Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by fictionisbetter, Jul 13, 2019.
if it were me, it would be 'how many b**&^% photos can you take of a rock!'
It is possible, however much i think she did not get lost. given what we know definitively, the realm of possibility is large.
Of course we don't know the details of that conversation where LE told him he was deceptive. It could have been anything- like "did you have a fight with your wife that day?" or did you ever fight about (insert topic here)? or did you ever have or think about having an affair? etc... He may well have been deceptive about something that has nothing to do with how or why BT is missing.
Of course being deceptive to the police is a red-flag but some still try to hide details of their lives they feel LE is not entitled to know.
This one is just going to have to wait until LE uncovers some discrepancy in the timeline, an incriminating electronic data point, or someone finds "other" evidence in the desert.
Thank you, looks great!
34.7935010, -115.6097090 Google Maps
I have trouble believing BT missed the trail and headed down the pole line road. Hard to believe that one could be mistaken for the other. I also think she would have been past that intersection anyway if RT's account to family is accurate. MOO
Trail (Source: 1. West Valley SAR on Twitter, and 2. AZ - AZ - Barbara Thomas, 69, Timeline, Media, Maps, *NO DISCUSSION* )
Pole Line Road (Source: CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #8)
Disclaimer - I don't know where exactly the photo from West Valley SAR or the one from @sroad was taken. I'm simply illustrating the difference between a trail and a pole road.
Especially considering that Barbra was an experienced hiker.
IMO they went to a smaller rock formation on the way back from the larger one, which followed a smaller trail back to the main trail.
I believe there are more trails then the one they went there on and the pole trail. The person who checked it out got on the wrong trail trying to come back!
Staging area: 34°47'36.79"N 115°36'35.44"W
Main rock formation: 34°47'44.18"N 115°37'1.96"W
Scenic overlook paved parking lot: 34°48'12.84"N 115°36'43.60"W
Perhaps. I was wondering if he had prior knowledge of lie detector tests for some reason and if so, what that reason might be; but if there was any decent lag time between his being let go by the police post-poly, and him doing a stand-up/sit-down with reporters; he could have Googled it.
@dbdb11 could you not persuade someone stateside to share this information with @sroad ?
I don't think the blue circle is where they would have walked, as that is getting off the trail, meaning possibly into spiny vegetation (some of it was dense, some OK to walk cross country, see attached photo of a patch of more dense vegetation and cholla). And if she was wearing little clothing, that would not be a good idea. There were plenty of higher spots with rocks they could have walked to take the picture without having to go cross country. The 5th wheel would have been visible most of the time from west/north of Kelbaker rd, as it sticks out over the vegetation. If she had gone east of the road, that's downhill, so then you would more likely lose sight of the 5th wheel, unless moving to higher ground. I'll attach some of the pics again, so you can see. We had our camper parked off HH dirt road about half a mile east from the turnout and again you see how that sticks out too. The incident command post was also a 5th wheel so gives you a good idea as they have a 5th wheel as well. The SAR folks searched early in the mornings, and then later in the afternoons when I was there. Temperatures right now are similar, upper nineties during the afternoons. So early starts would work fine for people who are somewhat acclimatized to dry and warm desert weather. The last photo shows what I mean when I say you could see the partially white 5th wheel fairly easily from .5 mile away from several angles shown. Now that does assume decent eyes, I don't know whether BT had good eye sight.
Yes, too many possible spots, hence my request for that photo evidence.
Did LE do any searching EAST of the pulloff on Hidden Hill? That riverbed to the east seems to be a higher traffic area than the trail to the west, though there doesn't seem to be any reason to go that direction
Thank you! Very helpful. Beautiful photos too. Its answered one question I had about whether Barbara would be able to see the RV if she came out further down the road (west/north of Kelbaker rd) and I think she would have been able to see it as the road has a higher elevation than the turnout and another about the possible route she may have taken. I think you're correct in that the small crop I highlighted before is unlikely to have been the route they took back.
IMO they may have been making their way back via the wash (see attached), where there is a small outcrop (circled), with several trails leading off.
Yes, they did search east of the turnout as well those last two days I was there. But this was not their primary search focus, as a SAR member told me, this was more about making sure "all bases were covered". That area would be good to include in a drone flight, as there are not many places to hide there, as opposed to west of the turnout and road where they allegedly hiked.
Yeah, maybe he learned about it from a tv show or the movies.
The fact that he used the term Prime Suspect made me think that too.
I think there was both a movie and a tv show by that name. Imo
Could she have made a wrong turn and then ended up on the pole road? Thinking it would lead her back to the RV? Imo
BTW, you can see what look like pretty good sized trees/shrubs in the dry creek bed (so it's been a long time since much water pushed through there - but there's underground water for the shrubbery). It too would provide shade and it would provide a pathway back to the area where RT was (approximately). Barbara knew the area. Could have chosen a different route (after not finding the key) for any number of reasons.
I didn't see them search the creek bed (really sandy/silty, would have had footprints) and LE has not answered my inquiries (of course). It just bugs me that we don't know.
Husband and I just made reservations out that way. He's a bit leery of stopping in Mojave Preserve (given past experiences, it's known for certain kinds of crime, all the close by towns have way more crime than average for California, certainly way more than where we live). However, he is almost as curious as I am to measure some things and get some photos.
I am of course hoping we find Barbara before the end of the year.
@bronbaby I think she's out in the desert someplace. I just don't know if near Kelbaker Road or not and even if found, I think CoD will appear to be natural causes. If she's found close to where RT says he last saw her, then I'm going to give up on suspecting foul play. But if she's further away (even a mile), I'm going to remain really suspicious about what happened.
Searchers are volunteers, they vary in their stamina and training. This was not a traditional grid search for 9 days, although hopefully they did do a grid search for the square mile around where she disappeared (and hopefully more).
Thank you so much for this. Glad to hear you walked the dry wash. The only person who said it was a dry lake bed was a reporter tweeting from the search on the first day. That was also the day that media said the search area was 14 miles further north.
But these inaccuracies remain in the record. Since some of us are contacting locals who might be out in the area for other reasons, and sending out posters about Barbara, it's so good to have this really excellent summary to help guide them.
Especially, thanks for the height on those creosote bushes. Lots to digest and very helpful
I don't make any effort to establish that my husband is with me if I stop at a gas station. Why would anyone do that? To my mind, this was an ordinary stop. Whatever went wrong, it was later.
Coordinates for the staging are: