CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #8

[Butterfly_Rises]

Are there any verified witnesses that actually saw her in the area?

I don't believe anything RT says. " She turned the corner and disappeared" what freaking corner? He is being very deceptive. A 69yr old, in a bikini in scorching hot weather?? No way. I don't believe she ever went hiking.

 

[Stripehaven]

I just don’t expect her to be found in this area. I think she’ll be found elsewhere and possibly appear to have been dumped by a kidnapper.

 

[10ofRods]

Thanks for this @sroad , it is very useful. RTs interview stated that they were on their way back to the truck when he stopped to take another photo. Could this be the small outcrop (see attached, circled in blue) do you think? If so, then I think it more likely that Barbara became lost. @10ofRods - what d you think?

Your point about being able to see the RV, would this be the case even though it was on the other side of the road? Is the turnout lower or higher than the horizon do you think?

Also, do you think that the temperatures are amenable for further searches now? If so, is there anything we can do to organise them?

ETA final question!
ETA the picture

It's possible, of course. I think they spent some time at the "main rock feature." The foliage out there this season was denser than what google shows (judging by SAR and Sroads's pictures) so I still doubt that she walked through that with bare legs.

LE has said they aren't organizing further searches right now (said Dbdb recently). For a good search (and Dbdb has contacted a search company), they need permission from LE (because if it does turn out to be a crime scene, there are protocols to follow). We on websleuths would have a really hard time organizing a search without local contacts and aids (community groups, churches, etc).

 

[10ofRods]

If you belong to any buy, sell, trade groups on FB and they allow you to post it there, that is a good way to reach thousands of people with one post. In the past, I've learned that they generally don't allow you to join those groups unless you live in the area. So, tag you're it. MOO

I'll check! I may be a bit too far away for the Mojave groups. Barstow, Baker, Amboy...but also (obviously) the Arizona communities, Needles...I will see how much geography they allow me from my position.

 

[Stripehaven]

I'll check! I may be a bit too far away for the Mojave groups. Barstow, Baker, Amboy...but also (obviously) the Arizona communities, Needles...I will see how much geography they allow me from my position.

Do you have a local FB “Crime and Community” type group as well?

 

[10ofRods]

Do you have a local FB “Crime and Community” type group as well?

I'm not really local. I just go out there a few times a year (and had family who lived in 29 Palms/Indio). There is no Crime and Community group AFAIK for Mojave Preserve. Mojave Preserve (and its neighbor, Mojave Trails) are uninhabited. The nearby local towns are mostly an hour away. The tiny town of Amboy has a population of 4 according to Wikipedia. It's probably the closest town. The towns that neighbor Amboy (like Bagdad) are either ghost towns or equally small.

Baker has a population of something like 735. When you leave Barstow (much bigger), there are signs warning you that there are no services until Baker, but in fact, you can't depend on services being open or possessing gas or bottled water. It's a crap shoot what will be open in Baker.

Barstow, (further away) has a population of 22,000.

There is no year round visitor center in Mojave Preserve (until rather recently, there was no visitor center at all). None of the campgrounds have attendants. Restrooms are available at Kelso Depot (an uninhabited place).

However, Amboy does have businesses built by people who live elsewhere and they have a couple of community events and groups to organize those, so I'll send the poster and other information to them.

 

[10ofRods]

I don't see a way to post a Missing Person item on FB Marketplace (unless I put it under a random spot, like Vehicles). Anyone know the ToS there?

 

[bronbaby]

thank you for replies, much appreciated xox
is it publicly known (apart from RT) when & where BT was last seen in person and/or spoken to? days or even weeks leading up to her disappearance?
thank you

 

[10ofRods]

thank you for replies, much appreciated xox
is it publicly known (apart from RT) when & where BT was last seen in person and/or spoken to? days or even weeks leading up to her disappearance?
thank you

Our VI has mentioned that the dog kennel people saw Barbara that morning around 8-10 am, and the neighbor captured her getting into the truck that morning around 8:15. She had been speaking with family in Hong Kong about her trip, prior to that day, and told them she'd be out of touch for a few days (during the camping trip).

It sure seems like it started out like a regular day. One kennel staff member told Dbdb that Barbara seemed a little stressed (or something like that). I think she was supposed to fly to Hong Kong on the 23rd. Then, the convenience store person told Dbdb that RT seemed a little "naggy" (irritable).

After that, it's just RT's view on what happened next. Kelbaker/HH is 2 hours from their house, plus time for convenience stop. They should have been there by 11.

Were they out on that walk from 11 am to 2:30 (when RT says he last saw her)? Temps would have been in the 90's when they started out...probably 102/103 or so by 2:30. Did she drink from his gallon of water?

I too have lots of questions for RT (and I know Dbdb has tried to get the answers - so far, no luck).

 

[MsBetsy]

Are there any verified witnesses that actually saw her in the area?

I don't believe anything RT says. " She turned the corner and disappeared" what freaking corner? He is being very deceptive. A 69yr old, in a bikini in scorching hot weather?? No way. I don't believe she ever went hiking.

I think by the corner he meant she made a turn around a large rock or the rock formations.
LE must believe she was there because they stated that they conducted the search according to where Robert last saw her.
The VI has also confirmed that LE has pictures of her there that day.
So the question for me is, what happened to her during the time she was at that location in the desert? Did she get lost or was there some kind of foul play? Imo

 

[bronbaby]

Our VI has mentioned that the dog kennel people saw Barbara that morning around 8-10 am, and the neighbor captured her getting into the truck that morning around 8:15. She had been speaking with family in Hong Kong about her trip, prior to that day, and told them she'd be out of touch for a few days (during the camping trip).

It sure seems like it started out like a regular day. One kennel staff member told Dbdb that Barbara seemed a little stressed (or something like that). I think she was supposed to fly to Hong Kong on the 23rd. Then, the convenience store person told Dbdb that RT seemed a little "naggy" (irritable).

After that, it's just RT's view on what happened next. Kelbaker/HH is 2 hours from their house, plus time for convenience stop. They should have been there by 11.

Were they out on that walk from 11 am to 2:30 (when RT says he last saw her)? Temps would have been in the 90's when they started out...probably 102/103 or so by 2:30. Did she drink from his gallon of water?

I too have lots of questions for RT (and I know Dbdb has tried to get the answers - so far, no luck).

thank you @10ofRods! great to have all that info collated.
I have been trying really hard to keep an open mind on what has happened to BT. Innocent until proven guilty, right? it just doesn't add up.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm trying hard to keep an open mind too, Bronbaby. It is just such a distressing case. There's a fairly large puzzle piece missing. Or several.

Is RT the kind of guy who is too proud to mention he lost his wife in the desert in some other way than described? Maybe he was gone with his camera for longer than 5 minutes? Maybe they separated much further from the RV? Nothing he's said publicly, so far, has inspired my confidence. If we look at Sroads's questions, you'd think that RT would absolutely want the public to know the answers.

 

[lynnwig]

Our VI has mentioned that the dog kennel people saw Barbara that morning around 8-10 am, and the neighbor captured her getting into the truck that morning around 8:15. She had been speaking with family in Hong Kong about her trip, prior to that day, and told them she'd be out of touch for a few days (during the camping trip).

It sure seems like it started out like a regular day. One kennel staff member told Dbdb that Barbara seemed a little stressed (or something like that). I think she was supposed to fly to Hong Kong on the 23rd. Then, the convenience store person told Dbdb that RT seemed a little "naggy" (irritable).

After that, it's just RT's view on what happened next. Kelbaker/HH is 2 hours from their house, plus time for convenience stop. They should have been there by 11.

Were they out on that walk from 11 am to 2:30 (when RT says he last saw her)? Temps would have been in the 90's when they started out...probably 102/103 or so by 2:30. Did she drink from his gallon of water?

I too have lots of questions for RT (and I know Dbdb has tried to get the answers - so far, no luck).

Thanks for recapping the kennel/neighbor info! One thing I'm wondering but haven't seen mentioned: was BT wearing her bikini when she dropped off the dog? That would seem a little odd to me. Did the neighbor note what she was wearing? I still can't get over anyone wearing a bikini in the desert or in public (but I'm from the Frozen North, so what do I know )

 

[Kapua]

My mind is open a crack, but there are a few things that don't add up for me.

If they add up for you, I'm good with that.

I would be willing to believe that BT became lost if it were not for the fact that she was on a clear trail within 1/4 mile and in clear view of the truck/RV, according to RT's story.

I would be willing to believe that she wandered off-trail if the surrounding terrain was at all interesting and not full of cholla cactus.

I would be willing to believe that BT was abducted if she wasn't in the middle of nowhere and within shouting distance of her husband, and if there were signs of a struggle.

I would be willing to have greater confidence in the veracity of RT's story if his polygraph results had not indicated deception, according to RT himself.

Also, I have faith in the great SAR team employed by San Bernardino County. They failed to find BT after nine days of searching with ATVs, trained search dogs, and helicopters. IMHO, she is not there.

We have all been discussing BT's disappearance and dissecting every element of RT's story as if it reflected what actually happened on July 12. IMHO, the narrative is flawed.

MOO

 

[Kittybunny]

My mind is open a crack, but there are a few things that don't add up for me.

If they add up for you, I'm good with that.

I would be willing to believe that BT became lost if it were not for the fact that she was on a clear trail within 1/4 mile and in clear view of the truck/RV, according to RT's story.

I would be willing to believe that she wandered off-trail if the surrounding terrain was at all interesting and not full of cholla cactus.

I would be willing to believe that BT was abducted if she wasn't in the middle of nowhere and within shouting distance of her husband, and if there were signs of a struggle.

I would be willing to have greater confidence in the veracity of RT's story if his polygraph results had not indicated deception, according to RT himself.

Also, I have faith in the great SAR team employed by San Bernardino county. They failed to find BT after nine days of searching with ATV's, trained search dogs, and helicopters. IMHO, she is not there.

We have all been discussing BT's disappearance and dissecting every element of RT's story as if it reflected what actually happened on July 12. IMHO, the narrative is flawed.

MOO

100% This! Yes. The facts and circumstances don't add up to me either.

 

[Tillicum]

My mind is open a crack, but there are a few things that don't add up for me.

If they add up for you, I'm good with that.

I would be willing to believe that BT became lost if it were not for the fact that she was on a clear trail within 1/4 mile and in clear view of the truck/RV, according to RT's story.

I would be willing to believe that she wandered off-trail if the surrounding terrain was at all interesting and not full of cholla cactus.

I would be willing to believe that BT was abducted if she wasn't in the middle of nowhere and within shouting distance of her husband, and if there were signs of a struggle.

I would be willing to have greater confidence in the veracity of RT's story if his polygraph results had not indicated deception, according to RT himself.

Also, I have faith in the great SAR team employed by San Bernardino county. They failed to find BT after nine days of searching with ATV's, trained search dogs, and helicopters. IMHO, she is not there.

We have all been discussing BT's disappearance and dissecting every element of RT's story as if it reflected what actually happened on July 12. IMHO, the narrative is flawed.

MOO

BBM Are cats or dogs ever dumped in the area? I could see Barbara going off the trail if she heard or saw a kitten or puppy in distress. Just something I hadn't considered before.

 

[bronbaby]

RT adamantly stating what his wife was wearing and drinking irked me. it felt scarily close to victim shaming. IMO
just going to throw this out again...
The husband of a woman who disappeared while hiking in the California desert a week ago insisted he is innocent after failing a lie detector test
"I hollered her name and I waved my arms, and I looked around the area and I saw that she wasn't anywhere around. She didn't respond. I got really panicky," he told Inside Edition.

 

[LietKynes]

Thanks for recapping the kennel/neighbor info! One thing I'm wondering but haven't seen mentioned: was BT wearing her bikini when she dropped off the dog? That would seem a little odd to me. Did the neighbor note what she was wearing? I still can't get over anyone wearing a bikini in the desert or in public (but I'm from the Frozen North, so what do I know )

BBM

Welcome to Websluths, @lynnwig !

Good question.
It may have been discussed before -- but according to the WS member who contacted the kennel-- no, she was wearing something else .
Not sure what.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

The attached aerial image is a slightly different view of the overall scene. Given the 'obvious' condition of the west-east trail from the larger rock formation to the Kelbaker Rd/Hidden Hill Rd turnout it does not seem possible that BT could 'get lost' unless she experienced a cognitive issue during her walk toward the truck/rv.

Even if BT had experienced such an episode she likely would not have gotten very far; certainly within the confines of the expansive SAR search area.

The other attached image shows cellular coverage.

Do we know which carrier RT uses?
Was RT carrying his cell phone on his person while he and BT were out and about in the desert? It might be possible that LE has already or at least is in the process of attempting to obtain a cellular track. Hoping....

 

[rosesfromangels]

An interesting read....

https://dronelife.com/2018/09/12/th...up-search-and-rescue-mission-at-amboy-crater/

"...You are hiking the mile-and-a-half trail up to Amboy Crater, an extinct volcano in California’s brutal Mojave Desert during a record-breaking heatwave. The bone-dry air has reached 120 degrees by noon and the black volcanic cinder on the ground beneath you is radiating unforgiving heat. There is no shade. You have run out of water (your body loses more than two quarts each hour you hike in these conditions)...."