CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

[rosesfromangels]

LOL thanks for that.....good to know

Goes a long way, too, for folks to stop getting the vapors at the idea of a 69year old woman in a bikini with a beer in her hand.....more power to her, is what I say!!

Yes, I think BT has become somewhat of a folk hero at this point. Let's just get her back home...

 

[kay74]

I agree that age isn’t a consideration in this case. 72 is not that old...says Lilibet who is 73 1/2 and whose husband is 3 months away from a vigorous 75. We are both perfectly capable of murdering each other if we were so inclined. So I think we can leave RT’s age out of it...and quit calling him “elderly”! From where I sit 80 is elderly and it won’t feel elderly when I get there!

There are plenty of reasons besides age to consider him a victim at this point. JMO

I totally agree! I actually think elderly would be close to 85. My mother drove until she was 91 and lived alone in a ranch house in the city until 97. I'm in my mid 70's and do everything I did when I was 40!

 

[tara83]

I'm very pleased that it does sound like LE is exploring all options.So much bothers me about RT's comments and behavior but I have faith the truth will come out and justice will be served.

 

[kkdj]

That is rather interesting, and curious, if you study that from a literal perspective

yes.

 

[MsBetsy]

This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns, and there is certainly a group sentiment towards RT.

I'm trying to look at this factually, without my own personal filters that obscure logic and reason.

What I know (which is little):
-Two senior citizens living in the desert, seemingly happy and living a good life
-Wife is about to go see ailing brother in China; but disappears while on a hike with husband prior to her trip.
-Hiking excursions were normal for the couple
-Wife disappeared wearing a bikini, carrying a beer, and wearing a red ball cap.
-Husband did not call her son to inform she was missing
-Husband cancelled her flight to China
-Husband says he took a polygraph and LE said he was being deceptive
-Husband states he has nothing to do with BT's disappearance and that he believes she was abducted while crossing the highway to get back to the RV

So where does this leave us?
A husband stating innocence, and a missing BT, likely deceased. (Although we always hold out hope).

The burning questions for me are what were the actions the day or two before they went hiking? Did the neighbors hear any arguing, did anyone see or talk to BT and was she in distress? Was there any indication the husband was not in favor of the China trip? What did her life insurance look like, and when was it applied for? Is the husband on any type of meds? Did he go to the hardware store and buy any shovels/ropes/tarps, duct tape, etc? Bleach?

These are some of the questions that must be addressed.
Until I hear answers on the above, I am treating the husband as a Victim. It's hard for me to believe that an elderly (albeit vigorous looking) 72 year old is capable of the nefarious act some are speculating he committed.

I remain on the fence, but Victim friendly until/if such time as LE changes the Victim status.

I will also ask....what if you are wrong in your accusatory speculations? What harm have your posts created? How would you feel in his shoes if he is innocent? I ask myself these questions every time before I post.

Amateur opinion and speculation

You have made a lot of good points!
After all, there has been no evidence that a crime has even been committed.
Only speculation based on behavior and actions that may or may not be true.

Concerning him not notifying Barbara's son right away, there may be a reasonable explanation for that.
Earlier it was mentioned that LE had possession of Robert's phone in the beginning of the investigation. Do we know if he even knew Barbaras son's number? Maybe the wrong number that was given was the number he thought it was, but LE had to search through his phone to ultimately find it.
Or maybe he was just so overwhelmed with what was going on that he assumed another family member had contacted Barbara's son.

Apparently they didn't get along , and for all we know Barbara hadn't seen her son for years so he just didn't think about it right away. He must have been overwhelmed between talking to investigators, notifying family members, and trying to figure out what happened to his wife. Not to mention dealing with his grief.

As for him hanging out in certain places and staying in his RV, or leaving the dog at the kennel, I'm not sure if any of that has been verified either. And if true, we don't know the reasons for it. Maybe he finds comfort in the people who he is hanging out with at the casino (if true) and he can't stand being alone in his house because Barbara is not there.
Maybe he feels as if he can't take care of the dog right now. Or maybe it's just a painful reminder of his wife.

Considering that he is a victim, he has been getting a lot of criticism and accusations that he has committed a crime when there has been absolutely no evidence that a crime even occurred.

In fact LE has stated from the beginning that they do not suspect foul play and as far as I know that has not changed.

Of course if there is evidence of a crime that points to him I certainly wouldn't have a hard time believing it. After all, we don't know these people at all and don't know what evidence LE has or if they have had any success following up on leads.
We just don't know yet.

I just hope they can find out what happened to Barbara, and if it does turn out someone is responsible, that justice is served. The family at least deserves to know what happened, if that's even possible at this point. Imo

 

[cazador]

Interesting side note.. Approximate same time when BT goes missing I was watching another missing person case approx 300 miles away. That woman went missing while her husband parked a vehicle in the middle of wilderness camping. Days later she was found with her dog and her story was this.. A man had her walking with him and she escaped..
She said this on the news with her family beside her...
I was thinking to myself, where is that man ?
Then BT goes missing..
One has to keep an open mind ?

A thought in defense of RT... Anything is possible.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I agree re LE.
The data in the picture will provide not only at what day but also at what time it was taken.
If he called at noon, and said she went missing at 11.and for example the picture was at 10:45, the data of the picture shows just that.

There are several tools to check the data on this picture. It also gives the coordinates.
If the picture is cropped, the older data will still be in it.

What if it was a "picture of a picture" on a digital camera? I have literally wondered if someone in LE snapped that photo.

 

[PommyMommy]

Both this version of the photo and the mirrored one appear to lack the Exif data that would indicate where & when the photo was taken. I'm no expert, but think that such info often disappears when photos are posted to and subsequently downloaded from certain sites.

I don't know whether Exif data is preserved when a photo is cropped but guess that it depends on what app is used. For instance, if a screenshot is taken of the photo, my guess is that the info disappears; others can correct me if I'm wrong. I hope that LE does have the data for that photo, especially if it was said to have been taken on the day Barbara disappeared. I suspect that they do unless it was scanned from a print or something like that. MOO

Yep, and you can add "if it came from Facebook" to the list of reasons there would be no Exif data. Facebook strips the data when you upload a photo. (Not that I think this photo came from FB.) MOO

 

[PaulR]

What if it was a "picture of a picture" on a digital camera? I have literally wondered if someone in LE snapped that photo.

There's not much point in doing that. They want a good photo, have the original from the cell phone. I'm pretty sure this clipped from a landscape photo, BT standing with her back to something she wanted her photo taken in front of, and LE is using that. It ends up being low-res as a result, which is why I think some people believe she looks younger in the photo (helpful tip, low resolution photos hide wrinkles!)

 

[CSIDreamer]

There's not much point in doing that. They want a good photo, have the original from the cell phone. I'm pretty sure this clipped from a landscape photo, BT standing with her back to something she wanted her photo taken in front of, and LE is using that. It ends up being low-res as a result, which is why I think some people believe she looks younger in the photo (helpful tip, low resolution photos hide wrinkles!)

You know for sure that's from a cell, not a digital camera?

 

[PaulR]

You know for sure that's from a cell, not a digital camera?

No, but RT had a cell, and I don't know many people who even own regular digital cameras anymore. Cell phone cameras are excellent, backup your photos, let you send them to friends easily, and so on.

Note that if he was using a regular digital camera, EXIF data likely won't have the geolocation data that some here would want anyway.

 

[CSIDreamer]

No, but RT had a cell, and I don't know many people who even own regular digital cameras anymore. Cell phone cameras are excellent, backup your photos, let you send them to friends easily, and so on.

Note that if he was using a regular digital camera, EXIF data likely won't have the geolocation data that some here would want anyway.

I'm asking because a picture of a picture isn't always that clear, as we see here. Plus RT said he put his *camera* away, not his phone. But I still own a digital camera.

 

[Jo in Calif]

No, but RT had a cell, and I don't know many people who even own regular digital cameras anymore. Cell phone cameras are excellent, backup your photos, let you send them to friends easily, and so on.

Note that if he was using a regular digital camera, EXIF data likely won't have the geolocation data that some here would want anyway.

So why was he putting his camera away when she rounded the corner and that’s the last he ever saw of her?
If he didn’t have a camera he wouldn’t have been putting it away.

 

[PaulR]

I'm asking because a picture of a picture isn't always that clear, as we see here. Plus RT said he put his *camera* away, not his phone. But I still own a digital camera.

You're the one!

I know a lot of people (and I include myself) who call it a cell phone a camera when they use it as a camera. Maybe us older types who remember buying rolls of 35mm film and hoping that one shot looked good.

 

[squareandrabbet]

From Koester: due to reduction in visual field, people with dementia are more likely to keep going in a straight line, until they get stuck.

They also are less likely to leave verifiable clues, and many are not responsive - they won't cry out for help or respond to calls.

The book pages for this are 161-163.

We do not know if BT had dementia but it is common (p. 72) for that not to be reported to SAR.

What about the principle that says that nobody walks "in a straight line" in the wilderness, despite thinking/believing that they do?

Humans Walk in Circles When They're Lost

Would probably appear pretty eerie from footage:

"Once the moon disappeared behind the clouds, all of a sudden he turned 90 degrees, and turned 90 degrees again," said Jan Souman, the lead author of the study published today in the journal Current Biology. "In a desert you really can walk in a straight line, if you have the sun to guide you."

Souman and his colleagues decided to include the second forest experiment to see how well people could keep a straight course when they were forced to maneuver around objects. Not surprisingly, people in the forest fared even worse and again, cloud coverage made a difference.

The four volunteers who walked on a cloudy day in the forest repeatedly went in circles, sometimes every 10 minutes.

"They didn't really believe when we showed them afterwards," said Souman. "I think that's certainly a point to take away, people may feel very confident about the direction where they're going but it's not certain."

Every article that I found discussing this phenomenon, said that researchers have, as of yet, been unable to figure out why.

 

[gloomy]

Maybe I'm just naive but I don't like to think that RT did something terrible to Barbara. I know loved ones do and have done awful things to their significant others, it happens too often. But I can't say that his behavior bothers me - I don't even know him. I don't believe that there is a certain way an innocent or guilty person would behave in such a situation. Of course I trust LE and I hope Barbara is found soon!

 

[PaulR]

What about the principle that says that nobody walks "in a straight line" in the wilderness, despite thinking/believing that they do?

Humans Walk in Circles When They're Lost

Would probably appear pretty eerie from footage:



Every article that I found discussing this phenomenon, said that researchers have, as of yet, been unable to figure out why.

Apparently leg length matters too when it comes to this.

There's a whole bunch of ways that lost people try to get out of the situation. Sounds like the best way is to head back the way you came, which most people don't want to do.

 

[k-mac]

This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns, and there is certainly a group sentiment towards RT.

I'm trying to look at this factually, without my own personal filters that obscure logic and reason.

What I know (which is little):
-Two senior citizens living in the desert, seemingly happy and living a good life
-Wife is about to go see ailing brother in China; but disappears while on a hike with husband prior to her trip.
-Hiking excursions were normal for the couple
-Wife disappeared wearing a bikini, carrying a beer, and wearing a red ball cap.
-Husband did not call her son to inform she was missing
-Husband cancelled her flight to China
-Husband says he took a polygraph and LE said he was being deceptive
-Husband states he has nothing to do with BT's disappearance and that he believes she was abducted while crossing the highway to get back to the RV

So where does this leave us?
A husband stating innocence, and a missing BT, likely deceased. (Although we always hold out hope).

The burning questions for me are what were the actions the day or two before they went hiking? Did the neighbors hear any arguing, did anyone see or talk to BT and was she in distress? Was there any indication the husband was not in favor of the China trip? What did her life insurance look like, and when was it applied for? Is the husband on any type of meds? Did he go to the hardware store and buy any shovels/ropes/tarps, duct tape, etc? Bleach?

These are some of the questions that must be addressed.
Until I hear answers on the above, I am treating the husband as a Victim. It's hard for me to believe that an elderly (albeit vigorous looking) 72 year old is capable of the nefarious act some are speculating he committed.

I remain on the fence, but Victim friendly until/if such time as LE changes the Victim status.

I will also ask....what if you are wrong in your accusatory speculations? What harm have your posts created? How would you feel in his shoes if he is innocent? I ask myself these questions every time before I post.

Amateur opinion and speculation

you have roses in your heart roses from angels
truly are such a nice websleuther!

sceptic hearts v's trusting hearts.

neither are bad.

moo

 

[PommyMommy]

I'm asking because a picture of a picture isn't always that clear, as we see here. Plus RT said he put his *camera* away, not his phone. But I still own a digital camera.

Don't feel alone, I do too. I don't use it as much as I do my phone, but every once in awhile I take it out and dust it off. MOO

 

[LAhiker]

Apparently leg length matters too when it comes to this.

There's a whole bunch of ways that lost people try to get out of the situation. Sounds like the best way is to head back the way you came, which most people don't want to do.

While retracing one's steps is often a good idea, according to this recent article, the first step is to stop moving, calm down, and figure out what to do next. JMO

Lost on the hiking trail? 6 ways to improve your chances of getting found