CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #6

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arkansasmimi

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And there are pictures of the Turpin family attending Disneyland with an uncle, aunt and cousins; we know the grandparents (LT's parents) went so far as to fly to California to try to see the kids and LT wouldn't tell them where they were; LT's sister would skype with the kids until a couple of years ago.

ISTM that the extended family TRIED to keep in touch and see the kids, and they were not permitted by DT and LT.

Did the extended family contact CPS? It doesn't look like they did, but they had no reason to. If you called CPS today and said, "my adult daughter has cut ties with me and won't let me see my grandchildren, and I want you to investigate." They would say, "do you have any evidence the children are being abuse or neglected?" The extended family did not have proof of that, to the contrary the public profile LT put up was the "perfect family." So CPS would tell you, "I'm sorry, but adults can decide who they want to associate with, and they can decide who their children can see and associate with. There's nothing we can do."

So don't assume that the extended family didn't care or made no effort. It doesn't appear to me that there was anything they could do.

Disneyland photo with grandparents and extended family is same day, dressed same.

But agree. One sister Even said no contact in 19 yrs, but her account posted to Turpin acct. If they had reason to think something up, they could have made up something for a welfare check. At anytime. No LEO had any record of anyone contacting. Even neighbor across street who even took them their mail, yet she also saw nothing. Something was going on, that's for sure. But taking what we been told doesn't make sense. Slept all day yet up all night? Yet went to CC, neighbor across street shared hello's, kids to mail box. It's sad situation, but human nature is to take our own life experiences to form opinions. Media is to grab attention. Just like the multiple articles with Texas neighbors contradict. Or speaking of stuff that happened when 29 was in early elem. Yet no one they have had contact, real contact with have come forward saying anything. Only neighbors who tell about a memory at age 10, but she's 25 now? Or same didn't even know had moved just tell about mess allegedly left behind.

It's early in investigation so I think kids where need to be until sorted out. I trust the DA and LEO, try to keep open mind what actually said instead of my opinion meant by said. Hard but I don't trust media
 

Datchery

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There is zero doubt in my mind that these survivors were horrifically abused for years. None at all. But I do want to address the points made by those who are questioning some of the details.

AFAIK, the comments about the children's mental states came from LE, not from experts in education and childhood psychology/trauma. And they came very quickly after the kids were rescued, and at a point in which immediate medical needs were likely taking priority over cognitive assessment. So it is quite possible to me that LE's impressions of the children's educational and knowledge level were not 100% accurate. If the 17 year old has the educational level of a third grader, for instance, it wouldn't be shocking for someone who doesn't typically work with children to confuse that with first-grade level knowledge.

Similarly, I believe completely that one or more of the children said something to give LE the impression that he or she didn't know what a police officer or medication was. That doesn't necessarily mean that impression was accurate. Maybe the kid didn't recognize the word "cop" or "detective," but actually did have a general sense of what the police did. Maybe a kid who looked confused was asked directly "Do you know what pills are?" and said "no" because she was so scared of giving the wrong answer. In a case like this, it has to be really, really hard to figure out what the kids know and don't know given the layers of trauma they must be dealing with. An untrained officer isn't going to be able to make that kind of assessment.As others have said, it also might well be that some children, based on age or some other characteristic, wound up more thoroughly isolated than the others. But I'm sure all of them are developmentally well behind where they should be.

Given that this is a case in which we KNOW that these kids were kept filthy, starved, and, sometimes, chained I think it makes a lot more sense to assume some version of the above than to think that the DA is trying to exaggerate the abuse in order to win a case. There's no need to exaggerate when the facts are this bad.
 

Elley Mae

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Just heard on my TV that today's court proceeding will happen in less than 1 hr. Also, older children are in a group home and younger children in foster care.

Great!

Maybe now some normalcy for them.
 

Niner

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Late here - almost 11pm - so hoping someone will post a video of the hearing coming up in 1/2 an hour!

Took all day to read the last thread and this one, but I did skip over every other page....
 

nyvictoria

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I'm wondering if the kids really did have any fun at those vow renewals. They must have been so lethargic and made to perform. They may have been terrified of making a mistake. I'm not so sure it was a fun time for them at all.
I agree. I doubt they enjoyed it. It was just another form of torture. They were allowed to clean themselves, out in nice clean clothes, treated to a day or two of fresh air and possibly a good meal. All the while knowing they had to return home to to a dark, smelly house and chains. Torture!!


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Margo/Mom

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Can somebody explain what assisted living consists of? When i first read it i immediately thought it was the equivalent to our supported living over here in the UK. I've managed a few supported living schemes and thought it would be a marvellous idea for the adults and in taking their first steps to normality.

Over here Supported living schemes consist of a house or unit where individuals can be supported to learn the necessary skills for daily living - help with meal planning, cooking skills, managing personal hygiene, cleaning, travel training, budgetting etc. Individuals have their own rooms for private space and communal areas. Staff are on hand the majority of the time if not 24/7 and service users have designated 1:1 time for focussed suppirt on areas identified in their individual care plans. In addition other professionals such as counsellors, medical professionals etc can readily come in amd work with the individuals as requested.

Normally supported living is the second step in becoming independent. The first being residential care (where people are unable to undertake any independent living themselves or have very veru few skills) and the last step being outreach where individuals move in to their own accommodation and recieve a set amount of hours support each week to work on the few areas they may still have trouble with.

If assisted living in the US is in any way similar i think its a great idea. It shows hope that the older children have some skills or the capacity to learn the skills required needed for living independntly at some point in the future and enables them to learn these skills in a safe environement with dedicated support tailored to their individual needs

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I don't know that assisted living in the US has any single definition. Some such facilities are attached to "retirement communities" and actually are simple apartments in a building that also has a common dining area and some organized activities (shopping, etc) and easy access (via an intercom, perhaps) to crisis care. Others may be more like "group homes" for adults with a range of disabilities. May or may not have shared activities, like cooking. Some of these are apartment like, but others are converted single family homes.

Depending on a lot of things (like the size of the facility or the needs of residents), staff can be 24/7 on site, or simply provide intermittent "case management" (things like monitoring medications, making health care appointments, setting up transportation, etc) on a daily or weekly basis. Some are intended to be transitional (like what you describe)--helping an adult with some kind of disability, or a foster child who has "aged out" of foster care, or even someone who has been homeless for some time, gain skills and supports (like a job, or connection to various services) so that they can move on to more independent living.

In this case, hard to tell. At any rate I think we are looking at some sheltered independence.
 

enelram

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There is zero doubt in my mind that these survivors were horrifically abused for years. None at all. But I do want to address the points made by those who are questioning some of the details.

AFAIK, the comments about the children's mental states came from LE, not from experts in education and childhood psychology/trauma. And they came very quickly after the kids were rescued, and at a point in which immediate medical needs were likely taking priority over cognitive assessment. So it is quite possible to me that LE's impressions of the children's educational and knowledge level were not 100% accurate. If the 17 year old has the educational level of a third grader, for instance, it wouldn't be shocking for someone who doesn't typically work with children to confuse that with first-grade level knowledge.

Similarly, I believe completely that one or more of the children said something to give LE the impression that he or she didn't know what a police officer or medication was. That doesn't necessarily mean that impression was accurate. Maybe the kid didn't recognize the word "cop" or "detective," but actually did have a general sense of what the police did. Maybe a kid who looked confused was asked directly "Do you know what pills are?" and said "no" because she was so scared of giving the wrong answer. In a case like this, it has to be really, really hard to figure out what the kids know and don't know given the layers of trauma they must be dealing with. An untrained officer isn't going to be able to make that kind of assessment.As others have said, it also might well be that some children, based on age or some other characteristic, wound up more thoroughly isolated than the others. But I'm sure all of them are developmentally well behind where they should be.

I will find the article I read today from the MD at the hospital where the adult children are. Her title included Chief of
Trauma and Abuse. She was very clear, all 7 are " mentally Impaired."
 

Margo/Mom

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I think, no matter what arrangements are put into place it is in the best ibterests of the authorities to sustain and nurture that relationship which the siblings have. After all they've lost their parents now (i use that term VERY loosely but a parent is a parent and if their behaviours are all you've known I'm pretty sure you would still love and miss them, in the early days at least) and i can't see much progress being made if all ties between the rest of their family ceased too. I'm sure authorities would have thought if this.

On a completely different subject...family were reported to stay up all night and go to bed 4-5am. Shero escaped some time after that which leads me to believe rest of the house were in bed/asleep AND also that not all the children were chained up at the same time. I wonder what the "criteria" was that they used to determine who was and wasn't secured. If LT/DT felt there was a risk of any of them escaping they would have all been secured but it seems not -LE stated 3 at the time of the rescue. So why just 3?

Idk, im kind of rambling. I just don't get the logic

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I believe in one of the pressers the DA said that they were chained up as punishment. Sooo, if someone talked back? or tried to go outside? or washed above the wrist (this was actually cited as an example), they would be chained up.Possibly even random, as in, who happened to be close by when someone was angry about something. I don't think the chains were about preventing anyone from running away. Those "chains" consisted of internal fears.
 

arkansasmimi

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A picture from 2002 with a 'big cake' has nothing to do with the charges that have been brought against the Turpins.

What cake photo from 2002? And you're correct, nothing in 2002 or Eve after have anything to do with charges against Turpins now. Except 1/1/2010 until 1/14/18 as noted in Complaint. And we haven't seen much of anything at all, for that timeframe. As far as my comment about 2002 was about grandparents and extended family. we know factually that Grandparents and extended family have had contact with Turpin family in timeframe of Complaint.
 

Spice

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Disneyland photo with grandparents and extended family is same day, dressed same.

But agree. One sister Even said no contact in 19 yrs, but her account posted to Turpin acct. If they had reason to think something up, they could have made up something for a welfare check. At anytime. No LEO had any record of anyone contacting. Even neighbor across street who even took them their mail, yet she also saw nothing.Something was going on, that's for sure. But taking what we been told doesn't make sense. Slept all day yet up all night? Yet went to CC, neighbor across street shared hello's, kids to mail box.

Community colleges have evening classes. Do you know what time he took his classes?

It's sad situation, but human nature is to take our own life experiences to form opinions. Media is to grab attention.

Media's job is to report FACTS to the public and retract any erroneously reported information as all MSM sources with veracity will do. It is the publics job to intrinsically understand that to keep informed.

Just like the multiple articles with Texas neighbors contradict.

This is vague. What contradictions are you speaking of? And can you please provide links for such an assertion regarding the Texas neighbors?

Or speaking of stuff that happened when 29 was in early elem. Yet no one they have had contact, real contact with have come forward saying anything. Only neighbors who tell about a memory at age 10, but she's 25 now? Or same didn't even know had moved just tell about mess allegedly left behind.

The amount of assumptions here are difficult to untangle. The neighbors remembered them because they left a PIGSTY behind, because there were bizarre interfaces with the oldest child and the neighbors child who used to play together. They also communicated that they feel guilty for NOT calling as many people in high profile child abuse cases later communicate. They were neighbors. It's difficult to forget a strange neighbor..

It's early in investigation so I think kids where need to be until sorted out. I trust the DA and LEO, try to keep open mind what actually said instead of my opinion meant by said. Hard but I don't trust media

BBM
You are certainly allowed the personal opinion of "not trusting the media". Would you please provide links to the asserted contradictions that you are speaking of with the Texas neighbor?
Responses and questions bolded by me.
 

sunnybree

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I agree. At first we were supposed to believe the 17yo--and therefore all the kids---had only had a 1st grade education.

Now we learn that the parents arranged for the oldest son to attend college, where he maintained a nearly-perfect gpa. (He wasn't taking the hardest courses in the world, but I imagine any accredited college is going to make homeschooled children who can't prove academic rigor take remedial classes to show they are college-ready.)

We learn that two of the daughters would be out of the home getting mail at the mailbox.

We learn that they participated in a Christmas decoration contest, and five of the children attended the award ceremony. It's not like they were recluses, necessarily. A recluse would not participate in neighborhood events.

They've taken kids out to Las Vegas and Disneyland, Krispy Kreme donuts, pictures by the lake.

This paints a far different picture to the one given by the DA, who made it sound like they were living in a dungeon.

I don't know what to think at this point. I do believe the children were not given adequate nutrition or medical/dental care. As I said before, we've only scratched the surface of this case, and the information we've been given so far is highly tilted in favor of the state's position.

Perhaps a lawyerly person could help us out here but take the charge of deprivation of liberty, for example. It is my understanding that in order to be found guilty of such a charge, DT and LT would only have had to detain each child’s liberty ONCE. Only one time in chains, that’s a crime and a serious one. Further we already know the 17 year old took pictures of three in chains, and the police actually caught LT and DR in the act of unchaining two. It doesn’t matter if the oldest son was allowed to attend college. If on any occasion he was tied up or even prevented from leaving the home through physical means, threats, or intimidation, that is a crime.

In my professional experience of abused children, they are not necessarily restricted in their homes. They are usually not homeschooled (homeschooling is a bit different in Australia, parents have to use a curriculum and the child must turn in assignment work etc, so a significant evidence of parental effort is required.) These children go out to school every day, surrounded by teachers and adults, no parent in sight. Yet, these children very often never disclose the abuse in these settings. The psychological chains binding them to the abuser are so strong, the children often only will disclose the full abuse months or even years after leaving the abuse. Abusive adults, including those far down the chain of awfulness, will take steps to further strengthen these chains, particularly in sexual and physical abuse. For example: “no one will ever believe you” “if you tell you’ll be taken away and never see your brothers and sisters again” “if you don’t do x y z out there you’re going to get it”. “How could you do this to me?” And on and on. For me it’s totally believable that some kids were allowed out some times. The parents are confident they’ll never tell. It’s just another way to assert power over the kids.

As for FB, just about every abusive or neglectful parent I have known of are on FB. Of course LT was, it totally fits the pattern. And all the parents would post pictures with comments like “my babies” while in truth the parent is using drugs and forgetting to feed the children or take out the garbage (ever). LT and DT do seem a lot more cunning than your average abusive/neglectful parent. Most live openly chaotic lives in every respect. Only on social media can these parents create a life that looks free of it.
 

Spice

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Totally agree. That's why I trying stick to only facts.

Respectfully, I see a ton of denying facts and minimizing facts, which in turn, minimizes the abuse these children suffered, which I find truly upsetting, extremely disturbing, and highly inappropriate.
 

Bill Carson

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There is zero doubt in my mind that these survivors were horrifically abused for years. None at all. But I do want to address the points made by those who are questioning some of the details.

AFAIK, the comments about the children's mental states came from LE, not from experts in education and childhood psychology/trauma. And they came very quickly after the kids were rescued, and at a point in which immediate medical needs were likely taking priority over cognitive assessment. So it is quite possible to me that LE's impressions of the children's educational and knowledge level were not 100% accurate. If the 17 year old has the educational level of a third grader, for instance, it wouldn't be shocking for someone who doesn't typically work with children to confuse that with first-grade level knowledge.

Similarly, I believe completely that one or more of the children said something to give LE the impression that he or she didn't know what a police officer or medication was. That doesn't necessarily mean that impression was accurate. Maybe the kid didn't recognize the word "cop" or "detective," but actually did have a general sense of what the police did. Maybe a kid who looked confused was asked directly "Do you know what pills are?" and said "no" because she was so scared of giving the wrong answer. In a case like this, it has to be really, really hard to figure out what the kids know and don't know given the layers of trauma they must be dealing with. An untrained officer isn't going to be able to make that kind of assessment.As others have said, it also might well be that some children, based on age or some other characteristic, wound up more thoroughly isolated than the others. But I'm sure all of them are developmentally well behind where they should be.

Given that this is a case in which we KNOW that these kids were kept filthy, starved, and, sometimes, chained I think it makes a lot more sense to assume some version of the above than to think that the DA is trying to exaggerate the abuse in order to win a case. There's no need to exaggerate when the facts are this bad.

I agree with you. It was really too early for the medical/mental health professionals to diagnose specific learning deficiencies and cognitive problems.

But I would also urge caution when you say, "we KNOW that this kids _____." I don't KNOW anything, other than what the police and the prosecutor have said. I don't think they are lying to me, but I haven't seen pictures from the inside of the house. I haven't seen pictures of the children when they were placed in protective custody. Many of the other things that I have been told have been from the children telling police officers things, and then the police officers telling other police officers things, and finally the head police officer making a statement or the DA making a statement. I don't know the context of those statements. "They would only let us take a shower once per year." OR "they would eat Apple pie in front of us while we were starving." OR "if we washed our hands above our wrists we would get beaten." Do all the kids, when separated, agree with that?

It's not that I disbelieve what I'm being told, as much as I'm withholding judgment until I see the proof and hear from the other side.

I will say that the DA certainly seems to be running in front of the cameras when many other large jurisdictions would have a spokesperson do the talking. Does he have political ambitions? Maybe and maybe not.
 

Margo/Mom

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I could not be anymore disappointed that the adult children are going to assisted living. I very firmly believe that they need a parent figure who will teach them how to live in a normal family and that they are loved and supported always.

All adults need a parent! I'm in my mid 30's and still call my parents for advice on things or just for support, especially since I became a parent myself. At some point some of these adults may have their own families and need to know what normal family life is like so they can break the cycle of abuse. They are not going to get this in any sort of assisted or sheltered living type place!


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I take your point. However, in some states, there has been growing awareness of the needs of kids who "age out" of foster care at age 18. A kid with a stable family, even if they move out at age 18 still has a family for back up, may still be on the family phone plan, have a parent paying college tuition, etc. Locally, the mental health system was becoming overloaded with kids who fell apart when they lost their foster kid status. So, as a solution, there have been various things talked about or put in place. One is extending foster care to age 21. Another is to provide an assisted living variation (especially if the former-foster has a baby) to help ease the transition. So, my hope would be that this is the kind of help they are getting. Not the same exactly as what you are suggesting (an actual FAMILY), but still could be in something like the same ball park.
 

Spice

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I have provided links, multiple times. To back up these.

I haven't seen them, must have missed them while reading every thread. What are the contradictions that you see and what substantiated facts led you to see them?
 

arkansasmimi

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Respectfully, I see a ton of denying facts and minimizing facts, which in turn, minimizes the abuse these children suffered, which I find truly upsetting, extremely disturbing, and highly inappropriate.

Not minimizing anything. Nor denying any facts.
 

Bill Carson

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I will find the article I read today from the MD at the hospital where the adult children are. Her title included Chief of
Trauma and Abuse. She was very clear, all 7 are " mentally Impaired."

Mental impairment from the abuse and treatment, undernourishment, etc., or mentally impaired generally (i.e., from other causes)? Or can she say yet?
 
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