one he tweeted a link to U2's song Pride.

 

[IDK]

I have no personal connection to this case at. all. That being said it warms my heart that Brendan has so many supporters here and elsewhere. ☺

 

[missy1974]

I have no personal connection to this case at. all. That being said it warms my heart that Brendan has so many supporters here and elsewhere. ☺

I absolutely agree IDK

I was just saying to some friends yesterday, that if the 7th Circuit doesn't let Brendan go home, I will lose all faith and hope in the system.

JMO

 

[proudfootz]

Listening to the oral arguments and Nirider does seem to be very able.

At about the 41 minute mark she tells us about how Brendan guessed the shooting took place outside, and the interrogators correct him and suggest the shooting took place in the garage. When the bullet fragment is found Nirider says this doesn't corroborate Brendan's account, but corroborates the police account of the crime.

Who's confessing to whom? It rather looks like the cops are telling Dassey 'what happened' and not the other way around.

JMO.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Listening to the oral arguments and Nirider does seem to be very able.

At about the 41 minute mark she tells us about how Brendan guessed the shooting took place outside, and the interrogators correct him and suggest the shooting took place in the garage. When the bullet fragment is found Nirider says this doesn't corroborate Brendan's account, but corroborates the police account of the crime.

Who's confessing to whom? It rather looks like the cops are telling Dassey 'what happened' and not the other way around.

JMO.

.
AMEN! Hopefully, the 7th Circuit sees it too!!!

 

[dexter75]

I absolutely agree IDK

I was just saying to some friends yesterday, that if the 7th Circuit doesn't let Brendan go home, I will lose all faith and hope in the system.

JMO

Agree

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Karinna]

He was read his Miranda rights before his 2nd interview on Feb 27th too. And according to the State and LE, he was still just a witness. I'm with you Karinna, I don't understand why if he was just being "interviewed" and not "interrogated". As long as they called it an interview, and told Barb they were just "interviewing" him, it was okay? IMO it's deceptive, not only to Barb and BD, but to the courts. We all know what they were doing (well... most of us lol) JMO


Feb 27th transcript: https://www.docdroid.net/80khPqQ/tworiverspdtranscript.pdf.html

I agree missy, it is deceptive. Berg kept referring to how Brendan was being interviewed as a witness, but he was treated as a suspect right from the start IMO.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Berg's examples of details Dassey gave were appallingly weak. I have to imagine if he was going to throw things out there, he wouldn't pick something especially bad. I mean, a woman who was at that point kidnapped and raped was crying? Doesn't take much imagination.
The body burning smelling bad? Brendan has been to/around Avery bonfires before where tires were used. It doesn't take any imagination at all, just a memory of a prior bonfire.

I think the lack of a list might have something to do with giving the state wiggle room. It keeps their own claims of what is true and what isn't a little more fluid. The less exacting they are in what they claim to be true, the harder it is to pin them down and argue a point. They can move the goalposts, so to speak, when someone gets near one.

BBM

The problem I have with that is there is no comparison to the smell of tires burning and a human being being burned up.

Tires being burned doesn't smell anything like a burned human being. Even deceased animals who are disposed of by burning on farms doesn't put off the distinct nauseating smell a burned human body does. To say it smells bad is a gross understatement but I am sure BD would describe it that way with his limited vocabulary. I have read it is due to the diets of humans that makes the stench much worse whether they are found burned or decomposing.

I have had the unfortunate experience of smelling a burned human body and one who was found deceased and decomposing in a lake. There is no other smell like it. Even though both of those happened years ago I can still smell that putrid smell decades later when I think about them.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

BBM

The problem I have with that is there is no comparison to the smell of tires burning and a human being being burned up.

Tires being burned doesn't smell anything like a burned human being. Even deceased animals who are disposed of by burning on farms doesn't put off the distinct nauseating smell a burned human body does. To say it smells bad is a gross understatement but I am sure BD would describe it that way with his limited vocabulary. I have read it is due to the diets of humans that makes the stench much worse whether they are found burned or decomposing.

I have had the unfortunate experience of smelling a burned human body and one who was found deceased and decomposing in a lake. There is no other smell like it. Even though both of those happened years ago I can still smell that putrid smell decades later when I think about them.

.
OMG! :gasp:

I don't ever want to smell that smell! I'm so sorry for you OBE!

I would like to add we cannot speculate on this topic. IMHO, Brendan appears to be Autistic.

Autistic children have a heightened sense of sensory, whether it is sounds, tastes, smells, touch. For example, if you put a feather in an Autistic person's hand it may feel like tar paper to them whereas it feels soft and fluffy and may tickle to someone that is not Autistic.

I am in no way saying the feather example above is an experience of ALL Autistic children, but just wanted to use it as an example of a difference involving a child with a touch sensitivity. My son has a sensitivity to sounds. The mere sound of a fire engine sends him into a sensory overload.

My whole point is that you cannot relate your own experiences (as horrible as they were) as the same experience when you are dealing with a child with special needs, especially one that has Autism. We cannot speculate as to whether or not Brendan attributed the smell of the tires burning in a prior bonfire as the same as someone being burned in a fire.

 

[Karinna]

.
OMG! :gasp:

I don't ever want to smell that smell! I'm so sorry for you OBE!

I would like to add we cannot speculate on this topic. IMHO, Brendan appears to be Autistic.

Autistic children have a heightened sense of sensory, whether it is sounds, tastes, smells, touch. For example, if you put a feather in an Autistic person's hand it may feel like tar paper to them whereas it feels soft and fluffy and may tickle to someone that is not Autistic.

I am in no way saying the feather example above is an experience of ALL Autistic children, but just wanted to use it as an example of a difference involving a child with a touch sensitivity. My son has a sensitivity to sounds. The mere sound of a fire engine sends him into a sensory overload.

My whole point is that you cannot relate your own experiences (as horrible as they were) as the same experience when you are dealing with a child with special needs, especially one that has Autism. We cannot speculate as to whether or not Brendan attributed the smell of the tires burning in a prior bonfire as the same as someone being burned in a fire.

Or is the bonfire story something else BD made up a story about and guessed as he was prone to if he didn't know the answer to? Why did no one else living around there smell that smell if TH was burned in a bonfire?
IMO BD's confession should of been thrown out.
Her remains were found in 3 different locations.

 

[Karinna]

BBM

The problem I have with that is there is no comparison to the smell of tires burning and a human being being burned up.

Tires being burned doesn't smell anything like a burned human being. Even deceased animals who are disposed of by burning on farms doesn't put off the distinct nauseating smell a burned human body does. To say it smells bad is a gross understatement but I am sure BD would describe it that way with his limited vocabulary. I have read it is due to the diets of humans that makes the stench much worse whether they are found burned or decomposing.

I have had the unfortunate experience of smelling a burned human body and one who was found deceased and decomposing in a lake. There is no other smell like it. Even though both of those happened years ago I can still smell that putrid smell decades later when I think about them.

I watched a show that was on Australian t.v. last night where a couple dismembered and burned the body of a poor unfortunate man, and the neighbour called the fire fighters to complain about the smoke and some kind of smell, but she didn't sound that perturbed by it to think it was a human body. She was more concerned about the fire because of the fire danger at the time.
And the forensics couldn't get the man's DNA from the burned bones, but fortunately obtained DNA from the chainsaw that was used.
http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...l/news-story/e1c3fac9f81fa832a25fd10673bed276
Which makes me wonder exactly how TH's DNA was found from badly burned remains?