Burke Ramsey Files 750 Million Dollar Lawsuit Against CBS

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Sherlockknows

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I've never heard it as "Burkey." Did anyone else ever call him that besides you?

The person who created the digital remastering. There are differing versions. It is six seconds. The person on the call never said she heard anything words wise, but then she was shouting Patsy at the very same time. Either she heard other people or she didn't.


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BBB167893

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Was there a local ring or other attacks or other abused neighbours by their parents reported over the years?

Was there similar attacks in the neighbourhood?

None that I know of.

Is there anyone in the family greater family who was a pervert?

All we have is speculation on that. It's been thought that Patsy's father was a child abuser, and the police did investigate that, but after 30 years, they wouldn't have found anything anyway.
 

Sherlockknows

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Ah. Then I'm guessing we may have differing opinions on the definition of "reasonable doubt." "Almost possible" is more the realm I'd put the tDNA from this case, and that's not reasonable doubt in my book.

Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance.

Plato



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BBB167893

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Your instinct would be to bring the kid to hospital, the suggestion here on this thread is one of the parents found the daughter in a pile of blood, manufactured a choking instrument, and wrote a note. You don't find this strange?

Speaking for myself, I find ALL murders of children strange.

And there was no pool of blood. No blood at all.
 

BBB167893

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df990466c5f1ac7e66fe7bc7daa9d122.jpg


You can't have an injury like this without blood



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There was blood, INSIDE the head. None outside. It didn't break the skin.
 

Sherlockknows

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None that I know of.



All we have is speculation on that. It's been thought that Patsy's father was a child abuser, and the police did investigate that, but after 30 years, they wouldn't have found anything anyway.

What do you think, mother both attacks, son then mother? The Coroner, said closer to 10 then 5, much closer, which says to me she was hit nit long after returning which says Mum. I have a problem believing the Kid hit her, then waited an hour and a half to strangle her. Also if the Mum did hit her I am sure she took her pulse....waited an hour and a half to finish her off....odd either way


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Sunshine4Me

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We do have LHP saying she took JB to the bathroom and shut the door and made her scream. But I would believe it if there were MORE accounts of PR losing her cool. To me that excerpt sounds like something from Darnay.


'She' refers to PR?
I have always taken the bathroom account if true, to be a consequence of combined poor toilet training and sexual abuse. Every parent with children in diapers or pull-ups who still wets themselves every night knows there is a possibility of a rash, at the least irritation of the skin. And Jonbenet had vaginitis and yeast infections if we believe her doctor. Add on to that the sexual abuse that she suffered which was revealed in her autopsy. If the bathroom account is true Patsy could well have been wiping her and she screamed because it hurt, because it would be pretty sore, not because Patsy was being rough. She did take her to the doctor many times and the records are sealed, so I do question the true reason but it does show she was concerned. I could be wrong and Patsy may have been rough. But if I am right Patsy should have taken extra care. It just may not have taken rage to make a child scream when dealing with such sensitive areas if all that really was going on. I've felt like a monster wiping my children gently when they were in diapers and had small rashes, but they had to be wiped. But I do wonder when LHP gave her account, before or after she was accused by the Ramsey's? If before that would give it more credence to me.
 

andreww

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Speaking for myself, I find ALL murders of children strange.

And there was no pool of blood. No blood at all.

There was blood from her vagina. IMO the reason that the didn't call for help.


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DrollForeignFaction

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I have always taken the bathroom account if true, to be a consequence of combined poor toilet training and sexual abuse. Every parent with children in diapers or pull-ups who still wets themselves every night knows there is a possibility of a rash, at the least irritation of the skin. And Jonbenet had vaginitis and yeast infections if we believe her doctor. Add on to that the sexual abuse that she suffered which was revealed in her autopsy. If the bathroom account is true Patsy could well have been wiping her and she screamed because it hurt, because it would be pretty sore, not because Patsy was being rough. She did take her to the doctor many times and the records are sealed, so I do question the true reason but it does show she was concerned. I could be wrong and Patsy may have been rough. But if I am right Patsy should have taken extra care. It just may not have taken rage to make a child scream when dealing with such sensitive areas if all that really was going on. I've felt like a monster wiping my children gently when they were in diapers and had small rashes, but they had to be wiped. But I do wonder when LHP gave her account, before or after she was accused by the Ramsey's? If before that would give it more credence to me.

It was after. I generally find her very believable but she never said anything like that until years later, filtered through Darnay. It doesn't seem to be anything Steve Thomas was aware of, unless he left it out of his book.
 

Tadpole12

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I have always taken the bathroom account if true, to be a consequence of combined poor toilet training and sexual abuse. Every parent with children in diapers or pull-ups who still wets themselves every night knows there is a possibility of a rash, at the least irritation of the skin. And Jonbenet had vaginitis and yeast infections if we believe her doctor. Add on to that the sexual abuse that she suffered which was revealed in her autopsy. If the bathroom account is true Patsy could well have been wiping her and she screamed because it hurt, because it would be pretty sore, not because Patsy was being rough. She did take her to the doctor many times and the records are sealed, so I do question the true reason but it does show she was concerned. I could be wrong and Patsy may have been rough. But if I am right Patsy should have taken extra care. It just may not have taken rage to make a child scream when dealing with such sensitive areas if all that really was going on. I've felt like a monster wiping my children gently when they were in diapers and had small rashes, but they had to be wiped. But I do wonder when LHP gave her account, before or after she was accused by the Ramsey's? If before that would give it more credence to me.

Heyya Sunshine4Me

Yes. It could have been painful, with the slightest touch.
Also the repetition of the event, upsetting for a child. The scream and drop reaction of a child not wanting to go to the time out zone/ alone talk place.

http://www.webbsleuths.com/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=2011&forum=DCForumID101

"JonBenet wet the bed again that night, didn't she? She woke up and told you about it before you were even undressed and you simply "lost it." You took her into the bathroom. It was the same destination you always took JonBenet when it was time to punish her for bedwetting. You forget that I saw you take here there so many times before, shutting the door tightly behind you, so her screams could not be heard. Except this time there was "an accident," wasn't there? You picked up the long, black flashlight you had brought with you, and you swung it. You swung it first at her crotch and then next at her head. Maybe you meant to scare her and maybe you didn't mean to kill her, but you did."
 

Sherlockknows

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Heyya Sunshine4Me

Yes. It could have been painful, with the slightest touch.
Also the repetition of the event, upsetting for a child. The scream and drop reaction of a child not wanting to go to the time out zone/ alone talk place.

http://www.webbsleuths.com/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=2011&forum=DCForumID101

"JonBenet wet the bed again that night, didn't she? She woke up and told you about it before you were even undressed and you simply "lost it." You took her into the bathroom. It was the same destination you always took JonBenet when it was time to punish her for bedwetting. You forget that I saw you take here there so many times before, shutting the door tightly behind you, so her screams could not be heard. Except this time there was "an accident," wasn't there? You picked up the long, black flashlight you had brought with you, and you swung it. You swung it first at her crotch and then next at her head. Maybe you meant to scare her and maybe you didn't mean to kill her, but you did."

Nothing on the torch which was on the counter in the kitchen I think, suggested coming in contact with the Child. I think focussing on it, and creating places where only a torch could be swung and not a club might bring people to believe this is who did it, and where and why. I.e. Torch in the Kitchen the kids and stealing Pineapple.

"Pathologist Weiner Spitz said the torch found on the kitchen counter at their home could have caused the fracture.

In a graphic reenactment, they brought in a boy - aged the same as JonBenet's brother Burke who was 9-years-old at the time of her death - and handed him a similarly-sized torch, so they could see if he had the strength to bash in the skull.

But forensic scientist Henry Lee disputed the theory, pointing out that there was no hair or DNA on the torch."


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buggiegirl

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I am well aware of the difference, thanks. Since the GJ chose to indict on these charges, it is a fact that the evidence presented to them made them believe that the parents were both guilty of the crimes for which they were indicted. Otherwise, no True Bill.

Grand juries only have to find probable cause though. A much lower bar than guilt. And I'm only saying that because I always have to remind myself that as much as I'd love the grand jury info we got a while back to be The Answer, it's just a few counts they found probable cause to take to trial. It does not mean that same jury would have found them guilty of those crimes, it doesn't mean that is how it all went down. I think the grand jury's decisions are important clues or evidence, but we have to weigh them appropriately and sometimes I think they get too much value.
 

andreww

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Grand juries only have to find probable cause though. A much lower bar than guilt. And I'm only saying that because I always have to remind myself that as much as I'd love the grand jury info we got a while back to be The Answer, it's just a few counts they found probable cause to take to trial. It does not mean that same jury would have found them guilty of those crimes, it doesn't mean that is how it all went down. I think the grand jury's decisions are important clues or evidence, but we have to weigh them appropriately and sometimes I think they get too much value.

I take the GJs findings a little more seriously. This was a year long affair and was likely pretty thorough. If they signed off on those true bills I have to believe that the evidence was there. And, if the evidence wasn't there, why did Hunter not just say that? Why did he lie and bury the findings?
 

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Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance.

Plato



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"Too much quoting causes slow and painful death of personality,"
Anonymous

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Sunshine4Me

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Heyya Sunshine4Me

Yes. It could have been painful, with the slightest touch.
Also the repetition of the event, upsetting for a child. The scream and drop reaction of a child not wanting to go to the time out zone/ alone talk place.

http://www.webbsleuths.com/cgi-bin/dcf/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=2011&forum=DCForumID101

"JonBenet wet the bed again that night, didn't she? She woke up and told you about it before you were even undressed and you simply "lost it." You took her into the bathroom. It was the same destination you always took JonBenet when it was time to punish her for bedwetting. You forget that I saw you take here there so many times before, shutting the door tightly behind you, so her screams could not be heard. Except this time there was "an accident," wasn't there? You picked up the long, black flashlight you had brought with you, and you swung it. You swung it first at her crotch and then next at her head. Maybe you meant to scare her and maybe you didn't mean to kill her, but you did."
Thanks for the link. I'd always heard that account had originated with LHP but I had never seen it to read.
 

SerenitySprings

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Ok so I read the first chapter from the above link and I don't even know what to say. May I assume that was a draft? An actual book was never published, right? PR was a lady from the south. I seriously doubt she was asking the house keeper for sex advice. The whole chapter seems so refutable!

However, I do understand now what a previous poster was trying to convey about JB screaming in the bathroom.


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DrollForeignFaction

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Ok so I read the first chapter from the above link and I don't even know what to say. May I assume that was a draft? An actual book was never published, right? PR was a lady from the south. I seriously doubt she was asking the house keeper for sex advice. The whole chapter seems so refutable!

However, I do understand now what a previous poster was trying to convey about JB screaming in the bathroom.


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It was from a book she intended to write and that Darnay Hoffman fought for her to be able to publish based on her GJ testimony. He very likely wrote the linked excerpt. Eventually LHP was denied the opportunity to write a book that would include her GJ testimony.

I can't speak to the accuracy of everything in that excerpt but her comments about PR having sexual issues/not liking sex are consistent with comments she made as early as Feb 1997 (along with saying PR was messy but a loving mother, as additional sources have stated) and corroborated by additional comments made by their former housekeeper, Linda Wilcox, about the Ramseys not having much, if any, of a sex life.
 

otg

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The list

Grand Jury witnesses

Some of the people known to have testified before the Ramsey grand jury:

Mike Archuleta -- Private pilot who was scheduled to fly the Ramseys to their Michigan vacation home the day after Christmas 1996.

Linda Arndt -- Now-retired Boulder Police detective, the first investigator on the scene.

Dr. Francesco Beuf -- JonBenet's pediatrician.

Debbie Chavez -- Colorado Bureau of Investigation forensics expert.

John Douglas -- Former FBI criminal profiler hired by the Ramseys.

Michael Everett -- Among the first Boulder Police detectives assigned to the case.

John and Barbara Fernie -- Friends of the Ramseys who were summoned to the home after JonBenet was discovered missing.

Richard French -- One of the first Boulder patrol officers on the scene. He searched the house shortly after arriving, without locating JonBenet's body.

Ron Gosage -- Boulder Police detective working the case from its first days.

Pam Griffin -- Ramsey family friend and seamstress who assisted with JonBenet's beauty pageant costumes.

Jane Harmer -- Boulder Police detective involved in the case from the beginning.

George Herrera -- CBI fingerprints expert.

Linda Hoffmann-Pugh -- Ramseys' housekeeper at the time of JonBenet's death.

The Rev. Rol Hoverstock -- Minister from the Ramseys' church, summoned to the home in the first hours of JonBenet's disappearance.

Larry Mason -- Boulder Police sergeant removed from the case in its second week when he was wrongly accused of leaking information to the press.

Dr. John Meyer -- Boulder County coroner; he performed the autopsy on JonBenet.

Fred Patterson -- Boulder Police detective, among the first on the scene.

Carol Piirto -- Burke Ramsey's third-grade teacher.

Merv Pugh -- The husband of Linda Hoffmann-Pugh; he had done some work at the home a month before the murder.

Burke Ramsey -- JonBenet's brother, now 12, the only person other than her parents known to be in the house at the time she disappeared.

Lou Smit -- Retired Colorado Springs homicide detective who worked on the case for the district attorney's office.

Tom Trujillo -- A Boulder Police detective on the case since its earliest days.

Chet Ubowski -- Colorado Bureau of Investigation handwriting analyst who concluded that Patsy Ramsey may have written the ransom note linked to JonBenet's murder.

Barry Weiss -- Among the first Boulder patrol officers at the Ramsey home.

Fleet and Priscilla White -- Ramsey friends called to the house the morning of JonBenet's disappearance. Fleet was in the basement with John Ramsey when the child's body was found.

Tom Wickman -- The Boulder police detective sergeant who has supervised the investigation since the early days.

September 22, 1999
Oh, noes! I see there was one name that was left off the list. Susan Stine was one of the last people called to testify just before the RGJ wrapped up.
 

UKGuy

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"Too much quoting causes slow and painful death of personality,"
Anonymous

:shame:
:facepalm:

flourish,
Yup, especially if the quoter does not know their Greek Doxa from their translated biblical Doxa.

.
 
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