By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[Cottonstar]

I think there was more than one intruder. One wrote the ransom note, someone else was with JonBenet. And yet possibly another accomplice was at home, but the mastermind.

The person who was with Jonbenet hit her on the head with the flashlight when she screamed, screwing up all their plans. The person who wrote the ransom note had to fix the situation, by strangling her. JMO

I thought there was tape over mouth?


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[juli99]

I thought there was tape over mouth?


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Placed on the mouth after the blow to the head in case she woke up. It was not obvious at the time how serious the head injury was. I believe she willingly went with the person to the basement at first, perhaps because it was Santa Claus, or for some other reason.

 

[AndHence]

Having two intruders only increases the likelihood of the body being taken from the house; it makes the actual crime scene that was found that much more improbable.

 

[juli99]

Having two intruders only increases the likelihood of the body being taken from the house; it makes the actual crime scene that was found that much more improbable.

I don't think they wanted to deal with the body. They were not planning to kill her and had no plan to deal with a body. If they did try to take the body, the plan was quickly abandoned.

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[Tadpole12]

BB, I'll def have to read more re
'compulsive assemblage of irresistible thoughts'
TTD

https://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&.......0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.-s4OK0ZyU1w

 

[UKGuy]

Yes. I can actually see Patsy doing everything else, but not the strangulation. And I struggle to see John letting Patsy write that ransom note (among other things), which is why I don't see him as involved.

juli99,
If you read all the interviews, compare and contrast the evidence, it turns out that John, Patsy and Burke are all involved.

The parents have stated publicly that Burke was wide awake during the 911 call, then sent to bed to fake being asleep.

Patsy's forensic forensic evidence is all over JonBenet, including the sticky side of the tape on her mouth, and fibers embedded into the knotting on the ligature around JonBenet's neck.

Fibers from John's Israeli manufactured shirt, i.e not common US fibers, were found on JonBenet's genital area, and John says he never assisted in redressing JonBenet for bed.

Burke's touch dna was found on JonBenet's pink barbie nightgown which was also bloodstained with her blood, not something that would happen accidently during a homicide.

The alleged intruders left no identifiable forensic traces or dna at any location in the house, how come?

I do not know who killed JonBenet but the forensic evidence and the Grand Jury seem to suggest that the parents instituted a staged crime-scene in the wine-cellar.

John's big mistake is that he has far to much to say about the state of the basement, something in real life he cared little about, that was LHP and Patsy's domain !

IMO JR tweaked Patsy's initial staging and may even have relocated JonBenet's body from the crawl space to the wine-cellar, thus explaining why Fleet White saw nothing amiss when he looked into the wine-cellar?

Because JonBenet is staged so everyone else can say We all went to bed soon after arriving back from the party she had to be wearing her White Gap Top, and not the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown, which alike her dressed ponytails means she was awake and prepared for bed.

Significantly the pink barbie nightgown was not left say in her bedroom or Burke's bedroom as this would dilute the claim of an intruder abduction.

The way I read it is: the parents are either covering for each other, or they are covering for Burke?

There can really be no other explanation this side of Nostrodamus or the Mayan Apocalyse, etc.

.

 

[archieil]

assuming it was my version of the intruder.

I wonder how many dead would be in the house Burke met him in the night.

I am near sure he knew John and Patsy well enough to call it an internal affair.

 

[PositiveLight]

BR in an angry fit hit JBR with a flashlight on the head. Upon finding JBR (or BR getting his mother to come help wake JBR up) she thought she was dead when in fact she was on the brink of death. She set the scene during the night and unknowingly was actually the killer by strangling her with the garrote. She staged it to look like a IDI. She wrote the note and placed it on the spiral staircase just in case JR found it first. This was all in an attempt to keep from loosing yet another child. She was unaware at that time that BR couldn't be tried in court. She never changed clothes that night which was out of the ordinary for her. She was too caught up to remember to change clothes. I believe JR only found out during the 911 call. He realized something was fishy and started looking for JBR as soon as he got a chance. Possibly moving her to the wine cellar himself because he knew already what had been searched and what hadn't. He was missing for an hour. Plenty of time to stage the scene and TRY to undo the impending damage of the ransom note. JMO
They were left to deal with the aftermath and contaminate the scene as much as possible inviting ppl over etc.
If the ransom note was ever real, why the hell would you invite over everyone and a swarm of cops when the note specifically stated she would die.
The only reason is if you knew the note was bogus and she was already dead.

 

[Cottonstar]

BR in an angry fit hit JBR with a flashlight on the head. Upon finding JBR (or BR getting his mother to come help wake JBR up) she thought she was dead when in fact she was on the brink of death. She set the scene during the night and unknowingly was actually the killer by strangling her with the garrote. She staged it to look like a IDI. She wrote the note and placed it on the spiral staircase just in case JR found it first. This was all in an attempt to keep from loosing yet another child. She was unaware at that time that BR couldn't be tried in court. She never changed clothes that night which was out of the ordinary for her. She was too caught up to remember to change clothes. I believe JR only found out during the 911 call. He realized something was fishy and started looking for JBR as soon as he got a chance. Possibly moving her to the wine cellar himself because he knew already what had been searched and what hadn't. He was missing for an hour. Plenty of time to stage the scene and TRY to undo the impending damage of the ransom note. JMO
They were left to deal with the aftermath and contaminate the scene as much as possible inviting ppl over etc.
If the ransom note was ever real, why the hell would you invite over everyone and a swarm of cops when the note specifically stated she would die.
The only reason is if you knew the note was bogus and she was already dead.

When and how did the neck trauma occur?


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[PositiveLight]

When and how did the neck trauma occur?



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Well that's my summed up version. The neck trauma happened during the cover up. She had to make it look as dramatic as possible. To equal the ransom note. (not sure which would come first the note or the coverup, could be either really). The more dramatic the less it would look like the family did it. She did it all to save her son. JBR was gone (well she thought she was anyway). At that point she would have to take emotions out of it and get it done. PR did nothing on a small scale. `

 

[PositiveLight]

In reality PR was the actual person who took her life. She wasn't dead yet when the ligature was applied. Although the head wound would've caused death within about 45 minutes. Imagine how Patsy felt when she realized she was the one who did it and not BR? BR caused the head injury and PR did the neck and rest of damage. JMO. I Still consider BR the culprit though. JMHO

 

[UKGuy]

In reality PR was the actual person who took her life. She wasn't dead yet when the ligature was applied. Although the head wound would've caused death within about 45 minutes. Imagine how Patsy felt when she realized she was the one who did it and not BR? BR caused the head injury and PR did the neck and rest of damage. JMO. I Still consider BR the culprit though. JMHO

PositiveLight,
I doubt Patsy killed JonBenet. She was likely already dead by the time Patsy decided to act. This will be why JonBenet has a ligature around her neck , tied to a piece of paintbrush.

Its intended to fake how she died, how the killer really assaulted and killed JonBenet is hidden beneath her redressing and ligature.

Else why not just leave her lying on her bed naked from the waist down?

.

 

[PositiveLight]

PositiveLight,
I doubt Patsy killed JonBenet. She was likely already dead by the time Patsy decided to act. This will be why JonBenet has a ligature around her neck , tied to a piece of paintbrush.

Its intended to fake how she died, how the killer really assaulted and killed JonBenet is hidden beneath her redressing and ligature.

Else why not just leave her lying on her bed naked from the waist down?

.

Totally respect your introspect. But didn't they state in the CBS doc that the ligature was what ended her life? Trying to remember.
I believe the reason they didn't leave her in bed naked is to protect the family. Well what was left of it. It had to look like a foreign faction tortured her before killing her. I believe she was laying there unconscious appearing to be dead to PR. PR did the worst things to her that "a family member" would never do and to cover for the sexual abuse she inserted the paint brush end. (There was a sliver of it found in her vaginal wall.) Redressed her and set the scene. Now whether she was always in the closet or JR put her there that morning is up in the air. I feel he did move her there. This is my opinion of course.
What do you think happened? I'd like to hear your ideas!

 

[UKGuy]

Totally respect your introspect. But didn't they state in the CBS doc that the ligature was what ended her life? Trying to remember.
I believe the reason they didn't leave her in bed naked is to protect the family. Well what was left of it. It had to look like a foreign faction tortured her before killing her. I believe she was laying there unconscious appearing to be dead to PR. PR did the worst things to her that "a family member" would never do and to cover for the sexual abuse she inserted the paint brush end. (There was a sliver of it found in her vaginal wall.) Redressed her and set the scene. Now whether she was always in the closet or JR put her there that morning is up in the air. I feel he did move her there. This is my opinion of course.
What do you think happened? I'd like to hear your ideas!

PositiveLight,
The autopsy conclusion is: Cause of death of this six year old female is asphyxia by strangulation asociated with craniocerebral trauma.

So what finally killed JonBenet, the whack to her head, a hand over her mouth or both? The coroner is not saying he is just saying the injuries are correlated with her death.

The point being is the Ligature Strangulation need not be what killed JonBenet. That might represent staging as presented. This does not mean someone did not ligature strangle JonBenet, just that what we see as the end result might be staged?

Could be someone have manually stranglled JonBenet, maybe to keep her quiet, but overdid it, resulting in a coma? Then someone attempted to finish her off by whacking her on the head, in this they may have succeeded.

So to explain away any physical forensic evidence someone tied the ligature and paintbrush to JonBenet's neck pulled tight, thus resulting in a ligature furrow?

The autopsy report does not mandate in which order JonBenet's injuries arrived or that the asphyxiation was only by ligature.

JR obviously tweaked the staging to suit later circumstances, e.g. first it was an Inside Job then later he ran with Lou Smit's intruder theory, suddenly remembering all the housework and time he spent down in the basement!

The pink barbie nightgown is probably from a prior staging that JR might have emended, his fibers are on JonBenet in an area they should not be, and not any old US cotton fibers, nope these are distinctive fibers all the way from Israel.

This must mean JR helped stage JonBenet or is responsible for her internal injuries?

IMO Patsy is just helping out, she is standing by her man, whether that is John or Burke?

.

 

[PositiveLight]

Great points! Thank you for sharing! I'm watching the Overkill doc right now and will probably do a play by play of it like I used to so it's easier to refer to things.

 

[Cottonstar]

Totally respect your introspect. But didn't they state in the CBS doc that the ligature was what ended her life? Trying to remember.
I believe the reason they didn't leave her in bed naked is to protect the family. Well what was left of it. It had to look like a foreign faction tortured her before killing her. I believe she was laying there unconscious appearing to be dead to PR. PR did the worst things to her that "a family member" would never do and to cover for the sexual abuse she inserted the paint brush end. (There was a sliver of it found in her vaginal wall.) Redressed her and set the scene. Now whether she was always in the closet or JR put her there that morning is up in the air. I feel he did move her there. This is my opinion of course.
What do you think happened? I'd like to hear your ideas!

PL-
JR CEO Cover-up.


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[PositiveLight]

PL-
JR CEO Cover-up.


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You mean he was good at doing cover ups? :thinking:

 

[Cottonstar]

You mean he was good at doing cover ups? :thinking:

PL-

JR was/is the CEO of the whole cover-up. The missing mobile phone and “blank” phone records from December 1996, is a huge clue. Also, the ransom note was found in pristine perfect condition. There were no fingerprints, no signs of handling, no creasing or folds. If JR was completely dumbfounded by Patsy’s scream for JR, then we would see massive signs of handling of the note. You would have indentions, creases, folds, fingerprints, you would be clutching that note because this is the only thing that would matter to you- getting your daughter back. When French arrived minutes later, JR would have shoved it in French’s face, saying look, look. But, of course he didn’t do that. Instead, they left it sprawled out on the floor, near the south patio door, so French could pick it up, and this gives them the perfect explanation as to why their fingerprints weren’t on the note.

The fact that JR and PR insisting it must be an inside job from the moment French walks in the door is further damning proof.


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[PositiveLight]

PL-

JR was/is the CEO of the whole cover-up. The missing mobile phone and “blank” phone records from December 1996, is a huge clue. Also, the ransom note was found in pristine perfect condition. There were no fingerprints, no signs of handling, no creasing or folds. If JR was completely dumbfounded by Patsy’s scream for JR, then we would see massive signs of handling of the note. You would have indentions, creases, folds, fingerprints, you would be clutching that note because this is the only thing that would matter to you- getting your daughter back. When French arrived minutes later, JR would have shoved it in French’s face, saying look, look. But, of course he didn’t do that. Instead, they left it sprawled out on the floor, near the south patio door, so French could pick it up, and this gives them the perfect explanation as to why their fingerprints weren’t on the note.

The fact that JR and PR insisting it must be an inside job from the moment French walks in the door is further damning proof.


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Totally agree with you. Never understood how Patsy supposedly handled the note and JR put it on the floor and nothing was found. Hmm. Wonder if they've tested for touch DNA on it.

 

[PositiveLight]

I just had a thought that I feel like sharing. I've always been of the belief that JR only knew after the 911 call BUT another possibility has came to my mind.
We all know that the Ramsey's story of John carrying her to bed when they arrived home. Supposedly he sat with her for a bit and Patsy was supposed to come get her ready for bed. This story however doesn't match the evidence of the bowl of pineapple. What IF she did have that bowl of pineapple and something erupted between Jon Benet and BR. BR hits her on the head with something. This is when JR takes her to bed thinking she will be ok like the last time BR whacked her with a golf club. John sat with Jon Benet as she worsened and realizing she wasn't going to survive this, the cover-up began. Just a thought.
JR made it a big deal that he carried her to bed with a flashlight. But maybe not when they first got home. Just a thought. There's probably evidence against this theory though.