CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #10

[MistyAlina]

I am not wishing to bring up an already discussed topic; however wanted to say something in regards to homeschooling. I homeschool my 12 year old. He is an “Independent Studies” student. We do not necessarily follow a specific curriculum; however follow his interests. He does receive instruction in core areas where we would expect to see progress, such as math. Most colleges and even universities, except a handful and if the student pursues civil service, do not require a high school diploma or GED. This is why there is a precedence in the homeschooling community of having students “dual enrolled”. Meaning they are continuing there high school instruction, while also taking courses at a local college, as well. I understand the desire to place homeschooling as the reason no one noticed the plight of these children; however most homeschool families do not live a life of complete solitude. I agree, somewhere society failed these children. It just makes me extremely uncomfortable to place that “onus” on the homeschooling community. Aside from obvious health issues, traditional schooled students and their families could and probably do hide just as much from their educators.

Calling for home checks for every homeschool family and verification beyond what we are already required to provide, seems excessive. Some of it feels very “torch and pitchfork”, for lack of better words.

What happened to these children is atrocious. With each detail read, I am horrified and feel sick for what they experienced. It makes me kiss and hug mine a little closer. I know we all want to pinpoint where the world failed them...unfortunately it’s the hardest answer we can imagine hearing. Their parents failed them.




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[ElizabethAnne]

I am not wishing to bring up an already discussed topic; however wanted to say something in regards to homeschooling. I homeschool my 12 year old. He is an “Independent Studies” student. We do not necessarily follow a specific curriculum; however follow his interests. He does receive instruction in core areas where we would expect to see progress, such as math. Most colleges and even universities, except a handful and if the student pursues civil service, do not require a high school diploma or GED. This is why there is a precedence in the homeschooling community of having students “dual enrolled”. Meaning they are continuing there high school instruction, while also taking courses at a local college, as well. I understand the desire to place homeschooling as the reason no one noticed the plight of these children; however most homeschool families do not live a life of complete solitude. I agree, somewhere society failed these children. It just makes me extremely uncomfortable to place that “onus” on the homeschooling community. Aside from obvious health issues, traditional schooled students and their families could and probably do hide just as much from their educators.

Calling for home checks for every homeschool family and verification beyond what we are already required to provide, seems excessive. Some of it feels very “torch and pitchfork”, for lack of better words.

What happened to these children is atrocious. With each detail read, I am horrified and feel sick for what they experienced. It makes me kiss and hug mine a little closer. I know we all want to pinpoint where the world failed them...unfortunately it’s the hardest answer we can imagine hearing. Their parents failed them.




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The Sacramento Bee had an article today that may have already been posted here today which says that blaming homeschooling for the Turpins being tortured is like blaming trenchcoats for Columbine. Also, the article brings up the case that children are abused within public schools. It brings up the case of teacher Mark Berndt who was a teacher in Los Angeles that over the course of years gagged, molested, tied up, and blindfolded multiple children in the classroom and this went on for decades even though concerns were brought up starting in 1983 -

The full article is here and it is titled Blaming home school for Perris child torture is like blaming trenchcoats for Columbine http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article198994909.html

 

[mtnlites]

The Sacramento Bee had an article today that may have already been posted here today which says that blaming homeschooling for the Turpins being tortured is like blaming trenchcoats for Columbine.

The full article is here and it is titled Blaming home school for Perris child torture is like blaming trenchcoats for Columbine http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article198994909.html

The Turpin children were let down by many people in their lives-especially family members who, I believe, really should've seen something "odd." I don't know how they could've had guests for a week and them not have noticed something. When a situation like this happens, people look for a scapegoat, or at least something to blame. It's difficult to wrap your head around the idea that something like this could've gone on for that long without being detected. In the end, though, the only people at fault are the parents. And I strongly believe that they would've found a way to do this, no matter how creative they had to get.

 

[Amonet]

The Sacramento Bee had an article today that may have already been posted here today which says that blaming homeschooling for the Turpins being tortured is like blaming trenchcoats for Columbine. Also, the article brings up the case that children are abused within public schools. It brings up the case of teacher Mark Berndt who was a teacher in Los Angeles that over the course of years gagged, molested, tied up, and blindfolded multiple children in the classroom and this went on for decades even though concerns were brought up starting in 1983 -

The full article is here and it is titled Blaming home school for Perris child torture is like blaming trenchcoats for Columbine http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article198994909.html

I don't think anyone is blaming homeschooling but saying that in cases like this one it can be used to cover serious abuse.

I don't know how well the T's did on the educational aspect. We've heard of one of the 13 who seems to have been adequately educated, but we don't know how that happened. We've heard that other, I think younger, siblings have approximately a first grade education even though they're at least 11 years old.

But it's not so much about the homeschooling as it is that a tiny number of people pull their kids out of school under the guise of homeschooling and they're hidden from the world and something like the T situation is going on behind closed doors.

I don't see it so much as pitchforks against homeschooling but more about how to avoid the guise of homeschooling being abused, and the children also being abused. There are so many cases on here against children, and what are the numbers on children pre-school vs children of school age, and what systems are not up to scratch in each category? When the school age kids are in public or private school there are mandatory reporters seeing them 5 days a week. That might not stop all abuse but it's there to help catch it and I think it's a good thing. The T's have managed to pretty much avoid mandatory reporters by homeschooling, and apparently also avoiding doctors as much as they could.

I have a problem with arguments that put forward the worst examples to counter arguments? Parents can abuse kids that are going to public school. Teachers can abuse kids. Other kids can abuse kids. But there are some checks and balances in place to try to catch these things. I think the question is whether or not equivalent checks and balances are in place across states for homeschooled kids, not because homeschooling is bad but because the kids deserve to be checked up on and made sure that they're alive, not starving, not covered in cigarette burns, etc.

Some kind of checks might have got the JT with eye issues some help. Home visits could have caught the problems with human and animal feces, and knowing someone's coming around might encourage the T's to not let things get so out of hand or to get them some help before it gets any worse. If they'd had help when they first took the eldest daughter out of school, then this might have been avoidable? The decline from dirty home and neglected kids could have been nipped in the bud before it turned to severe abuse.

If there's a problem with a teacher abusing kids, we can't turn around and say, well look at the parents who abuse their own kids, look at the T's who homeschooled, so lets not bother? It's not about punishing the parents or the teachers, it's about looking out for the kids no matter where they go to school, and even if you can't prevent every case at least trying to catch as many as you can, and when there's a failure doing what can be done to adapt and address what went wrong.

While we can't make these threads about homeschooling, the circumstances a child is in at school and home, are relevant to a case. The circumstances of the T family are relevant. It's not, for me, about looking for blame, it's about analyzing how this happened, how it was missed for so long, and could anything have reasonably been done that might have helped prevent it or catch it earlier? We're talking about something that's been sliding downhill for at least 24 years. We don't know the exact medical condition of any of the siblings, but the weight of the eldest (from being underfed and malnourished) seemed to be a big cause for concern to the doctors. In another year we might not have been looking at 13 live siblings.

DT and LT are the ones I 'blame' for this. They hold responsibility for their actions (and inactions) that have harmed their children. But I also desire that it be prevented and caught as early as possible in as many cases as possible.

 

[SATA]

https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/...ess.com/2018/01/turpin-family.jpg&w=2200&q=70

I have noticed a couple more issues with the image with the beautiful 13. The one on the very left and beautiful # 12 are holding hands, #12 has a bandaid on her thumb. Also, the hand that is on the very left's shoulder looks edematous(puffy/swollen). The hand appears to be from #5. Could be camera angle but it has always stood out to me.

Possibly, but I have a hard time seeing what you see.
First, I see no band aid. What I see is a curled up index finger.
And the puffy hand does not look that puffy to me.

Sorry to say this, and I may be wrong! I just cannot see it.

Edit to add, what I get from the picture, as I do from other photos of the family, is that the eldest sibling and the middle boy are the thinnest and most frail and pale looking

 

[Ambitioned]

They have said more charges could be coming. (And I expect them to.) You cannot hold them in jail without charging them. They likely wanted to charge them with what they needed, so they would not get out and/or have any contact with the children.

I don't know what opinion I hold about children being born and going missing. As fertility declines, the likelihood of miscarriage does increase. It's possible that she had several nonviable pregnancies in that gap, or even experienced a stillbirth. It's always possible she had babies and they went missing, but IMO it seems she only takes decent care of the babies.

As unpleasant as it is to consider, I don't think there was just one victim in regards to the lewd charge. Both predators had thirteen to choose from. I truly believe more lewd charges WILL come.

Was it ever determined where the Javi/Jevi came from? I wondered if it was a child's name that miscarried or a stillbirth? Or was it a nickname for JD?

Someone mentioned refeeding several threads ago. A while back there was a boy that was chained to a porch. When he came in he was severely malnourished. There was discussion of putting in a PICC line and feeding him with TPN and lipids. The team decided on placing a Gtube button and he was fed enterally with a feed pump for a good while. I don't know if that's the case here if course, but I pray all thirteen are healing and thriving.

 

[MistyAlina]

I don't think anyone is blaming homeschooling but saying that in cases like this one it can be used to cover serious abuse.

I don't know how well the T's did on the educational aspect. We've heard of one of the 13 who seems to have been adequately educated, but we don't know how that happened. We've heard that other, I think younger, siblings have approximately a first grade education even though they're at least 11 years old.

But it's not so much about the homeschooling as it is that a tiny number of people pull their kids out of school under the guise of homeschooling and they're hidden from the world and something like the T situation is going on behind closed doors.

I don't see it so much as pitchforks against homeschooling but more about how to avoid the guise of homeschooling being abused, and the children also being abused. There are so many cases on here against children, and what are the numbers on children pre-school vs children of school age, and what systems are not up to scratch in each category? When the school age kids are in public or private school there are mandatory reporters seeing them 5 days a week. That might not stop all abuse but it's there to help catch it and I think it's a good thing. The T's have managed to pretty much avoid mandatory reporters by homeschooling, and apparently also avoiding doctors as much as they could.

I have a problem with arguments that put forward the worst examples to counter arguments? Parents can abuse kids that are going to public school. Teachers can abuse kids. Other kids can abuse kids. But there are some checks and balances in place to try to catch these things. I think the question is whether or not equivalent checks and balances are in place across states for homeschooled kids, not because homeschooling is bad but because the kids deserve to be checked up on and made sure that they're alive, not starving, not covered in cigarette burns, etc.

Some kind of checks might have got the JT with eye issues some help. Home visits could have caught the problems with human and animal feces, and knowing someone's coming around might encourage the T's to not let things get so out of hand or to get them some help before it gets any worse. If they'd had help when they first took the eldest daughter out of school, then this might have been avoidable? The decline from dirty home and neglected kids could have been nipped in the bud before it turned to severe abuse.

If there's a problem with a teacher abusing kids, we can't turn around and say, well look at the parents who abuse their own kids, look at the T's who homeschooled, so lets not bother? It's not about punishing the parents or the teachers, it's about looking out for the kids no matter where they go to school, and even if you can't prevent every case at least trying to catch as many as you can, and when there's a failure doing what can be done to adapt and address what went wrong.

While we can't make these threads about homeschooling, the circumstances a child is in at school and home, are relevant to a case. The circumstances of the T family are relevant. It's not, for me, about looking for blame, it's about analyzing how this happened, how it was missed for so long, and could anything have reasonably been done that might have helped prevent it or catch it earlier? We're talking about something that's been sliding downhill for at least 24 years. We don't know the exact medical condition of any of the siblings, but the weight of the eldest (from being underfed and malnourished) seemed to be a big cause for concern to the doctors. In another year we might not have been looking at 13 live siblings.

DT and LT are the ones I 'blame' for this. They hold responsibility for their actions (and inactions) that have harmed their children. But I also desire that it be prevented and caught as early as possible in as many cases as possible.

I do agree with a lot of what you have said. How ever, To quote you, “We're talking about something that's been sliding downhill for at least 24 years”. In those 24 years, you referenced “checks and balances”. It seems to me that there are so so so many other checks and balances that failed these children, one should not be analyzed more than the rest.


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[JaneEyre]

Hi Everyone,

We need you to stop discussing home schooling as it relates to everything else BUT the Turpin family.

If your post about homeschooling connects to the Turpin's then hit "Submit Reply". If your post is about homeschooling and it does not apply in any way shape or form to the Turpin family/case then do not hit "Submit Reply".

Thank you,
Tricia

Just a reminder

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[SATA]

Possibly, but I have a hard time seeing what you see.
First, I see no band aid. What I see is a curled up index finger.
And the puffy hand does not look that puffy to me.

Sorry to say this, and I may be wrong! I just cannot see it.

Edit to add, what I get from the picture, as I do from other photos of the family, is that the eldest sibling and the middle boy are the thinnest and most frail and pale looking

Looked at the photo further: the hand on the shoulder of "Thing 1" does not appear to be from "Thing 5", but rather from "Thing 3".
5 has her arm down (probably holding 1 around the waist), so it really can´t be her hand.
3 sports long fingernails btw, a grown up thing.
I sense a rebellious spirit in that woman, also from other photos.

 

[SkipperKey3]

Looked at the photo further: the hand on the shoulder of "Thing 1" does not appear to be from "Thing 5", but rather from "Thing 3".
5 has her arm down (probably holding 1 around the waist), so it really can´t be her hand.
3 sports long fingernails btw, a grown up thing.
I sense a rebellious spirit in that woman, also from other photos.

That's what I originally thought as well but now I'm not so sure. Look at #3's shoulder (not the one next to #5) and I think you will see #5's other hand there. I think #5's arm may appear to be down because they are so close together that her elbow is actually bent.
Hard to be certain.

 

[SATA]

That's what I originally thought as well but now I'm not so sure. Look at #3's shoulder (not the one next to #5) and I think you will see #5's other hand there. I think #5's arm may appear to be down because they are so close together that her elbow is actually bent.
Hard to be certain.

That is very possible, the hand on 3´s shoulder also has long fingernails.
So it is 5 who has the long fingernails (maybe also 3, we can´t see her hands, so).
1 also seems to have long fingernails, and she seems anything BUT rebellious, so I may be totally wrong!

 

[Zelda1010]

The young folks in that picture are likely 10-27 years old. They have adult sized limbs without proper opportunities to learn how to use them, imo.

Interestingly as I look this time, there is no doubt in my mind that #10 has her left elbow bent and has sort of wrapped her hand around her brother's which sort of rests hanging by her left shoulder.

I was a little surprised by the long nails on the three oldest gals. Then again short groomed nails, to me, equates more with proper hygiene that was not taught here. I doubt the girls' long nails are vanity. Unless the were chewing their nails, and unchained to be able to do so, how else would the nails look?

I see tortured adult kids. Unfortunately I'm finding out they are not unique in their plight. I hope their story has already saved at least one other set of siblings because someone reported something they otherwise wouldn't have.

 

[SATA]

The young folks in that picture are likely 10-27 years old. They have adult sized limbs without proper opportunities to learn how to use them, imo.

Interestingly as I look this time, there is no doubt in my mind that #12 has her left elbow bent and has sort of wrapped her hand around her brother's which sort of rests hanging by her left shoulder.

I was a little surprised by the long nails on the three oldest gals. Then again short groomed nails, to me, equates more with proper hygiene that was not taught here. I doubt the girls' long nails are vanity. Unless the were chewing their nails, and unchained to be able to do so, how else would the nails look?

I see tortured adult kids. Unfortunately I'm finding out they are not unique in their plight. I hope their story has already saved at least one other set of siblings because someone reported something they otherwise wouldn't have.

I am not sure what you mean about 12 - I can see both her arms in the front. (Edit - you corrected that )
One holding the hand of 1, the other just hanging down her side ???

Another thing. There is a hand I cannot account for.
10 has middle brother´s hand on her, but there is a small hand on top of that - to whom does that hand belong?

I am actually looking at the photo where their faces are not blurred. It is out there, and I see no problem with it.
The siblings will change very much after living a new life, and I doubt anyone will recognize them if they don´t step forward themselves.

P.S. None of them look like any of their parents. The oldest girl looks like Louse´s mother, some of them look like each other, the oldest boy has stringy hair like Louise. That´s all I see.
They are all beautiful.

 

[SkipperKey3]

I am not sure what you mean about 12 - I can see both her arms in the front.
One holding the hand of 1, the other just hanging down her side ???

Another thing. There is a hand I cannot account for.
10 has middle brother´s hand on her, but there is a small hand on top of that - to whom does that hand belong?

I am actually looking at the photo where their faces are not blurred. It is out there, and I see no problem with it.
The siblings will change very much after living a new life, and I doubt anyone will recognize them if they don´t step forward themselves.

I believe that was supposed to be #10, and yes, I see the OP edited the post.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they all get haircuts, whatever style they choose, as well. And the older girls will use a little make-up, perhaps. I'm sure if they haven't already (and I am willing to bet they have), they will get individualized touches to their appearance. With the exception of the baby, there is a good chance they won't be immediately recognizable. And this is good - they don't need that hovering over them wherever they go.
Let their personalities begin to grow and shine!

EDIT - not meaning to indicate the baby WOULD be immediately recognizable. I just don't know how much hair she has at the moment.

 

[human]

That is very possible, the hand on 3´s shoulder also has long fingernails.
So it is 5 who has the long fingernails (maybe also 3, we can´t see her hands, so).
1 also seems to have long fingernails, and she seems anything BUT rebellious, so I may be totally wrong!

I am surprised about long fingernails because nutrition affects fingernails. I doubt that they had fingernail clippers for grooming. I wonder how the nails were cut.

 

[human]

People have said that there were other things that failed the children. What could those have been?

1. The teachers and staff at the school that the oldest girl attended could have taken notice of her lack of hygiene and lack of friends

2. The condition of the homes in Texas could have been reported

3. What did any doctors think? The one boy has glasses so someone saw him unless it was at a mall eye place.

4. The rules of home or private schools in CA had no interaction?

5. Neighbors who saw the childen marching for hours and out late at night but never in the daytime.

6. The person and the LE who had interaction with the runaway child in Texas.

7. People who saw the thiness of the children may have thought they had cancer. Starvation would not come to mind in a nice suburban area.

 

[SATA]

I am surprised about long fingernails because nutrition affects fingernails. I doubt that they had fingernail clippers for grooming. I wonder how the nails were cut.

Their hair also looks healthy.

 

[ilovepierre]

Their hair also looks healthy.

I'm sure they were able to wash their hair every now and again.
You don't have to shower to wash your hair.

IMO

 

[Stunned]

People have said that there were other things that failed the children. What could those have been?

1. The teachers and staff at the school that the oldest girl attended could have taken notice of her lack of hygiene and lack of friends

2. The condition of the homes in Texas could have been reported

3. What did any doctors think? The one boy has glasses so someone saw him unless it was at a mall eye place.

4. The rules of home or private schools in CA had no interaction?

5. Neighbors who saw the childen marching for hours and out late at night but never in the daytime.

6. The person and the LE who had interaction with the runaway child in Texas.

7. People who saw the thiness of the children may have thought they had cancer. Starvation would not come to mind in a nice suburban area.

I have had a child in my classroom who would come in with dried feces up his back, down his legs and all over his bottom. Reeked of it. Other children drawing away from this poor child. Not once,everyday. Roaches crawled out of his backpack. DSS was called constantly. They got tired of hearing about it. Wanted to know what I, as his teacher, was willing to do to help clean him up for class.

 

[SATA]

I'm sure they were able to wash their hair every now and again.
You don't have to shower to wash your hair.

IMO

That is not quite what I mean - it is more the texture and thickness of their hair - it looked healthy, at least until a couple of years ago.