Broken/open window discovery-a lie?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by madeleine, Feb 5, 2011.

  1. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily. Being very involved in organized religion and being religious are two different things. Perhaps "spiritual" is a better word than religious. I have long turned from organized religion but I am still a spiritual person. Yet the lack of religion or faith in God wouldn't seem to me to make a person more likely to believe the parents did this. Neither would their religious affiliation or how devout they were in its practice imply the opposite (to me). However, people like LS, who seemed to be as devout as the Rs seemed to be might be swayed by that. It is hard to stay impartial when this fervor is shared by someone you are trying to implicate in a crime like this.
    Some of the most heinous crimes are committed by religious people. Hitler was a Christian, too. Religious wars, including the Crusades, have perpetrated terrible acts. Being an atheist may imply that no punishment awaits in the hereafter (actually, the hereafter wouldn't exist either), but I don't see much evidence of that being the motivation for committing horrendous crimes.
    I think as far as the Rs and LS go, it is far simpler. He felt a religious "kinship" with them, and that clouded his ability to consider that they did this.
     


  2. wonderllama

    wonderllama Registered Snoozer

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    That's fair I guess, but would someone with LS's experience and track record really let his judgement be clouded on just this ONE case? Sure, they shared the same spiritual affiliation etc as each other, but in US society in the late 1990s, is that likely to have swayed someone one way or the other irrespective of the evidence?

    I suppose the main reason I question this is that simply forming a bond with someone shouldn't then lead to a series of clues unable to be discounted by other professionals or experts thus muddying the case for all.

    Either the story/evidence presented by LS is legit, possible, or clearly bogus...and if it is either of the first two, his religion shouldn't really be relevant surely?
     
  3. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

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    Apparently he solved other crimes. Did he only solve crimes involving non-religious people?
     
  4. Tadpole12

    Tadpole12 Well-Known Member

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    Heyya wonderllama.

    He certainly was able to ingratiate himself with the Ramseys, with their shared Christian faith and group prayer in the van when they first met.
     
  5. Agatha_C

    Agatha_C New Member

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    Oh my what an ethical man LS was.
     
  6. SunnieRN

    SunnieRN Active Member

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    I truly believe that Lou Smit knew the truth, or what he truly believed was the truth. The entire truth, in Ramsey speak, whatever it may be. Since I believe JonBenets death involved an accident gone very wrong, turning in to deliberate staging, I think he didn't want, or knew, the actual person responsible could not be prosecuted. Could NOT be prosecuted and wanted to 'spare' the R's any further pain.

    Was he right to fabricate evidence, ignore the truths that were plainly in site, defend the lies perpetrated by the R's? Of course not! But I honestly believe he did not 'do this' for money, but perhaps to ensure that the guilty party would not be prosecuted. The other issue I take with this, is all the people who have had their names and reputations harmed, by LS and the Ramsey 'dream team' of lawyers and PR people.

    John made MANY slip ups at first. As time went on and Patsy seemed to become the person under the most suspicion, his words, attitudes and behaviors, seemed to revolve and change. Feeling like he was 'out of the woods'?
     
  7. Agatha_C

    Agatha_C New Member

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    Sunnie,

    I wonder what ever happened to LS power point? The DA after editing it gave him the rest to keep. If his children have this information than maybe they should be made aware of just how much that info is worth. Unless there are stipulations and or JR has them. I read that some media outlets have copies, what would be the reason for not sharing those with the public (besides the snips we've been shown)?
     
  8. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    24 LOU SMIT: There have been some questions

    25 about your activities between let's say 10:30 and

    0159

    1 noon. Do you remember where you were between those

    2 two times?

    3 JOHN RAMSEY: I was either in this bedroom

    4 with Linda Arndt talking about procedure or what

    5 we're going to do, or I was waiting for the phone

    6 call. Because that was 10 to 12, as I recall, was

    7 when he would have called.

    -------------

    he wasn't with LA,she was the one who reported him missing
    lol
     
  9. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    the door blocked by chair claim is another lie IMO
    why?
    because JR claims he went down there AFTER the cops went
    then it means one of the cops removed the chair and put it back.
    really
    must be in their notes then,right?but why bother
    nope
    also,JR claims the lights were "probably off"....he forgot again that the cops went down there BEFORE him


    no no no
    his trip to the basement between 7-9 is a LIE
     
  10. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    he was down there at a different time to move the body (he told Melinda's bf he found JB around 11/this would also fit the time Arndt said he went missing)

    i guess he was afraid that he left evidence(prints on doors,etc) so he made that "other" trip to the basement when he "discovered the broken open window" up
     
  11. Whaleshark

    Whaleshark New Member

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    look what i found on acandyrose:

    0277-09) LOU SMIT: I wanted to direct your attention, if you could, John. This photograph 71, and especially in the entryways there and into the various rooms. Now this must have been taken fairly early on the morning of the 26th. Can you describe what you see there? - (0277-18) JOHN RAMSEY: What is difference is, I think that the door is blocked by this drum table. Here's the chair I said was brought to the door. And it's not. I moved the chair to get into the door. If this was taken before I was down there -- well I put it back. When I went down there, that chair was kind of blocking that entrance right there.
    ___

    What is he saying? His statement seems to be contradictory and self-incriminating. The candyrose website does not show the picture - image isn't there anymore I guess. Is the chair not blocking the door in the photo he's being shown, and if the photo was taken before he says he went down there, does that bust his story? He's saying if it's not blocking the door in that photo, that he put it back? That doesn't work either if it was not there before he went down, and the photo was taken before he supposedly went down there, then when does he put it back? On an additional trip? What?

    And what is he saying about the door being blocked by a drum table? Does anyone know what this photo looks like? Is it a different door? Same door? Is he trying to explain away how the photo does not match his story?
     
  12. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    i think JR forgot that police officers went down there before he claims he did.he also didn't know FW was down there around 6AM.
     
  13. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    http://www.crimelynx.com/alexfoxapr4.html

    HUNTER: You know, I can't tell. And I don't exactly - and I'm not sure that I want to get into that. I guess the proof is in the pudding. I want to see what he has.

    I mean, so far, what I hear from Detective Smit is old stuff, old stuff that has been considered and most of it debunked.
     
  14. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    There are three other people that went down to the basement BEFORE John Ramsey...Officer French, Fleet White, Officer Reichenbach.

    Did they all move the chair or table, enter the room, then replace them?
     
  15. Whaleshark

    Whaleshark New Member

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    or, there are three other people that went down to the basement before John Ramsey SAYS he went down for the first time, right? .....

    And in the pic he's being shown in the statement I bolded above, it sounds like he sees that the chair is not blocking the door in that pic, and if that pic was taken before he says he went down there that morning, then the door would not have been blocking the door at that time.

    He had to have been talking about it being blocked and have gone down there before anyone else was there that morning, and didn't realize the scene and the photos were not going to match his story, nor count on others having been down there before he says he was down there, and it not having been blocked when they looked, if that is the case, right?

    I want to know more about which door was blocked by a drum table.
     
  16. Agatha_C

    Agatha_C New Member

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    WhaleShark,

    The question I want someone to answer is this>>> Are we supposed to believe, that an intruder came through the basement window, had to move a chair from in front of the train room door, to exit the room, passing a small table on his way? Than, instead of using either of those two objects to help him out of the window, he instead (according to JR) carried back with him the suitcase, that was by the WC, to use as the step stool for his exit?

    I have not read one interview where he was asked why he thought the intruder did such a stupid thing. Probable why LS tried to plant the seed of the kidnapper trying to place JBR in the suitcase. He too thought it was odd, that the chair was dragged back into place and not used for the exit of the train room.
     
  17. Whaleshark

    Whaleshark New Member

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    well yeah, me too...that's why my very first post was talking about that kind of thing...and if the chair, maybe a drum table, boxes, all the crap were possibly/probably blocking that door, those rooms, during the holidays...someone is not entering through that door anyway. if they tried, they would be blocked. and again it takes me to that circular argument...one would have to know how to maneuver from that window, that room, that area, through the house, and know where they were going. but if one knew that house to do so, one would also know the easier way to get in the house, and would already know that those areas are blocked, or would have been trapped or something.

    If it was an intruder, they did not enter and exit that way. Even when Lou Smit tried the window as an entrance, a lot of leaves and debris and crap came in with him.
     
  18. Whaleshark

    Whaleshark New Member

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    ...so then when it becomes clear that that room is not the entrance/exit, then one has to question JR's story about him specifically going down to the train room to 'check that window' and see if it 'hadn't been broken again' to see how an intruder would enter. why did he really go down there, and when?

    If he's really going to look around the house for how someone came in and sees all the crap in front of that door down there, he's not going to think the guy came in that way. He would then be looking for other unlocked and opened doors, broken and forced entries, other broken windows....check out the door that maybe Patsy said was always unlocked but had a bell on it - the one to the garage?

    and if he genuinely broke that window and came in that way a long time ago, and he really was checking that window as a legit. entrance/exit point, what did he think of all the crap in front of the door? why would he say he put the chair back in front of the door? when did that happen? why would he put the chair back in front of the door?
     
  19. madeleine

    madeleine Well-Known Member

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    if you check all their interviews,all this pedo intruder coming/going through that window, stepping on the suitcase,strangulation came first,stun gun bs became "THEIR" theory only AFTER LS joined the team.these are his ideas not their feelings/opinions.
    if I have a gut feeling regarding who might have killed my child and why,like JR had those first moments (so he told ppl present) ,that it was an inside job,then i guess i stick to my gut feeling.
    nope,everything changed after LS entered the scene.

    J.Douglas had a much better intruder profile.LS contradicts it.who would you rather trust if you were them and innocent?

    the fact that they took LS's theory and made it sound like it was their own is suspicious and it doesn't happen in real world.their lawyers probably thought it sounded better.
     
  20. Agatha_C

    Agatha_C New Member

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    Wonder, I have some things that I found and after rereading this thread, I thought I would share them with you... Every snip I am about to post can be found at this link (http://www.acandyrose.com/lousmit.htm) and from there each snip has a link to the full article/transcript...


    Couric: “There were reports that there were red fibers found on JonBenet that matched a sweater Patsy Ramsey was wearing.”

    Smit: “Patsy Ramsey was sitting on the same blanket, probably, that night, when she changed JonBenet’s clothing."

    (How does a mother put pants on her sleeping child while sitting down? Lou, should have asked his own wife about this, before he told this “probably” lie…..

    “Smit: “Well, there’s a couple of good reasons for not taking a ransom note into the house. If you’re caught, for instance, taking in a ransom note, you have it in your pocket when you come into the house, for instance, and there’s an alarm that goes in or the police check the house or somebody sees you, it’s pretty obvious what your plan would have been.”

    Smit: “That’s a very important part of this too. And that, I think, shows that the person who was writing this note had plenty of time to do it. And it starts off with “Dear Mr. And - ” and it starts the word M on Mrs. Then it stopped. Between that practice note and the ransom note, by looking at the torn out pieces of the - of the ransom note, I believe there was close to six pages that are missing. Those pages are not found in the house either, Katie.”

    (Let me get this straight. The intruder was worried about being caught with the 2 ½ page RN while he/they were breaking in. However, the 6 page practice RN wasn’t an issue, even though he/they were leaving a murder scene? Uhh, yeah, okay, think I may need another glass of that kool aid Lou.

    Smit: “The main thing you learn as a detective when you go into a crime scene, is you always try to get an interview with the people that are there. If you find a body, and you realize that there’s a homicide that occurred, you always bring them into the station. If you find evidence that they’d been involved in a violent death and they have marks or bruises on them, that goes to their guilt. But if you find that they don’t have these things, it also goes to their innocence.”

    Couric: “And you do it separately? You separate them?”

    Smit: “Yes. And you take all their clothing. And you interview them separately. That’s the time to do it.”

    Couric: “Why wasn’t that done?”

    Smit: “I don’t know. Somebody made a decision not to do that.”

    Couric: “In fairness to the Boulder Police Department though, they did try on several occasions reportedly to get the Ramseys to be interviewed down at the police station, and the Ramseys reportedly refused. I mean if I were a parent and I want to find out who murdered my child, God forbid, I would do everything in my power to help the police solve the case.”

    Smit: “Yes Katie. But you would also go by what your lawyers advised you to do.”

    Couric: “Do you think their lawyers did them a disservice in some ways by protecting them too much, at least in the court of public opinion?”

    Smit: “Yes, in the court of public opinion that is the perception. But from the lawyers’ perception is that they were trying to keep their clients out of jail. That was their main focus was to protect their clients. Their main focus was not public perception.”

    (If they were not guilty Lou, why did lawyers need to keep them out of jail?

    Carol McKinley: These are pictures Lou Smit wants the world to see. They are early crime scene and autopsy photographs taken by the Boulder police and the Boulder County coroner's office in late Dec 1996, right after JonBenét's body was found. JonBenet's empty bed and bedroom, a footprint on the basement floor, a cord embedded in her neck.

    Lou Smit: I've been very reluctant to show these photographs.

    Carol McKinley: But Smit says he's releasing them now because they point to JonBenet's killer. He took the pictures without permission when he resigned from the investigation 2.5 yrs ago. Boulder authorities sued to get them back but Smit won the right to keep them. His decision to go public angers case investigators who want to keep these images sealed.

    Bill Ritter: This is an investigation that you could still pick up tomorrow and work and the less the public knows about intimate details more likely you are to apprehend the killer or killers.

    Lou Smit: I don't blame them a bit Carol. I think that if somebody interfered in my case I think that I'd probably be angry too.

    (Lou, stole the pictures! Sorry but all his credibility just flew out the window, as far as I am concerned. He does not gain my respect. A criminal act, to support another criminal act how disgusting and now I suppose we are to believe that he would steal something, but he wouldn’t lie or help to cover up a crime.. Kiss my grits you pack of criminals!!!!!!

    Lou Smit, the most experienced murder detective to investigate the crime, admits that revealing secret police evidence is the hardest thing he has ever done, but justice for JonBenét demands it.

    (So let me get this straight, its only wrong to give out info if you’re not on the Rs spin team? Hypocrites and criminals!!!

    Erin Moriarty: "No expert could eliminate Patsy Ramsey as the ransom note writer. That's damning isn't it?"

    Lou Smit: "No not at all. You're always going to have similarities in handwriting. To sit down and write a note like that, with all of those details in there after brutally killing your daughter, you never done that before, come on, give me a break."

    (Yet, no one else’s was similar, just Patsy’s. How does that work Lou? I know he cant answer but boy if he could!

    November 12, 2002 - Larry King Live interview with Lin Wood

    (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

    Lou Smit: "I know you're a Christian, John. Would you swear to God you didn't do this?"

    John Ramsey: "I swear to God I didn't do it. I swear to God."

    (And that’s all Lou needed, an “I swear to God.” Wonder if he asked the Patster if she would swear to God?
     

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