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CA - 3 dead, including gunman, Saugus High School, Santa Clarita, 14 Nov 2019

Discussion in 'Rampage Killings and Terrorist Attacks' started by dotr, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. Trino

    Trino Well-Known Member

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    Agreed that this has confused posters. Posts were about Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook shooter. The shooter discussed here did not transfer schools, was not on an IEP.
     


  2. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    No we do not know if NB was on medication or not, but i do agree that it seems to be over prescribed, possibly with very bad results in the young.
    speculation, imo.
     
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  3. firebird

    firebird Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that, I just assumed Prosaic was some new drug I'd never heard of lol. I'm also quite the cynic on this topic. My anectdotal experience is with Cymbalta, which is an SNRI (not an SSRI) prescribed to me for an exercise-related chronic pain issue I was having. I won't soon forget that experience. I literally felt like someone other than myself. Like I had someone else's brain. It was terrifying. When I called the dr. freaking out he was like, oh that's normal and will pass after a few weeks. I was like "no thanks" and never took another one. I think a lot of people, especially young people (a) would not necessarily recognize their reaction to the drug as potentially problematic and reach out to their doc about it, or (b) would listen to the dr's advice and wait for the side effects to abate. It really worries me how many people are on these drugs - for everyone's sake, including their own. I do recognize that they help some people, but I believe they are WAY overprescribed and are far more dangerous than people realize. Heck, I took nearly every mind altering recreational drug under the sun in my misspent youth and none of those were half as concerning as the cymbalta experience!
     
  4. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I totally believe you and I've heard many similar stories.

    My best friend in high school went on Prozac and her personality permanently changed. She became violent, angry, manipulative, abusive, and just "off" in general. She also occasionally had hallucinations. It also didn't make her any less depressed or suicidal than she previously was...in fact it debatably got worse. Our friend group tried to deal with it for a few years but eventually she and I had a falling out and the rest of our friend group was like "you know what, I don't think we can deal with this anymore either" and all distanced themselves from her over the next few months.

    Meanwhile I feel like the original cause of her depression was probably chronic sleep deprivation and burnout. We went to one of the most demanding public schools in the country with long commutes, lots of pressure to get into a top college and have tons of extracurriculars, etc. and sleeping 4-6 hours a night was commonplace. Almost anyone is going to be depressed under those circumstances.
     
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  5. Tippy Lynn

    Tippy Lynn Well-Known Member

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    I agree, alcoholism and domestic violence is unhealthy for any family. There was very likely troubles in their home. However, being a big game hunter and owning guns does not make a person, family or home unstable.
     
  6. Tippy Lynn

    Tippy Lynn Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!
     
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  7. firebird

    firebird Well-Known Member

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    How sad about your friend. Damn. And I understand they're pretty hard to stop once you've started. I had only been taking Cymbalta for a few days, maybe a week, so it was no problem for me. But I'm sure plenty of people who would like to quit just aren't up for that weaning process.
     
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  8. Trino

    Trino Well-Known Member

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    After surgery I was given oxycodone. When my husband found my lost cell phone in the refrigerator, I got off oxy fast.
     
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  9. claudianunes

    claudianunes Well-Known Member

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    If I ever have to take something like oxy I would refuse and ask for something else. Oxy is crazy.
     
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  10. Ray_of_hope

    Ray_of_hope Verified registered nurse

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    I wondered about that and was afraid to bring it up. Medical professionals also have to do a series of testing, EEG's etc to demonstrate no brain activity and that takes some time. When I was practicing we needed 3 EEG's between specified intervals among other criteria. His mother would also have to agree to take him off of life support. I hope in his death he was able to save some, but that doesn't bring any of his victims back. It's such a dilemma, but if they were able to harvest any organs, I sure hope they did. :(
     
  11. Ray_of_hope

    Ray_of_hope Verified registered nurse

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    I remember a posting about possible girlfriend issues. You were spot on. I sure hope she receives help because it was certainly not her fault.
     
  12. Ray_of_hope

    Ray_of_hope Verified registered nurse

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    Totally agree and it's been bothering me for days. I wouldn't want to know either. But I'm glad another (hopefully more than one) innocent was saved.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  13. Bravo

    Bravo Well-Known Member

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    Agree. I really feel for her. I have a gut feeling it was a one sided relationship. All about him and his needs.
     
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  14. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm just a consequentialist but it wouldn't bother me in the slightest to receive an organ transplant from a killer. In most cases when an organ becomes available it means some sort of tragedy happened anyway.

    I also suspect this was the case, and that he had probably gotten more needy leading up to this as his mental health worsened, leading her to end the relationship.
     
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  15. TristanP

    TristanP Well-Known Member

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    Keeping in the home when there are clearly problems is certainly no indication of good judgment.
     
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  16. bombardier

    bombardier Well-Known Member

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    with this current discussion about psychiatric medications (mostly antidepressants) and school shooters/mass shooters, i'd caution everyone to keep in mind that correlation is not causation and to be critical about what you read!
    eg i cant find the source right now but if its true that many school shooters were on antidepressants, you can either interpret that as 'being on antidepressants makes you more likely to shoot up a school' (a direct causal relationship that hasn't been proven) or 'there is something about these kids, like pre-existing mental illness, that causes them to both be on antidepressants and commit a shooting' (a correlational relationship that doesn't say anything about effect of antidepressants on homicidal violence)
    im not saying that a causal relationship definitely doesn't exist, just that it currently is not backed up by research and evidence (case studies are NOT enough to prove a causational relationship).
     
  17. Ray_of_hope

    Ray_of_hope Verified registered nurse

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    Absolutely, that's why we should critique every study, well put. Thank you.
     
  18. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    SSRIs are now legally required to have black box warnings that they can increase the risk of suicidal ideation in people under age 24. The drug companies denied that was the case for years.

    Side effects associated with violence are also listed for SSRIs. For example: Fluoxetine Side Effects: Common, Severe, Long Term - Drugs.com

    Common (1% to 10%): Abnormal dreams, agitation, disturbance in attention, emotional lability, hostility, hypomania, mania, personality disorder, restlessness, sleep disorder, tension, thinking abnormal

    Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Akathisia, apathy, bruxism, depersonalization, elevated mood, euphoria, intentional overdose, manic reaction, neurosis, paranoid reaction, psychomotor hyperactivity, psychosis, suicidal thoughts and behavior, suicide attempt

    Rare (less than 0.1%): Aggression, antisocial reaction, delusions, dysphemia, hallucinations, panic attacks
     
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  19. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    what is your explanation for the fact these are used all over the world without the same outcomes
     
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  20. bombardier

    bombardier Well-Known Member

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    this is true, and doesn't contradict the points I made in my prior message. The side effect of "aggression" is listed as rare, in less than 0.1% of those tested. I assume serious aggression and violence leading to homicide is very VERY rare and not statistically significant in the discussion of SSRI side effects.
    The association between medication use and increased risk of suicidal ideation is known and proven like you said (one reason is the start of antidepressant use can increase motivation and energy while not affecting low mood yet -> motivated to actually commit suicide), but I would be very wary about correlating risk of suicide/violence against oneself with risk of homicide/violence against others. Those with mental illness are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators.
     

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