CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #7

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MyBelle

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I did not know this. I thought the revelation about the lack of knowing how to use the toothbrushes came from the Chamber of Commerce in charge of receiving donated items for these children. I didn't see it in a media report. I thought a nurse mentioned it to the guy. My bad! I'll look for the media report.


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A nurse may have mentioned it to the guy. The children are crime victims. The public is usually informed about the conditions of crime victims. I truly don't understand the criticism of those who live in that community and are compassionately trying to help these children.
 

arkansasmimi

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What?? It’s not like they were awakened by LE abruptly and jumped right out of bed, since they unrestrained two of the victims. If they had nothing to hide, they never would have unrestrained any of them. They would have opened the door and given their legit reasoning behind changing up their kids, whatever that could possibly be. But I can’t think of any legit reason to chain up your kids, so of course they had no reason to provide LE. If they gave LE an excuse hours later, once they’ve had time to conjure up a story, but couldn’t provide one on the spot, how is the later response credible at all?

My jaw is on the floor after catching up on this thread.
My jaw us too.
 

Ewood66

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Im sure the children knew these special trips were short term and they knew exactly what they would face once they got home if they didnt behave as expected.
Exactly.... which could also demonstrate that these children did not have uncontrollable challenging behaviours which required them to be shackled in the home
 

JaneEyre

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A nurse may have mentioned it to the guy. The children are crime victims. The public is usually informed about the conditions of crime victims. I truly don't understand the criticism of those who live in that community and are compassionately trying to help these children.
I don't have the energy to be outraged about harmless slip-ups, myself. The community cares. This is an unprecedented situation for them. I'm sure the staff is having difficulty not mentioning anything at all about this when they have likely been overwhelmed daily with new, appalling knowledge. These are people I can cut some slack - the helpers, especially when no harm was done. It's just a darned toothbrush.

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kaen

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****NOT JUSTIFICATION**** ****NOT JUSTIFICATION**** ****NOT JUSTIFICATION****

I don't know that anyone has said there were "legitimate" reasons, but finding angles the defense might use is what some do here. Take the restraints -
Schools, and they were homeschooled, were/are allowed to restrain children with autism and other severe behavioral problems (extent of my knowledge)...so might a defense attorney in a high profile case try to build reasonable doubt with this? JMO

****NOT JUSTIFICATION**** ****NOT JUSTIFICATION**** ****NOT JUSTIFICATION****

It is important to understand what restraint and seclusion laws are for children with and without disabilities. The linked PDF is a great resource. Here is an excerpt regarding CA laws:

"For children with disabilities, 38 states by law require schools to provide some meaningful protections against both restraint and seclusion. They are Alabama, Arizona (2015), Alaska, Californiad, Colorado, Connecticut (2015), Floridad, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas (2015), Kentucky, Louisianad, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan (2016), Minnesota, Mississippi (2016), Montana, Nevadad, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvaniad, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Texas, Utah (2015), Vermont, Washington (2015 and 2013 upgrades),21 West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming. (New York has a superscripted (m) because it has a broader regulation for children with disabilities and a more limited regulation for all children.) Louisiana adopted a new law which mandates that an Advisory Committee provide guidance on best practices for reducing the use of restraint and seclusion, and that schools adopt master plans to improve restraint and seclusion practices."

http://www.autcom.org/pdf/HowSafeSchoolhouse.pdf

I think it is important to know that restraints and chaining with metal links and locks to beds are not the same thing and would never be legal in any state. Restraining is meant to protect the child and others from getting hurt as is seclusion. The read of the lawyer and mother is a very good primer on the rights of a family/child in relation to restraint and seclusion.

I work with students with disabilities (in NY) and am not certified in any restraining techniques. There are some people who are but it is not a common technique used in schools but we would EMS students and have health professionals do the management.
 

Snowhite1125

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I did not know this. I thought the revelation about the lack of knowing how to use the toothbrushes came from the Chamber of Commerce in charge of receiving donated items for these children. I didn't see it in a media report. I thought a nurse mentioned it to the guy. My bad! I'll look for the media report.


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Facebook comment on the corona chamber foundation says the hospital told them clothing donations must be new with tags due to the children having a next to nothing immune system
https://www.facebook.com/coronachamberfoundation/videos/1589390224486653/
 

avondale14

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I did not know this. I thought the revelation about the lack of knowing how to use the toothbrushes came from the Chamber of Commerce in charge of receiving donated items for these children. I didn't see it in a media report. I thought a nurse mentioned it to the guy. My bad! I'll look for the media report.


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I still think its far too much information Lucyray, as you do. it will be the case of a new kid will turn up in school (hopefully and eventually) but these kids have been plastered all over the internet. Kids talk, parents bloody talk don't they. Children can be cruel. i hope no more personal info like that gets out.
 

bears10

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My jaw us too.

Because the majority of people believe what LE has stated after interacting with the victims, the monsters, and seeing the house? The house where they also saw one of the victims chained up? I’m just not understanding the adamant perspective that things may not be what they seem, the kids may be diabetic, they may have mental issues, etc.

Anyway, we majorly disagree so I’ll just scroll and roll.
 

JaneEyre

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Hatfield

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Im sure the children knew these special trips were short term and they knew exactly what they would face once they got home if they didnt behave as expected.

Exactly.
In one of the Elvis videos I was watching the children's reactions carefully as Elvis tried to get them to join him on the stage. Some of the kids looked over to the parents area as if to ask for permission first.

I got the impression they were very afraid of the repercussions if they did something wrong and it appears that they had to get permission for practically their every move.

That was the way it came across to me.
 

Leila

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I know some people have mentioned that an uncle said he wanted to adopt the kids, and how that may be a bad idea. And absolutely he should NOT get custody of ANY of them!

I came across this article which mentions that the uncle wrote a book about "the benefits of fasting." People here have already talked about that...BUT in his book, he apparently also recommends "JOURNALING about a 21 day experience of fasting." JOURNALING. Gee, does that sound familar?!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...of-horror-house-kids-wants-to-adopt-them/amp/

This idiot just may have been the one who inspired the monster parents to starve the kids!

None of the kids should be placed anywhere near ANY family members! The entire family are either total sociopaths (like the parents), religious fanatic nutcases, or completely oblivious and clueless. Some may be a combination of everything.

I am still especially worried about what will happen to the older kids. I do believe the minor kids will be safe and cared for in foster homes. But I seriously worry that when all the public attention dies down, people will forget how traumatizied and horribly damaged the older kids are, and the county may start to slip up. People will just start to think "well, they're adults now" and forget that they have no life skills and their entire lives were spent in misery. It's unrealistic and horribly unfair to expect them to magically act like normal adults now. Slowly, they can be rehabilitated and perhaps eventually have a somewhat normal life. But I hope everyone realizes that it will be a long process. Years. I dread to think that these kids may get lost in bureaucracy and neglected all over again once public attention fizzles out.

I've done a bit of research into the background of DT and LT, and I think it's very evident that there's parallels between the strict religious background and the way the Turpins abused their own children.

I think and hope, there's people who are working with the young adults now that will continue to follow them and make sure they're okay.
 

gitana1

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I agree, Lucy; however, as you can see, there are people right on this very thread willing to justify and provide excuses for the horrible behavior of these parents, so maybe as a society we do need to hear the details to understand the horror.

Well certain things will come out in trial. I am a bit surprised at details coming out although no names are being used and the specific health status of any particular patient is being kept private. So it's generalities. I think that's how they are able to divulge.

There are certain cases that the public takes a serious interest in due to the horror of it. I have noticed that hospital officials will give general updates on some of those cases because they are considered of public interest.

Society failed these kids. So now society is vested in ensuring they are recovering and being treated well.

I get the need for information and the release of it. But I do agree that these poor kids are entitled to privacy and to protection form exploitation. They deserve that.

I'm on the fence about what has been discussed.
 

MyBelle

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No detriment to 'Lucyray' at all here, (because that's who you'd responded to, and she was responding to a news report) but that's what perturbed me. Who is this Spiegel guy to be coming out with that to the press.

You'll have to ask him. His comments don't bother me in the least. He's a member of the community and is allowed to express his opinion. Brushing teeth isn't medical information, it is behavioral information and it shows just how repressed these children have been right under the noses of their community.
 

avondale14

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I don't have the energy to be outraged about harmless slip-ups, myself. The community cares. This is an unprecedented situation for them. I'm sure the staff is having difficulty not mentioning anything at all about this when they have likely been overwhelmed daily with new, appalling knowledge. These are people I can cut some slack - the helpers, especially when no harm was done. It's just a darned toothbrush.

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I know what you're saying in the great scheme of things, but honestly, it didn't really need to be said did it, certainly not at this point. It's only been said, in my opinion, to satiate the public.

In my opinion, it just humiliates them further in some peoples' eyes. There's always going to be some dick ready to have a go at them etc...
 

gitana1

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Sometimes I feel I live in a bubble... and it is always distressing in this day and age, when many voices in our society feel that people with disabilities have less rights than the rest of us. The notion of restraints is archaic and inhumane. If the defense tries to say they had disabilities and that was the reason why they were shackled, unfortunately there will be jurors and many people following the case who will actually see this as appropriate.

At the moment, there is no evidence that these siblings had disabilities other than those brought about as a result of their abuse and neglect by their parents.

Yeah. It's pretty awful. For example, there is still this myth in the world of the "strong" or overly sexual person with Down Syndrome.

I worried immediately when I heard the words LE stated, that the couple "were unable to immediately provide a logical reason” for the chaining. That indicates that some believe there can ever be a logical reason. Which is scary.

Also, I was asked what possible defense and one of the first I thought of (possible as in what they might try to bring, not what is legitimate) is that they would try to say the kids had some sort of condition that made them need to be tied up.

Why? Well we have seen that repeatedly in these torture, starvation abuse cases. And society continues, apparently, to view people with disabilities as frightening "others."
 

JaneEyre

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I know what you're saying in the great scheme of things, but honestly, it didn't really need to be said did it, certainly not at this point. It's only been said, in my opinion, to satiate the public.

In my opinion, it just humiliates them further in some peoples' eyes. There's always going to be some dick ready to have a go at them etc...
I don't think the chamber of Commerce guy said it to satiate the public. I think he said it because he feels overwhelmed by this, and let slip a tiny bit of why - how completely in the dark these kids are about how things work. I don't think he had bad intentions at all, and I think it was a slip-up.

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osadelnorte

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Thinking out loud about this terrible situation...

How will the survivors move on when they are no longer in hospitals or care facilities? How long will the care actually last for the adult-aged victims? Will they change their names? I'm wondering if they will be able to live normal lives (as normal as possible for people who have been through so much) when they will be easily recognized and their names are not difficult to find out? It concerns me that they will try to go on to school, work, relationships, community living, etc., and their battles will be difficult enough without everyone they ever meet already knowing salacious and humiliating details of their lives under their parents' care.
 

MyBelle

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I know what you're saying in the great scheme of things, but honestly, it didn't really need to be said did it, certainly not at this point. It's only been said, in my opinion, to satiate the public.

In my opinion, it just humiliates them further in some peoples' eyes. There's always going to be some dick ready to have a go at them etc...

Because they are abuse victims, I doubt the parents retain their parental rights and I doubt the children will continue to carry their last name. I also believe the court will appoint new Guardians to prevent any exploitation.
 
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