Bruce Jenner Becoming a Woman and more...#2

[michmi]

i put it up and it CERTAINLY wasn't to ridicule kris jenner for marrying a woman......she did NOT marry a woman, she married a man and for you to state that shows your lack of understanding or education of the entire subject matter.......the joke material (and it WAS only joke material) was to show that you DO reap what you sow and kris jenner is a horrible person imo and only out for herself and how this reflects on HER.....it's alllllllllll about her, it always has been about her and continues to be about her in her eyes and i don't mean caitlyn............

well, it's about time (65 years worth of time) that it's about caitlyn.............

Bruce Jenner was no prize as a human being either, so they were fabulously suited to one another.

When you compare the two and make a joke that Caitlyn looks better, you're ridiculing Kris. (modsnip)

Bruce Jenner was an Olympic gold medal winner, he led a charmed life and managed to get 3 women and scads of children out of it.

If he's felt "burdened", that's HIS problem and not yours. He has had money and resources to do this long before now. He's making a narcissistic spectacle of it now.

And while you seem to be heavily invested in whether Caitlyn is a man or a woman, you are free to believe what you like. I don't regard "her" as a woman at all. I'm not a fundamental Christian, I am a normal person. (modsnip)

 

[Queen Bee]

Bruce Jenner was no prize as a human being either, so they were fabulously suited to one another.

When you compare the two and make a joke that Caitlyn looks better, you're ridiculing Kris. (modsnip)
Bruce Jenner was an Olympic gold medal winner, he led a charmed life and managed to get 3 women and scads of children out of it.

If he's felt "burdened", that's HIS problem and not yours. He has had money and resources to do this long before now. He's making a narcissistic spectacle of it now.

And while you seem to be heavily invested in whether Caitlyn is a man or a woman, you are free to believe what you like. I don't regard "her" as a woman at all. I'm not a fundamental Christian, I am a normal person. (modsnip).

oh to the contrary...........what i AM "heavily invested in" is the fact that caitlyn is a human being.......(modsnip)

to each his or her own............

 

[TigerBalm]

:wave: Bringing over Caitlyn's quote from the Diane Sawyer interview...

Quote from the interview with Diane (1:06:19)
https://youtu.be/h1uCSE4Wf0s?t=1h6m19s

Q: Do you feel a little bit as if you're saying goodbye to something?
A: Am I saying goodbye to something... I'm saying goodbye to people's perception of me...and who I am. I'm not saying goodbye to me because I've.. this has always been me.

Q: So to everyone watching... if you could say to them when you think of me, please be...
A: Open minded... yeah have an open mind and an open heart. I'm not this bad person, I'm just doing what I have to do.

 

[LaneGirl]

I don't regard "her" as a woman at all.

I'm not trying to change your mind about anything in fact you made some good points that even Bruce mentioned in his interviews about being a bad parent and not fully honest with his wives in his interview with Diane Sawyer (still going by Bruce and he at that time). But may I ask you a question?

What makes you a man or a woman? I'm asking your opinion in all sincerity.

 

[LaneGirl]

:wave: Bringing over Caitlyn's quote from the Diane Sawyer interview...

Quote from the interview with Diane (1:06:19)
https://youtu.be/h1uCSE4Wf0s?t=1h6m19s

Q: Do you feel a little bit as if you're saying goodbye to something?
A: Am I saying goodbye to something... I'm saying goodbye to people's perception of me...and who I am. I'm not saying goodbye to me because I've.. this has always been me.

Q: So to everyone watching... if you could say to them when you think of me, please be...
A: Open minded... yeah have an open mind and an open heart. I'm not this bad person, I'm just doing what I have to do.

BBM - way too many adults and kids suffer by trying to be what others want and think of them and in fact commit suicide. People don't just live through 65 years and then go hummmm I want to change genders. I can imagine the struggle it must be. thank you for posting this.

 

[Momoffourboys]

I, honestly, believe everyone and anyone should be who they choose to be and find happiness. I have an issue with Bruce/Caitlyn doing the interviews, VF spreads, and reality shows. Just as I have an issue with the Kardashians doing the same. But that has nothing to do with him/her being he or she. JMO.

 

[TigerBalm]

Nick from Soundly Awake responds to Drake Bell's twitter comment, that he has since deleted.
Good video to watch...

[video=youtube;la6C4f7YG_Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la6C4f7YG_Q[/video]

 

[cubbeegirl]

Here are links to Caitlyn's previous interview with Diane Sawyer and Parts 1 & 2 of KUWTK About Bruce special, for anyone who may have missed them, or would like to watch them again.

Bruce Jenner The Interview A Diane Sawyer Special [Full Episode]
https://youtu.be/h1uCSE4Wf0s?t=1s

Keeping Up with the Kardashians S10E10 - About Bruce Part 1 - Full Episode
https://youtu.be/J9UssBCX8o8?t=1s

Keeping up with the Kardashians Season 10 Episode 11 - About Bruce PT2
https://youtu.be/N7aUR9bMAK8?t=1s

Also I posted a link up thread to Aydian Dowling's interview with Ellen last week but here is the direct link from EllenTube.
Aydian does a good job of explaining a basic understanding of transgender.
The Astounding Aydian Dowling
http://ellentube.com/videos/0-6j2ve661/


Quote from the interview with Diane (1:06:19)
https://youtu.be/h1uCSE4Wf0s?t=1h6m19s

Q: Do you feel a little bit as if you're saying goodbye to something?
A: Am I saying goodbye to something... I'm saying goodbye to people's perception of me...and who I am. I'm not saying goodbye to me because I've.. this has always been me.

Q: So to everyone watching... if you could say to them when you think of me, please be...
A: Open minded... yeah have an open mind and an open heart. I'm not this bad person, I'm just doing what I have to do.

Thanks for posting these links .....made my day laid up with bags of frozen corn on my ankle go by much quicker !

 

[jjenny]

i put it up and it CERTAINLY wasn't to ridicule kris jenner for marrying a woman......she did NOT marry a woman, she married a man and for you to state that shows your lack of understanding or education of the entire subject matter......

well, it's about time (65 years worth of time) that it's about caitlyn.............

<modsnip>

How did she marry a man when Jenner says he always believed himself to be a woman?

 

[TigerBalm]

Thanks for posting these links .....made my day laid up with bags of frozen corn on my ankle go by much quicker !

You're welcome cubbeegirl, I hope you and your ankle get well quick. :hug:

 

[Nova]

AWKWARD MOMENT ALERT...
My family is accepting. We don't judge. We don't hate. We live and let live.

This happened today:
My youngest son (11) walks in from school and sees my mother and I ooohing and ahhhing over how beautiful Caitlyn Jenner is. He stands staring at the photos for a few moments and then says ... "Well, that is just great. If men can be made to look THAT good...how will I know if a woman I meet and fall in love with is REALLY a man".

I'm still thinking of a reply.

As it happens, an episode of MTV's CATFISH in on TV as I type this.

I think the answer is that most transsexuals have no interest in deceiving anyone they want to have a serious relationship with. Why should they, when the truth will come out eventually? (Sex reassignment surgery isn't undetectable.)

But assuming your son has the misfortune of falling for a dishonest person, sexual identity isn't the only possible deception. Some people lie about their backgrounds, their values ("No, I don't want children, but I'll convince him after we're married."), their families, their jobs, even their names and photos on the internet.

No matter whom your son loves, he should take the time to get to know her very, very well. I trust he doesn't plan to marry someone he only knows from a magazine cover.

P.S. If he's still worried, tell him that those of us who know a few M2F transsexuals can attest that the timbre (general quality) of the voice is almost always a dead giveaway.

 

[Nova]

I am not sure why Kris should be good with this whole thing either. Since Kris isn't a lesbian, why should she be expected to have a relationships with a female?

That was exactly the reaction of my M2F in-law's wife. And nobody thought she was being unreasonable when she got a divorce. (She and her former husband remain friendly, well-behaved with each other and loving parents. She just didn't see herself in a marriage with a woman.)

We shouldn't let our other opinions of Kris Jenner cloud our judgment about her reaction here.

 

[Nova]

To be honest, it bothers me that she is claiming womanhood and isn't a woman. I'm a woman. Caitlyn Jenner is not a woman.

There is no "fluidity" here, that is a load of crap that's being floated around in order to normalize that notion. Sexuality and gender IMO are not fluid. Just no. There are misguided people, there are people who have no self-awareness, yes--but I'm not buying the fluidity myth.

And you know any of that how, exactly?

Do you have any understanding of how complicated sexual reassignment surgery is and how imperfect the results using current technology? And how expensive?

***

But to qualify my last post to you, a lawyer friend who was visiting today says she thinks courts will have trouble with the argument that a person can self-define his/her sex merely by choosing to perform as the opposite gender. She thinks courts will want something more definitive, such as genital surgery. (One can imagine the question in court: "What is to stop any pervert who wants to see women pee from putting on a dress and claiming to be female?")

So while I think you are wrong about the reality (of genitalia determining sex and gender), you may well prove right about the law.

 

[michmi]

And you know any of that how, exactly?

Do you have any understanding of how complicated sexual reassignment surgery is and how imperfect the results using current technology? And how expensive?

***

But to qualify my last post to you, a lawyer friend who was visiting today says she thinks courts will have trouble with the argument that a person can self-define his/her sex merely by choosing to perform as the opposite gender. She thinks courts will want something more definitive, such as genital surgery. (One can imagine the question in court: "What is to stop any pervert who wants to see women pee from putting on a dress and claiming to be female?")

So while I think you are wrong about the reality (of genitalia determining sex and gender), you may well prove right about the law.

I don't care how difficult it is. It doesn't have any bearing on my life at all. I think I'm just sick of seeing this everywhere and nobody pointing out that he was a bad parent, it can be debated into infinity whether the wives knew before they married him or not.

I know I saw with my own eyes the episode of KUWTK and Kris flat-out told Bruce he had lied to her and had portrayed it as merely crossdressing. Bruce didn't say a word denying that.

So there's something you tolerate (dressing in women's clothing in private) because you love someone and then there's someone hiding this huge secret that would have sent your life in an entirely different direction had you known before.

I think I'm just wore out on the subject. I don't have a horse in the race but for all those who want everyone to just accept these things, I can tell you that while I will appear to accept in a public setting, it's only to pacify those who want to force everyone to open their welcoming arms to this stuff. Not me.

 

[La Louve]

When she gives interviews to the press about this very topic, kind of seems it should be open for discussion.

I'm sorry but could you provide a link for Bruce opening up the discussion about what genitalia he planned to keep? The only thing I have seen so far is in part 1 of About Bruce (KUWTK) the girls asked Bruce how much he was going to have done in the reassignment surgery and he specifically stated he was not planning to have his penis removed. So from my perspective of seeing the Diane Sawyer interview and the two KUWTK episodes, Bruce pretty much closed off any discussion about genital surgery.

TIA

 

[La Louve]

And you know any of that how, exactly?

Do you have any understanding of how complicated sexual reassignment surgery is and how imperfect the results using current technology? And how expensive?

***

But to qualify my last post to you, a lawyer friend who was visiting today says she thinks courts will have trouble with the argument that a person can self-define his/her sex merely by choosing to perform as the opposite gender. She thinks courts will want something more definitive, such as genital surgery. (One can imagine the question in court: "What is to stop any pervert who wants to see women pee from putting on a dress and claiming to be female?")

So while I think you are wrong about the reality (of genitalia determining sex and gender), you may well prove right about the law.

BBM
Kinda like this pervert? http://www.eonline.com/news/662503/...-was-transgender-so-i-could-shower-with-girls

lol

 

[jjenny]

I'm sorry but could you provide a link for Bruce opening up the discussion about what genitalia he planned to keep? The only thing I have seen so far is in part 1 of About Bruce (KUWTK) the girls asked Bruce how much he was going to have done in the reassignment surgery and he specifically stated he was not planning to have his penis removed. So from my perspective of seeing the Diane Sawyer interview and the two KUWTK episodes, Bruce pretty much closed off any discussion about genital surgery.

TIA

He said he is keeping his original genitals. I am not sure what other information do you need.

 

[La Louve]

So how exactly does that open it up for discussion? If he had said "I haven't decided yet" or "for now, no, but maybe someday I will" then I could see how the subject is open for discussion, as the topic seemed to be he couldn't be a "real" female if he kept his genitalia.

I guess we need to agree to disagree.

 

[Nova]

I don't care how difficult it is. It doesn't have any bearing on my life at all. I think I'm just sick of seeing this everywhere and nobody pointing out that he was a bad parent, it can be debated into infinity whether the wives knew before they married him or not.

I know I saw with my own eyes the episode of KUWTK and Kris flat-out told Bruce he had lied to her and had portrayed it as merely crossdressing. Bruce didn't say a word denying that.

So there's something you tolerate (dressing in women's clothing in private) because you love someone and then there's someone hiding this huge secret that would have sent your life in an entirely different direction had you known before.

I think I'm just wore out on the subject. I don't have a horse in the race but for all those who want everyone to just accept these things, I can tell you that while I will appear to accept in a public setting, it's only to pacify those who want to force everyone to open their welcoming arms to this stuff. Not me.

As someone else said, this really is a "walk a mile in her shoes" type of thing. Myself, I came out as gay as a teen and have been very open in the half-century since.

But everyone isn't I and my circumstances were unique to me. My husband married his high school sweetheart and had two children before he decided he could no longer live a lie. But he fully intended to live a straight life when he married. Is he proud of keeping that secret from his wife? No. But she, of all people, forgave him immediately, knowing full well that he had no role models as a closeted gay teenager in the Midwest in the 1950s.

So, sure, I think it would have been better if Jenner had been honest with his wives before he married them. (Don't assume they wouldn't have married him anyway.) But I can only imagine what it takes to announce you are a transsexual when you have been a world-renowned icon of masculinity, the so-called "Greatest Athlete in the World"!

***

But when I mentioned "difficulty" in the post you quoted, I was talking about your insistence that everyone have sex-reassignment surgery before being referred to as his or her desired sex. My point was you are demanding a high price just for people to live the very honesty you insist Bruce Jenner should have employed.

 

[jjenny]

As someone else said, this really is a "walk a mile in her shoes" type of thing. Myself, I came out as gay as a teen and have been very open in the half-century since.

But everyone isn't I and my circumstances were unique to me. My husband married his high school sweetheart and had two children before he decided he could no longer live a lie. But he fully intended to live a straight life when he married. Is he proud of keeping that secret from his wife? No. But she, of all people, forgave him immediately, knowing full well that he had no role models as a closeted gay teenager in the Midwest in the 1950s.

So, sure, I think it would have been better if Jenner had been honest with his wives before he married them. (Don't assume they wouldn't have married him anyway.) But I can only imagine what it takes to announce you are a transsexual when you have been a world-renowned icon of masculinity, the so-called "Greatest Athlete in the World"!

***

But when I mentioned "difficulty" in the post you quoted, I was talking about your insistence that everyone have sex-reassignment surgery before being referred to as his or her desired sex. My point was you are demanding a high price just for people to live the very honesty you insist Bruce Jenner should have employed.

As I recall at least one of them said she wouldn't have married him if she knew.
And once he married and divorced the first one (because of his gender identity issues), he did the same to two other women. To me, it seems very dishonest.