CA - 3 dead, including gunman, Saugus High School, Santa Clarita, 14 Nov 2019

Discussion in 'Rampage Killings and Terrorist Attacks' started by dotr, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    10,000 honor teens killed in Santa Clarita school shootin

    [​IMG]
    Apu Gomes/Getty Images

    Yvonne Pane, Danielle Pane, Anh-Thi Ta and Ha Trinh pray while holding candles at a vigil held for shooting victims in Santa Clarita, California.

    "(CNN) - Terrified and huddled in the corner of a classroom, sisters Jaimee and Madi Roeschke were ready to take on the gunman.

    "One of the students that was with us passed scissors out to everybody," Madi told CNN's "New Day" Monday.

    "In some of the drills from last year, they taught us to arm ourselves with anything that we could, such as scissors, chairs, any heavy objects, just in case the shooter were to find us."


    "At a vigil for the victims Sunday night, "I was crying the whole time for Gracie and Dominic," Madi said.

    She was far from alone. More than 10,000 mourners gathered at the vigil in Santa Clarita, the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department said.

    Grace's brother, Riley Muehlberger, broke down as he told the crowd about his "gorgeous, radiant, angelic, caring, intelligent and energetic" sister.

    "I watched you grow more and more every day," he said.

    "My favorite about you, Gracie, was how funny you were. You were always able to put a smile on my face, and that's one of the things I'll miss the most," he said.

    "Thank you for being the best sister ever. I wouldn't want anyone else. Until I see you again, I love you, Gracie."

    The massive crowd also grieved the death of Dominic, who was a member of the school's Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (JROTC)."
     


  2. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    In Europe, they have the same approach as the US and children with special needs. How about Canada?

    The statistics were posted earlier about the use of psychotropic drugs around the world. So there is more psychotropic drug use but not the school shootings that are in the US
     
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  3. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    Because as I said, it's a multi-factorial problem.

    The US is definitely #1 in antidepressant use by far.
    Something startling is going on with antidepressant use around the world

    The only other country that comes close is Iceland, and Iceland has a very different culture than the US. It is very tight-knit and community oriented, with a particular emphasis on social welfare, and has an extremely low rate of crime in general due to these factors. The US meanwhile, has an isolationist culture. A lot of times people don't have anyone looking out for them, and warning signs may be overlooked -- including a change in mood or personality after starting or adjusting a medication.

    Other countries also have very different healthcare systems than the US and that likely makes a difference as well.

    Also, rampage killings and their body counts are increasing in other countries as well. And there is an increase in attacks that don't use guns, ie. van attacks or knife attacks.

    EDIT: School attacks in China (2010–12) - Wikipedia
     
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  4. human

    human Well-Known Member

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  5. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    I am a US citizen living in a foreign country where guns are not allowed . The country has a high unemployment rate, there is divorce, illegal drugs, children never knowing their fathers and sometimes their mothers, incest, domestic violence , no alcohol or drug treatment programs, lots of strong psychotropic drugs prescribed. In order to get money for disability, they have to go and be checked by a doctor once a month to make sure they are taking their meds. These are the homeless ones.

    But there are zero school shootings.
     
  6. sillybilly

    sillybilly WS Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Admin Reminder:

    Gun control discussion is not allowed at Websleuths.
     
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  7. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Marco Reynoso hugs his son, 11th-grader Dylan Reynoso, after reuniting at a park near Saugus High School after a shooting at the school.

    How to help Saugus High School victims' families and students - CNN
    Support through kind words

    Saugus High School is asking for messages of support on its website SaugusStrong.org. The site reads "this website is a place for family, friends, neighbors to begin the healing process, find the resources they need and connect with one another."
    It continues, "please send a message of love and support and add in your location. This way those who need it most -- will be able to feel the embrace of those within our community, across the nation and around the globe."
     
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  8. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    Last Santa Clarita shooting victim goes home; students can pick up belongings at Saugus High

    "Two students — 15-year-old Gracie Muehlberger and 14-year-old Dominic Blackwell — died hours after the shooting. Three others were taken to nearby hospitals with gunshot wounds. A 14-year-old boy was released Thursday afternoon, and a 14-year-old girl was released Friday.

    The last hospitalized victim, a 15-year-old girl, was released from Providence Holy Cross Medical Center on Monday night, according to a hospital spokesperson.

    In the aftermath of Thursday’s attack, students were escorted from the campus by law enforcement and taken to a nearby park to be reunited with their families. Books, schoolwork and other items were left behind.

    Mike Kuhlman, deputy superintendent for William S. Hart Union High School District, said students may pick up their belongings from 10 a.m. to noon Tuesday.

    Classes at the Santa Clarita high school have been canceled until Dec. 2 in the wake of the violence, but the school won’t be closed entirely. School administrators have organized events and activities to help students heal from the trauma, including two counseling sessions: 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. Wednesday and 10 a.m. to noon Thursday."

    ****

    Uptick in school threats reported in region after Saugus High shooting in Santa Clarita – Daily News

    "With parents, students and school districts on edge after last week’s deadly shooting at a Santa Clarita high school, law enforcement agencies across the region have been fielding numerous reports of people who have threatened similar violence.

    Possible threats against schools began rolling in within a day of the Thursday morning shooting at Saugus High School, where a 16-year-old student pulled out a .45 caliber handgun from a backpack, then fired at students waiting for class to start in the campus quad, before shooting himself.

    Two of the victims died, as did the shooter, and several others were wounded.

    On Sunday, the Santa Clarita Valley sheriff’s station said deputies were investigating “multiple false threats” against schools in the same school district as Saugus that were found on social media.

    That included an investigation into a “vague post” referencing Nov. 18, the day when most schools in the district were scheduled to reopen after the shooting.

    Several threats were made against other schools across Southern California over the weekend and on Monday.

    Administrators at Wilson High School in Long Beach sent an alert to parents on Friday saying the campus received a threat over the phone at around 11 a.m., which led to students being held from attending lunch for about 25 minutes. On Monday, at Carson High School, a threat led administrators to lock down the school and call the sheriffs department.

    Whittier Christian High School in La Habra canceled classes Monday after a shooting threat was found on social media, school officials said. La Habra police found the source of the threat — a teenage boy at his home — the same day.

    By the afternoon, San Dimas High School was also placed on lockdown after a possible threat, leading sheriff’s deputies to sweep the school. Later, deputies arrested two 15-year-old boys on suspicion of reporting a false emergency, sheriff’s Sgt. Wilson Wong said. He said the teenagers are students at Canyon View School in San Dimas.

    In Riverside, police arrested a 17-year-old for a threatening post directed at Ramona High School. He was booked in Riverside County juvenile hall on suspicion of making criminal threats and illegal possession of ammunition.

    It’s a frequent and unwelcome cycle for police and parents weary from gun violence in places that are supposed to be safe — each time a school shooting captures the public’s attention, new reports of threats pour in, law enforcement officials said.

    That could be because parents and students are watching for threats of violence more closely. Or it could be a teenager thinking it’s funny to say something shocking on social media. It could also be copycats wishing to sow chaos with vague threats, or plotting to eventually act out violently themselves.

    For police, the fact that it’s hard to tell the real threats from the fake ones means they must respond to each one as a serious matter. Social media both amplifies the reach of threats and increases their volume.

    “It is virtually impossible — actually, it is impossible — to try to filter or contain or at least be able to vet in any kind of way all of the information that is flooding the minds and emotions of our communities,” said Greg Murphy, the chief of police for the Cal State Northridge.

    [...]

    Complicating matters is the fact that threats can come from anywhere.

    Lt. Doug Mohrhoff of the Santa Clarita Valley sheriff’s station said some of the threats against William S. Hart Union School District over the weekend came from outside of the station’s jurisdiction.

    Previously, widespread threats have even come from outside the country. In April 2018, FBI officials investigated a series of emails sent to schools across the state containing threatening language; police determined they originated in Europe.

    It wasn’t clear Monday if any of the threats made against Santa Clarita schools were international.

    FBI officials in Los Angeles were not able to confirm whether their investigators were working on any cases in Santa Clarita. But officials said a task force in the L.A office typically receives several reports of threats against a variety of targets every day.

    Most often, threats come from nearby. In three of the most recent incidents following the Saugus High School shooting, in Carson, La Habra and Riverside, appeared to be teenagers making vague threats on social media.

    In Riverside, police apparently had enough evidence of a threat, including the fact that the teenager had access to ammunition, to make the arrest.

    In San Dimas, like others, sheriffs deputies determine the threat was fake. They cautioned that falsely reporting an emergency is a crime.

    “All clear at San Dimas High School after a prank call,” sheriffs officials said on Twitter. “It’s no joke kids!”"
     
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  9. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    Saugus High School Gun Was Possibly Modified

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    The investigation into how a 16-year-old student at Saugus High School obtained the 45-caliber pistol used in Thursday's school murders and shooting has become more complicated, as the handgun found at the scene appears to have been modified from its original form, several law enforcement sources told NBC News.

    "We know the make and the model," LA County Sheriff Alex Villanueva told NBC's Miguel Almaguer. "We're not going to release that information until they do their complete analysis of the firearm itself. All we can release right now, is we know it's a 45, we're going through it, our firearms experts are going through it, and we're being assisted by the ATF."

    The handgun may have been purchased in one form and had a cosmetic feature or barrel changed, the sources said.

    Numerous other firearms were found during a search of the home where the 16-year-old Saugus High School attacker lived, including assault weapons and handguns. Law enforcement officials said they were also investigating whether the teen had unlawful access to the weaponry.

    ATF agents said they had traced the histories of six other firearms found at the teenager's home, and Villanueva said investigators had accounted for a number of guns once registered to the teen's father, most of which were seized by the Sheriff's Department several years ago.

    Villanueva said there were also weapons that were not registered to the father. "Some of the firearms were not registered at all."


    Law enforcement sources familiar with the investigation told NBC4 Thursday guns and gun parts were found in several different areas of the home. A box truck was brought to the home by LA County Sheriff's deputies to transport the weapons and other evidence.

    The guns taken from the family's home several years ago were destroyed, the sources said. The seizure followed an incident which led to the father undergoing a mental health evaluation, they said.
     
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  10. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    Weapon used in Saugus High shooting was 'kit gun,' authorities say

    The weapon used in the Saugus High School shooting that claimed the lives of two students and wounded three others was a "kit gun" assembled from parts, Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva told Eyewitness News.

    Authorities are attempting to determine how the "kit gun" was assembled and by whom -- the suspect or his late father. When investigators searched the suspect's home as they sought a motive for the attack, six firearms were found at the home that were all registered to the suspect's late father.

    "The mystery is trying to piece together who assembled what and at what point in time," Villanueva said.

    "Kit guns" can be sold at gun shows, online and can be bought with 80% of the weapon already assembled, the sheriff said.

    "They're sold as a kit. You can legally buy it, assemble the weapon yourself and then you have a gun that is not registered and no one knows that you have it, and that is very dangerous," Villanueva said.

    [....]

    Villanueva says investigators are pursuing every lead in trying to determine a motive for the deadly school shooting.

    Deputies have interviewed more than 45 people so far.

    Authorities are attempting to access Berhow's phone to gain more information.

    "We're working with some federal entities to help us unlock the cellphone to get through that information, so that's still one of the challenges," Villanueva said.

    Santa Clarita shooting: Weapon used in Saugus High attack a 'ghost gun,' sheriff says
    [...]
    Sheriff’s homicide detectives are trying to determine who built the .45-caliber handgun, a 1911-model pistol. The weapon included a partially built receiver, meaning it did not contain a serial number.
    [...]
    Investigators say it’s unclear who assembled the kit gun, but they are examining Berhow’s electronic communications in an effort to find answers, officials said.
    [...]
    Authorities are seeing a proliferation of such untraceable weapons. LAPD officials say they have seen a growing number of the weapons in the last six years.
    [...]
    “About a third of all firearms seized in Southern California now are unserialized, and that is expected to grow,” Ginger Colbrun, a spokeswoman for the Los Angeles region’s ATF office, told The Times in August.

    Those with lengthy criminal histories usually buy their weapons on the black market, according to law enforcement officials. In one raid last year, authorities recovered 45 ghost guns following a six-month undercover operation in Hollywood. In that case, some of the weapons, which police said were made by a gang, were assault weapons.

    Such weapons often come in kits and can be acquired at gun shows or by mail. As one expert described it, the guns are as easy to assemble as Ikea furniture. A pistol consists of a frame, which includes the trigger housing that may need some tabs shaved off and several holes drilled before it can accept the barrel and action and then fire. The frame is known as an 80% receiver because it comes mostly, but not completely, manufactured. It is a finished gun with no serial numbers and therefore avoids background checks and waiting periods.
     
  11. claudianunes

    claudianunes Well-Known Member

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    Why would they keep the guns at the home if the person who used the guns was not even around anymore? And the person that did use them was violent. I don't understand why people are so careless with these things. You have kids on that home, come on now.
     
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  12. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    I could see his family not getting around to selling them with everything else going on. Or perhaps there were some legal issues with transferring ownership in order to sell. I wonder if his mom looked into it enough to know that some of the guns were unregistered.

    But I also wonder if they were even locked up considering they were found in several different areas of the home....

    Also I wonder if Nate had an iPhone: FBI–Apple encryption dispute - Wikipedia
     
  13. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Saugus High Shooting Survivor Speaks Out: ‘I Am Doing Well’
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    Addison Koegle in a video posted on Nov. 18, 2019.

    “I wanted to let everyone know that I am doing well and I am at home with my family,” Koegle said in the video. “I would like to thank the students, teachers and staff and the first responders who literally saved my life on Thursday.”

    At around 7:30 a.m. on Nov. 14, authorities say Nathaniel Berhow opened fire with a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol in the quad of Saugus High on his 16th birthday. Five students were struck, including 15-year-old Gracie Anne Muehlberger and 14-year-old Dominic Michael Blackwell, who were killed.

    Koegle said she was good friends with both victims.

    “I have known Gracie Anne Muehlberger for six amazing years,” Koegle said. “And I know pretty much everything about her. I’ve only known Dom since about September, but it’s felt like a lifetime because we became such fast friends. While knowing both of these amazing people I’ve learned so much about them. Gracie was unique and she cared about others the way no one else could. Just by being around her was one of the best feelings in the world, and I wish I could be around her just one last time.”

    “Dom had a great soul, a kind heart, a loving spirit and so much more,” she went on."
     
  14. claudianunes

    claudianunes Well-Known Member

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    Well, the guns could have been destroyed.
     
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  15. human

    human Well-Known Member

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  16. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    Depends on what profile you're using:

    Opinion: There is no single profile of a mass shooter. Our data show there are five types
    "The K-12 school shooter (based on our analysis of 13 mass shooters and 54 attempted mass shooters) is usually a white (85%) male (100%) student or former student of the school (91%) with a history of trauma (70%). Some 92% of K-12 shooters are suicidal. The schools affected tend to be suburban or rural (92%) public (98%) high schools (93%), and the shootings most often occur at the start or end of the school year, in September or May. Some 87% of K-12 shooters leak their plans ahead of time, and 85% show a high degree of planning. The majority of the shooters have a previous interest in guns and, 80% of the time, use multiple guns belonging to family members."

    School Shooters: What's Their Path To Violence?
    Most shooters in these cases had led difficult lives, the studies find.

    "Adolescent school shooters, there's no question that they're struggling and there have been multiple failures in their lives," says Reid Meloy, a forensic psychologist who has consulted with the FBI.
    [....]

    So what makes a small minority of kids who have mental health issues and thoughts of suicide turn to violence and homicide?

    Meloy and Van Dreal think it's because these individuals had been struggling alone — either because they were unable to ask for help or their cries went unheard when the adults in their lives didn't realize the child needed support.
    [....]

    And studies have shown that most school shooters have led particularly stressful lives.

    Many, though not all, of the perpetrators have experienced childhood traumas such as physical or emotional abuse, and unstable families, with violent, absent or alcoholic parents or siblings, for example. And most have experienced significant losses."
    [....]

    Easy access to guns — one of the biggest risk factors — then turns these fantasies into reality.
     

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