GUILTY CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #12

[margarita25]

(Google results:
What is psychosocial dwarfism?
Psychosocial short stature (PSS) or psychosocial dwarfism, sometimes called psychogenic or stress dwarfism, or Kaspar Hauser syndrome, is a growth disorder that is observed between the ages of 2 and 15, caused by extreme emotional deprivation or stress.
Psychosocial short stature - Wikipedia
Wikipedia › wiki › Psychosocial_short_st...
What causes psychosocial dwarfism?
Psychosocial dwarfism: identification, intervention and planning. Psychosocial Dwarfism, a syndrome caused by deprivation, emotional stress and/or neglect, occurs in both infants and children.
Psychosocial dwarfism: identification, intervention and ...)

 

[GutInstinct]

I was raised by a bi polar nurse and an alcoholic father who was a professor at the local university. My mother would either clean obsessively or allow the house to become filthy to the point that had child services ever come to our house we would have been removed (cats allowed to relieve themselves throughout house and not cleaned up for months at a time among other things). We were always told it was our fault our home was the way it was and if we were better children our home wouldn’t be the way it was. Eventually she would clean it up. Well, as good as you could clean it after months of filth building up. However, she wouldn’t clean our rooms. Instead she’d leave us, as children, responsible to clean our rooms because, in her opinion and words we were so bad and worthless and caused the house to be like it was. This resulted in the rooms only being cleaned as well as young children could which wasn’t well at all! So we grew up in a filthy environment that was her way of punishing us (mostly just for existing more than anything else). So what you wrote and I quoted above rings true to me. And while I’m pretty sure there is some mental illness going on with LT, she knew it was wrong to keep her kids in filth as evidenced by the vacation clothes and baths.

My own experience gives me hope that these children can learn a normal, healthy way to live. I have.

I, too, know what growing up in a home with mentally ill parents is like. These people are not insane. No way will they qualify for not knowing what they were doing. My son also suffers from mental illness so I am highly knowledgeable about the realm and spectrum of mental illnesses and personality disorders.

IMO, this isn't just mental illness. They are evil, sadistic, off the charts cruel, selfish animals who got off on torturing their children, depriving them of love, food, clean clothes, a safe home, person hygiene or an education. They made sure their slaves/prisoners had no chance for a real life. I have no words to describe them or what they did to their children. And the parent-monster's own childhood traumas do not give them a free pass for their behavior. Not for one second.

 

[Jennifer17]

My daughter had a friend at school (still friends) whose parents did not mistreat her physically, but she was shown no love and actively disliked. They were middle class with a good income, but just about all the clothing she possessed was her school uniform. She was fed adequately, but not allowed to sit with them while they ate. She had her meals before they had theirs, even as a teenager and then was sent to her room. Her home was the absolute opposite to the Turpins. Both her parents were absolute clean freaks. Her father used to trim the edges of his lawn with scissors.

When she finished school and got her first job, before she had even started work, they told her that she had one week to get out of their home. She lived with me for three years until she and my daughter, moved out and shared a flat.
She is now in her early forties and has a lovely and much loved family of her own.

 

[ilovematt]

My daughter had a friend at school (still friends) whose parents did not mistreat her physically, but she was shown no love and actively disliked. They were middle class with a good income, but just about all the clothing she possessed was her school uniform. She was fed adequately, but not allowed to sit with them while they ate. She had her meals before they had theirs, even as a teenager and then was sent to her room. Her home was the absolute opposite to the Turpins. Both her parents were absolute clean freaks. Her father used to trim the edges of his lawn with scissors.

When she finished school and got her first job, before she had even started work, they told her that she had one week to get out of their home. She lived with me for three years until she and my daughter, moved out and shared a flat.
She is now in her early forties and has a lovely and much loved family of her own.

This is so similar to my upbringing. We didn’t talk about anything, no I love you’s or intimacy of any kind. I had many siblings and we were abused just as far as the law would allow. There was ALOT of verbal and super effed up mental abuse. I can honestly say that the worst part was not feeling wanted or loved or appreciated. It takes a long time to reprogram 18 years of conditioning. I’m happily married, I’m not a mother though by choice to end the cycle of mental illness. I’m so happy and loved and content, but it’s a steep hill to climb. Mine was nowhere near these sweet souls. They’re inspiring.

 

[Jennifer17]

This is so similar to my upbringing. We didn’t talk about anything, no I love you’s or intimacy of any kind. I had many siblings and we were abused just as far as the law would allow. There was ALOT of verbal and super effed up mental abuse. I can honestly say that the worst part was not feeling wanted or loved or appreciated. It takes a long time to reprogram 18 years of conditioning. I’m happily married, I’m not a mother though by choice to end the cycle of mental illness. I’m so happy and loved and content, but it’s a steep hill to climb. Mine was nowhere near these sweet souls. They’re inspiring.

I could write a book about our friend and what she endured, but it is not my story to tell.
Fortunately, they realised that they did not want to share their home with a child, after they had the first one.

 

[Doghairrules]

My daughter had a friend at school (still friends) whose parents did not mistreat her physically, but she was shown no love and actively disliked. They were middle class with a good income, but just about all the clothing she possessed was her school uniform. She was fed adequately, but not allowed to sit with them while they ate. She had her meals before they had theirs, even as a teenager and then was sent to her room. Her home was the absolute opposite to the Turpins. Both her parents were absolute clean freaks. Her father used to trim the edges of his lawn with scissors.

When she finished school and got her first job, before she had even started work, they told her that she had one week to get out of their home. She lived with me for three years until she and my daughter, moved out and shared a flat.
She is now in her early forties and has a lovely and much loved family of her own.

Heartbreaking! Thank goodness she had you and your daughter.

Just curious - does she have any contact at all with her parents now?

 

[1&2&3]

I have known a lot of men who are away from their families for very long periods of time. Usually because of their job. The military for one example. They can be away from their families for months or even years. So I don't think that it is particularly unusual for many men to be away from their families for more then one week.

You are speaking of men being away from their families. The Mothers were at home minding the home and caring for the children. In this case, both parents were gone.. the older children took care of the younger ones.
The parents lived alone' completely away from the children.

 

[KaaBoom]

You are speaking of men being away from their families. The Mothers were at home minding the home and caring for the children. In this case, both parents were gone.. the older children took care of the younger ones.
The parents lived alone' completely away from the children.

There are many cases in the military were both parents are deployed too. But I agree that is more unusual.
A Family Grows When Both Parents Deploy

 

[bears10]

There are many cases in the military were both parents are deployed too. But I agree that is more unusual.
A Family Grows When Both Parents Deploy

Do they leave their kids to fend for themselves tho? Admittedly I’d didn’t read the article.

 

[Jennifer17]

Heartbreaking! Thank goodness she had you and your daughter.

Just curious - does she have any contact at all with her parents now?

Yes, but it is limited to birthday and Christmas cards . She and her husband moved two states away, which, I think was a good thing.

 

[KaaBoom]

Do they leave their kids to fend for themselves tho? Admittedly I’d didn’t read the article.

I believe they could be left with adult children, or other relatives, as is the case in that article.

 

[Doghairrules]

Yes, but it is limited to birthday and Christmas cards . She and her husband moved two states away, which, I think was a good thing.

That’s more than they deserve. I don’t understand some “parents.”

 

[gitana1]

I see, thanks. I was confused as to why the prosecution brought up those things, but now I recall the defense arguing against a 'conditioning' theory. So that means the prosecution wanted those things to be allowed in evidence to show the conditioning of the older kids to explain why they didn't run away even though some of them were allowed greater freedom and they too were watching their younger siblings suffer at the hands of DT and LT.

I tend to agree with the prosecution on that, I don't think they should give the defense the space to say the older kids stayed out of free will when it's so much more psychologically complex than that.

I didn't think about the conditioning argument. It's a great one for bringing that evidence in! Because otherwise they can argue the adults weren't dependent.

 

[RickshawFan]

There are many cases in the military were both parents are deployed too. But I agree that is more unusual.
A Family Grows When Both Parents Deploy

The deployed do not abandon their children to take care of themselves.

This case is about a couple who ABANDONED their children.

This case is about a couple who ordered that their children be kept in cages while they were abandoned.

We are totally "off base" in this thread comparing this couple to deployed couples.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

They had a PO Box in Texas and after they moved to California, neither of the Turpins bothered to get a California drivers license. I think that from what I recall that at one point they lived on at least 2 properties in Texas, but if you look on Ancestry, four are listed. The double wide trailer was on one of the properties, but I can't find an address to find out how far the parents were away when they abandoned their older children and left with the youngest two (the 11th and 12th sibling) to live in a separate apartment.

From what I understand, the 11 year old, the 12th sibling, was in the worst shape when she was rescued so that means she went with the parents to the separate apartment (if I am calculating the ages correctly). The two youngest must have suffered horrific abuse. Does anyone what 4 years the Turpins abandoned their children - I am guessing it was 2005-2009 or 2006-2010 just before the California move but I am not sure.

I still can't fathom the evil that would cause 2 parents to hold their children hostage as prisoners in their own home for decades.

 

[Amonet]

They had a PO Box in Texas and after they moved to California, neither of the Turpins bothered to get a California drivers license. I think that from what I recall that at one point they lived on at least 2 properties in Texas, but if you look on Ancestry, four are listed. The double wide trailer was on one of the properties, but I can't find an address to find out how far the parents were away when they abandoned their older children and left with the youngest two (the 11th and 12th sibling) to live in a separate apartment.

From what I understand, the 11 year old, the 12th sibling, was in the worst shape when she was rescued so that means she went with the parents to the separate apartment (if I am calculating the ages correctly). The two youngest must have suffered horrific abuse. Does anyone what 4 years the Turpins abandoned their children - I am guessing it was 2005-2009 or 2006-2010 just before the California move but I am not sure.

I still can't fathom the evil that would cause 2 parents to hold their children hostage as prisoners in their own home for decades.

If 2010 is the latest year possible, that would make the eldest daughter 17-18 through to 21

And if the two youngest (at the time) were with DT and LT, the next youngest is 14 now? Eight years ago that child would have been 6. And this had been going on for about 3 to 4 years, starting when that child was about 2-3 years old.

I'm curious if this is the period where one of the older girls was described as attempting to run away, and when the person who found her drove her back she was asking about things like getting a job and a driver's license? Or if that incident might have happened just before or after? It seems hard to believe that the girl in this incident could have been taken back to the trailer if DT and LT weren't living with the children at the time, but if one of the older girls thought, "if I had a job and a car it would make it so much easier to care for all the younger kids" that would make a lot of sense? Was she running away or was she just wanting these things to make things easier to care for the younger ones?

 

[msphilosopher]

From Article: Turpin family: Chilling 911 call released in court reveals extent of abuse - CNN

A doctor who treated the family said the 11-year-old girl was in the worst condition when the examined her, Patrick Morris, Supervising Investigator for Riverside County District Attorney, testified.
She had a body weight percentile of .01 and her mid arm circumference was equal to that of a 4.5-month-old baby, Morris testified. The doctor said she had psychosocial dwarfism, stunted growth due to living in an environment that is abusive or neglected.
The 15-year-old boy had difficulty walking, vitamin D deficiency, and visible scoliosis. He told the doctor that he wanted to kill animals and could predict the future, Morris testified.

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ETA: I'm actually shocked that none of these children died. The neglect and abuse is unimaginable.

 

[claudianunes]

If 2010 is the latest year possible, that would make the eldest daughter 17-18 through to 21

And if the two youngest (at the time) were with DT and LT, the next youngest is 14 now? Eight years ago that child would have been 6. And this had been going on for about 3 to 4 years, starting when that child was about 2-3 years old.

I'm curious if this is the period where one of the older girls was described as attempting to run away, and when the person who found her drove her back she was asking about things like getting a job and a driver's license? Or if that incident might have happened just before or after? It seems hard to believe that the girl in this incident could have been taken back to the trailer if DT and LT weren't living with the children at the time, but if one of the older girls thought, "if I had a job and a car it would make it so much easier to care for all the younger kids" that would make a lot of sense? Was she running away or was she just wanting these things to make things easier to care for the younger ones?

I think that incident happened before. I'm not sure which one of the girls tried to escape, but I'm assuming it was the oldest one. I might be wrong but one of the girls tried to run away and asked all of those questions when they lived in that farm in Texas.

 

[Confusion]

From Article: Turpin family: Chilling 911 call released in court reveals extent of abuse - CNN

A doctor who treated the family said the 11-year-old girl was in the worst condition when the examined her, Patrick Morris, Supervising Investigator for Riverside County District Attorney, testified.
She had a body weight percentile of .01 and her mid arm circumference was equal to that of a 4.5-month-old baby, Morris testified. The doctor said she had psychosocial dwarfism, stunted growth due to living in an environment that is abusive or neglected.
The 15-year-old boy had difficulty walking, vitamin D deficiency, and visible scoliosis. He told the doctor that he wanted to kill animals and could predict the future, Morris testified.

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ETA: I'm actually shocked that none of these children died. The neglect and abuse is unimaginable.

That's really surprising, I'm surprised I didn't notice it when I read the article. I had assumed (shame on me!) that the son with all the problems was the middle one, but the 15 year old is the youngest son. (I believe the boys are 15, 22 and 25)

 

[ElizabethAnne]

The Turpins declared bankruptcy in 1992 in Texas when they only had two children, the oldest girl and the oldest boy (who was just born in 1992). Something sounds very strange about the bankruptcy at that stage. Where on earth did they spend all of their money? Did they gamble it away? Does anyone have the bankruptcy filings from the Texas court? I have not seen it. Also I am not sure where they lived prior to 1992 other than the fact that the oldest daughter was born in Los Angeles County in CA. If anyone has that info, can anyone post it along with a link to the 1992 bankruptcy papers?

From 1992 to 1999, I think that they lived in that two story house in Texas that we have all seen pictures of. Then from 2000 to 2010, it sounds like that was the period in the house out in the middle of nowhere, part of it with the trailer, and for 4 of those years the parents abandoned the children. Then in 2011 once they had been in CA for a few months, they again declared bankruptcy a second time.

I will bet that part of the reason for that is that they were spending most of the income on the *rent* for the apartment Louise and David were living in for 4 years, and defaulted on the mortgage of the one story house on the property with the trailer in Texas. If they did not declare any of this rent of this extra apartment on their bankruptcy proceedings that were filed in CA, I feel that this could also lead to Federal charges for falsifying the bankruptcy data they reported in the CA bankruptcy proceedings.

I read somewhere from the court hearing recently that when the daughter escaped, she realized she had nowhere to go, and ended up calling Louise to pick her up and bring her back.

The 22 year old was the one who said he was chained most of the time for the last 6 1/2 years and the boy who the police found shackled in chains when they arrived. It sounds like the boys were the ones beaten also with the oar and the tent pole with a metal tip described in the preliminary hearing. I am gathering that the one that beat the three boys was mostly David Turpin.

Also I think there is a daughter in age between the 11 and 14 year old (the two that were also in chains). I am guessing that maybe she (the daughter between the 11 year old and 14 year old) was the one that escaped the Perris house with the 17 year old, but then turned back. Also when there was a discussion about them moving to Oklahoma right before the escape, now that I know from the preliminary hearing that the parents abandoned the children in Texas, I wonder whether the parents were the ones that were planning to go to Oklahoma with the 2 year old, and leave the rest of the children to fend for themselves in Perris?