CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #2

[Margo/Mom]

I'm still catching up so forgive me if this has been mentioned. Responding to Jiminy (quote below)



I'm wondering if part of their sick fantasy is for the kids to stay kids forever, and the malnourishment part of the plan for the adult children to remain children somehow in appearance.

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These parents don't strike me as people who exactly plan things.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I'm still catching up so forgive me if this has been mentioned. Responding to Jiminy (quote below)



I'm wondering if part of their sick fantasy is for the kids to stay kids forever, and the malnourishment part of the plan for the adult children to remain children somehow in appearance.

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Bbm: Yes, these children have a doll-like appearance in their matching outfits and uniform haircuts.

Starvation is torture. It weakens physically and psychologically. These children are frozen in time. Which also makes the young woman who found her courage, who made a run for it a real hero.

Like all imprisonment, and torture, it is so incomprehensible, so off the radar of possibility, so rare, that even for the extended family, it is not surprising that is just as shocking if they were always kept out, kept in the dark. Imo. And look at the lengths that were orchestrated to deceive with the Disney World happy family pastiche.

I vaguely remembered this story from back in the day. As I look at the pictures of "The Family", all the kids dressed the same, like dolls, starved, subjected to torture, extreme religion, I wonder about the psychological similarities.

Children injected with LSD, starved and locked away for DECADES: Inside Australia's notorious cult 'The Family' whose charismatic woman leader convinced followers she was Jesus

Asked why she imprisoned 28 children over two decades, she responded: 'I love children.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lt-led-Anne-Hamilton-Byrne.html#ixzz54SNZzhpy

 

[Gardenista]

I would not be surprised if the mom had no medical intervention during her pregnancies, and birthed at home unassisted. I don't expect many medical records on her or the children.

JMO

Not sure about births but they communicated with her doc on FB

 

[Peony459]

I wonder if they'll start digging up the backyard soon.

 

[enelram]

I recall reading an article years ago about some women who are perpetually pregnant and have all these kids. The
article said something like, when the woman is pregnant and then has a newborn, she gets lots of extra attention simply
by virtue of being pregnant and having a cutesy infant. Maybe the husband and additional children do extra things for her and even the public gives special homage to pregnant women or one carrying a tiny baby.

When the baby start growing and becomes a toddler, and running around, some of the mother's attraction is gone.
I wonder if that scenario could be in play here.

There's some kind of sick psychology going on with the mother and father for them to have all these needy children who were not properly cared for and then to go on and torture them as they did. JMO.

 

[DakotaMayi]

DNA testing isn't that fast.

No, it sure isn't sgrump. But as LE said they are sure they are all children of these two monsters, I think we are safe to say that they have looked into this some. In other ways.

ETA: Like in the ways that Inthedetails listed up thread... Sorry ITD, I didn't see your post before I wrote this

 

[enelram]

Not sure about births but they communicated with her doc on FB

Maybe that is the ob/gyn from only the latest baby- 2015.

 

[blue22]

Not sure about births but they communicated with her doc on FB

Thanks. I didn't see that. I'm trying to catch up from yesterday! So was it virtual, and not in person?

Either way, I wonder when the last time they were physically examined by a physician. I can't imagine a doctor not being concerned throughout their lives, given their sizes and ages.

 

[enelram]

I wonder if they'll start digging up the backyard soon.

And also to the other homes they've lived in for 30 yrs. Lots of digging.

 

[Gardenista]

Thanks. I didn't see that. I'm trying to catch up from yesterday! So was it virtual, and not in person?

Either way, I wonder when the last time they were physically examined by a physician. I can't imagine a doctor not being concerned throughout their lives, given their sizes and ages.

I can't remember exactly what was said or when the comment was made. Maybe someone else here remembers?

 

[DakotaMayi]

A father this heinous in parenting behaviors and skills would think nothing of raping his daughters. Oh yeah, that youngest and possibly others are the product of incest.

That is your opinion and not fact, as you appear to be stating it here. LE said yesterday, in the presser, they believe (for reasons/from research they did not specify) that all of these children are DT & LT's.

 

[katydid23]

Not sure about births but they communicated with her doc on FB

And I believe that doc was an Ob-Gyn.

 

[Confusion]

I really hate when people do this, but I'm really short of time today and won't be able to read other posts before writing mine. My apologies if this has already been mentioned. Something that has been on my mind for a while is that some of the "victims" (hard not calling them kids) seem to look a bit like some I've seen with fetal alcohol syndrome. I wonder if LT has a history of drinking; it doesn't always take a lot to cause problems. That could account for the short stature, possibly some of the low weight, in-coordination and other things. If so, common signs of it are also irritability, aggression and hyperactivity. If so, they may have just started confining them to keep them from causing more problems. Either way, it wouldn't excuse the things that were done, but it means there is a very small possibility that the parents were just ignorant and frustrated rather than the monsters they seem to be.

I know this is all pretty unlikely, but I always try to look at issues from all sides. MOO

 

[enelram]

I really hate when people do this, but I'm really short of time today and won't be able to read other posts before writing mine. My apologies if this has already been mentioned. Something that has been on my mind for a while is that some of the "victims" (hard not calling them kids) seem to look a bit like some I've seen with fetal alcohol syndrome. I wonder if LT has a history of drinking; it doesn't always take a lot to cause problems. That could account for the short stature, possibly some of the low weight, in-coordination and other things. If so, common signs of it are also irritability, aggression and hyperactivity. If so, they may have just started confining them to keep them from causing more problems. Either way, it wouldn't excuse the things that were done, but it means there is a very small possibility that the parents were just ignorant and frustrated rather than the monsters they seem to be.

I know this is all pretty unlikely, but I always try to look at issues from all sides. MOO

Interesting that you mention this as I also suspected this w/ a couple of the offspring. Specifically the middle boy and one of the younger girls. they have the facial features of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome children.

 

[Margo/Mom]

Interesting on the “precocious puberty” symptom. I hypothezised in another thread that the kids might have been starved to prevent them from reaching puberty.

Dad liked prepubescents? The boys were starved to keep them from telling? When they threatened to tell what was happening to their sisters?

I don't see evidence of a lot of causal or planning thought on the part of these two parents. As a example their multiple bankruptcies coupled with extravagant vacations and perhaps other spending.

My own suspicion is that the malnourishment is likely to link to some other, more immediate conditions. One is the overall budget to keep 15 people fed and housed. Keeping it too tight would result in poor nutrition. The other has to do with the use of food as a control. Clearly we have some adults who have been maintained in a dependent relationship long past an age at which people--even those with disabilities--are typically emancipated. Consider this in tandem with the physical control (chains). Dependents who don't do whatever they are supposed to do (by parent decree) have food withheld. Probably most effective when the subjects are always in a state of hunger.

Another possibility is that one or both parents, despite the regimented appearance OUTSIDE, live chaotic lives (perhaps evidenced by the messes referred to inside), at least some portion of the time INSIDE. As an example, while I don't see anything leading me to suspect alcohol or drug involvement, households afflicted by addiction frequently seesaw between deprivation (while adults are pre-occupied) and some version of bounty (making it up to the family). Might also be the case for adults with extremes of depression or particularly bipolar disorder. When adults are deep into a disease, children don't get fed. And given the overall controls (chains, locks, training children not to talk to outsiders), children are even prevented from developing "little adult" coping skills seen in some such households.

Again, for me the big thing is that I don't see much evidence of future planning in these folks.

 

[Inthedetails]

Not sure about births but they communicated with her doc on FB

Right. It's my assumption until proven otherwise that the mother had medical attention during pregnancy and had hospital births. If other news comes out, of course I will accept it. But for now, LE has said the children belong to the parents and I believe them. The FB communications with the GYN is one indication.

(And I suspect the mom likely enjoyed the attention of pregnancy/delivery, though that is just my hunch, not fact.)

jmo

 

[Iona]

I lived this life, not ready to tell my story yet... This hurts so much, I am now 48,and just when I thought the nightmares had stopped, this happens[emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]
I cannot reply or engage right now, but I will tell you this... Google Bill Gothard, Institute for Youth Conflict. Also google Alert, A..T.I.A - The advanced training institute of America headquarters in Wheaton, Illinois or Oakbrook Illinois. Immediately , when I saw her age, and heard the sister’ s comment about how their dad used to be a pastor, I got chills.... It is very possible that her parents were in the above referenced “Ministry”, of which and several “survivors”, call a cult... I have to take an emotional timeout now, I am too invested... Just know, that I am okay, that my children are okay, and that everyday it is my goal to be the parent I needed... The doubly ironic part is, I too ran away at 17, but I had to save myself....🤧[emoji25][emoji25]🤧


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[enelram]

In the press conference, LE stated neither parent had an answer as to why the children were chained to furniture.
Maybe it just made the parent's life easier. I would think if you're starving and abusing your child, this alone could make
the child hard to handle. It surely would keep them from stealing food from the kitchen.

 

[gitana1]

I am truly sorry AnaPisces as I did not mean to imply otherwise about anyone. And thank you for the real life example as it does show its possible and CPS may get lucky to find a capable couple willing to take on all 13 children.

Its really good that they have stated their intentions is to keep them together as they know its for the best. Lets hope they are able to stay with that approach.

This case has hit me really hard for some reason. I just feel so terribly sad for what all those children went through and I am so afraid of the future for them.

I will surely keep them in my prayers and I know others are also so there is hope they can recover fully someday.

One thing I know for sure is kids are very resilient which is a good thing

Oh I wish that were so. The reason there are so many people with psychological problems - anxiety, depression, bi-polar disorder, personality disorders, sexual issues, addiction, PTSD, etc. - is in large part because of what they suffered in childhood.

Kids bodies are resilient. Their minds are not. Their minds are quite fragile in a sense, they are very impressionable and any kind of fear or trauma or significant or on-going stress can negatively effect them permanently. Trauma in childhood of any source can cripple children and cause them to struggle to be sane and functional as adults, for life: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15985923

(That is, BTW, why I would never use hitting of ANY form, fear or humiliation to discipline a child. It has an impact).

However, and it is a big "but", children's minds are "plastic", much more so than adults, and so the earlier they receive treatment of trauma they endured, the better chance they have at recovery or learning adaptive coping skills.

As to the older "kids", I have no idea how these young adults will be able to function and cope normally. Sadly, I believe they will likely need disability payments and assistance for life.

 

[Rocco]

I wonder if they'll start digging up the backyard soon.

Seven of the children are adults. They would know if there had been any other births.