Found Deceased CA - Blaze Bernstein, 19, Lake Forest, 2 Jan 2018 #6 *Arrest*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by eekasaur, Jan 5, 2018.

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  1. Brownie01

    Brownie01 Member

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    While not in the OC, I live in a similar upper middle class area and neither of my teens nor their friends carry a knife, to my knowledge. Why not? Well, they'd be in a lot of trouble if they took a knife to school. My son owns a Swiss Army knife from his earlier Boy Scouts years, but it lives on his desk and is basically only used to cut tags off new clothes. The only family member who regularly carries a knife is my 72 year old Dad, who really only ever pulls it out when we need to cut the ribbon off a wrapped gift at family gatherings. :)

    Maybe SW was a regular knife carrier post-high school but you can bet that BB wasn't.
     


  2. LaneGirl

    LaneGirl Well-Known Member

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    Ok I'm not sure what you are saying or trying to convey....

    I too have swatted at something and someone during times of fear, however I have never picked up a knife and stabbed someone not even once let alone 20 times.

    Am I misunderstanding you? Are you saying it's fear based to stab a person 20 times out of fear?
     
  3. Nancy2441

    Nancy2441 Well-Known Member

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    I have yet to hear of one friend or neighbor of SW coming forward to tell anything good about SW. Did he not have ANY friends? Very telling. JMO
     
  4. curiosityscat

    curiosityscat Member

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    Well, the “panic” defense is irrelevant as it is not allowed in CA.

    And Thankfully you aren’t inclined to hurt anyone..

    To be VERY CLEAR, I’m not saying that is or is not what happened..I’m only explaining irrational fear and reaction...

    And Yes!, I am saying it is ‘possible’, is it right? No..is it justified, No..but, Panic is Panic, it isn’t logical or controllable, and you aren’t thinking when it happens...

    Need another example? The reason that 1st line defenders firefighters, police officers, etc. are constantly training how exactly to handle dangerous situations is so that they do NOT panic, but instead, they think clearly, and because they have repeated that specific action in that order so many times, it is called “muscle memory”, they don’t think, they ‘react’, BUT, they ‘react’ how they were trained to react..properly.

    There are also other cases in emergency situations, and national disasters, where people PANIC, and they do not ‘think rationally’, and instead of running away from the danger, in their attempt to ‘get away’, they end up running towards the danger!..it’s one of the reasons that schools hold fire-drills, so students know where to go and what to do..because if they just PANIC they could easily, run into the danger area and fire..again, not logical, no “thought” or intention behind it.
     
  5. LaneGirl

    LaneGirl Well-Known Member

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    Panic from a kiss according to SW himself? Come on really? You really want to compare grave danger to a kiss?

    If you want to compare that is your right. I believe you believe it and I'll give you that.

    I personally can't see how someone who is taller and out weighs someone by almost 50lbs (I think it was stated) is so scared by a kiss that they have to pick up a knife and stab someone 20 times. But you know thats me.
     
  6. kemo

    kemo Well-Known Member

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    I have an idea this is the path defense will go down. There is a lot we don’t know yet but it looks to me that some sort of “ gay panic” defense is the only real chance SW has and it is banned in California. Orange County isn’t as conservative as it used to be and a conviction with a Hate Crime enhancement would mean a very long time in very unpleasant circumstances.

    What I can’t see is any other explanation for why the two of them go together at that time and place unless some sexual encounter was negotiated.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  7. DAnthrplgst

    DAnthrplgst Active Member

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    Reverse the genders. A woman is sitting in a car with a man, under the impression they are just hanging out, catching up, no romantic or sexual intentions are in her mind when suddenly this man kisses her, maybe puts his hand where it shouldn't be, the woman instinctually reacts and punches him or bites him. He misread her intentions and thought he was just giving an innocent kiss.

    To up the emotions a notch: lets say our young lady was a victim of sexual assault in the past, perhaps she was a victim of childhood sexual abuse and for this reason she carries a knife, pepper spray, whatever, and this man kisses her without her consent, gropes her and in a PTSD flashback she is transported back to the time of her rape or she remembers her abuser doing this and she reacts out of fear, grabs her knife and stabs the man.

    Are either reactions logical? No. Our man in either scenario was clueless, he has no intention of harming her but she reacted out of fear, surprise, whatever.

    Was SW the victim of childhood sexual abuse? I dunno but based on the two organizations we know he was a part of it's a distinct possibility, since both the Boy Scouts and the church have a record of shielding molesters.

    Some of us seem to be operating under a black and white notion of what transpired here and we can't do that. This is a very complicated case and it is not black and white.
     
  8. JaneEyre

    JaneEyre Well-Known Member

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    I can't help but laugh at this point. I mean, the more we try to understand each other on this point, the more confusion it causes.

    Personally, I don't know what the hell anyone means on this particular topic anymore.

    Kudos to those still valiantly attempting to figure it out.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  9. DAnthrplgst

    DAnthrplgst Active Member

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    I seriously doubt there is going to be any hate crime enhancement. I don't think this was a hate crime for one and second, from my understanding, it's exceedingly difficult to prove something is a hate crime without pretty clear, unimpeachable evidence. I suspect that's why prosecutors don't seem to go after it as much anymore except in the most obvious cases but even in those they don't seem to seek that enhancement much anymore.

    ETA: Just found this interesting article about hate crime prosecutions with this relevant quote: "In California, there were 837 hate crime incidents in 2015, up 10 percent from the previous year, according to a report from the California Department of Justice. California prosecuted 189 hate crime cases in 2015 (these crimes were not necessarily committed that year). When California issued its 2015 hate crime report, the state confirmed that of those 138 cases with final court rulings, less than half — 59 cases — resulted in hate crime convictions."

    It's from this article by PBS News Hour: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/hate-crimes-difficult-convict
     
  10. JaneEyre

    JaneEyre Well-Known Member

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    Unless SW was a victim of rape, that last bit with PTSD and stabbing just doesn't work out.

    BTW - how many women do we hear about who have been raped who then go on to get all stabby and kill men who want to kiss them in the future?

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  11. LaneGirl

    LaneGirl Well-Known Member

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    I think the #metoo movement is a testament to look at in your seniaro. Many women have come forward with accusations of sexual harassment and so far none of them have picked up a knife and stabbed someone 20 times from a kiss or even worse.

    Have there been women in a physically abusive relationship with a partner that panicked and stabbed/shot or killed their abusive partner yes. In my opinion these are different situations.

    But I will agree with you that this is a complicated case as we have very little facts and nothing is ever black and white, there are always gray areas.
     
  12. DAnthrplgst

    DAnthrplgst Active Member

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    I understanding the point of your entire comment but the bolded portion, I just want to make clear, I'm not referring to sexual harassment in the SW/BB case, I'm referring to sexual assault in my respective scenarios.

    There is another dimension to this that I think may be getting lost (not directing this to you LaneGirl but in general) and that is we are talking about a male. A gay man kissing a straight man, especially if the straight man is insecure in their sexual identity, has a lot more implications for our straight man then it does for the woman in my previous scenarios. A gay man kissing a straight man what doesn't wish to have that sort of interaction can be viewed as an attack on his masculinity. It wasn't that long ago where a gay man kissing a straight man would have gotten that gay man a beating or even worse.

    I think a major problem here is that we simply don't know enough about SW, his upbringing, beliefs and most importantly, what type of family culture he comes from. I do know he is from Tennessee but that in and of itself doesn't mean anything. If he was from a mountain family I could certainly understand his violent reaction, good ol boys tend to react violent to unwanted sexual advances from other men but with his mother being a family therapist I have my doubt that he was a good ol boy in the classic sense of the term.
     
  13. Busylady

    Busylady Well-Known Member

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    I am not saying this is what happened at all so please please no don't accuse me of victim blaming. What if SW and BB meet up before hand BB has assured him that he won't say anything, after the act is over BB makes a comment about just come out people already know anyway. SW freaks out because he has a tremendous fear of being outed, how will his parents, friends etc react. It may not be a rational fear to us, but to him it could be very rational and he felt like if people knew his life would be over and he reacts in that moment. If this were the scenario it doesn't justify or make it ok to murder BB in anyway but I can see fear taking over in this situation.
     
  14. LaneGirl

    LaneGirl Well-Known Member

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    Agree. I think we know he comes from a practicing catholic family, has maybe "hit on" BB according to the affidavit, made videos for a group that is against homosexuality per internet archives, has possibly sent sexts or pics to another guy (not BB) per internet sm.

    So possibly not a straight man, but lets say he was in every since of the word straight and not even questioning his sexuality...beating up a guy that makes a pass yes I can see that, stabbing 20 times, no that says passion/hate or something way more than just hey dude get off me.

    There is something more to this story I think. I keep going back to the fact that BB sent that text in June to friends saying SW made a pass at him and didn't want anyone to know, then by SW own account he went to pick up BB (who left his glasses and wallet in the house). Why would he go? BB was an openly gay guy they had some sort of relationship according to the affidavit and texts. If you don't want to be associated with him why pick him up take him somewhere?

    Edit: #metoo movement includes sexual assault/rape I just used the term harassment

    I don't pretend to have all the answers but something just isn't sitting well with this just being a case of "dude kissed me and I didn't like it" case.
     
  15. LaneGirl

    LaneGirl Well-Known Member

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    This is somewhat close to what I believe. BB had sent a text according to an affidavit in June saying SW "hit on" him and asked him not to tell anyone and supposedly BB told people. SW social media shows he was active in some group that is against homosexuality as well as having religious parents so it's not out of the relm of possibility he didn't want to be "outed" and maybe he was conflicted about his own sexuality.

    Where I differ is that I can't reconcile an unwanted "kiss" with stabbing someone 20 times.

    I can see someone backed into a corner because they don't have the support to come out and/or possibly fighting their own feelings because of lack of support/acceptance of being gay.

    It's not victim blaming, it's not a "kiss" that set him off, it's his lack of support/acceptance and perhaps feelings of society norms that homosexuality is wrong/bad/sin that sent him in a rage? idk
     
  16. DAnthrplgst

    DAnthrplgst Active Member

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    Totally agree. There is A LOT more to this and I think you're right about the stabbing being about anger/passion. IIRC, I seem to recall reading more then once that stabbing is more a crime of passion since it requires being up close and personal.
     
  17. Busylady

    Busylady Well-Known Member

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    Oh I agree it was much more than an unwanted kiss. I am wondering if the unwanted kiss comment was SW way of trying to keep the image up that he was not homosexual to his family and the public. I think he is a very emotionally tormented young man. JMO
     
  18. Seajay

    Seajay Never pass up an opportunity to pee.

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    If indeed it turns out that SW is gay, it's going to be hard to prove it a hate crime. Revenge for being outed, yes, but hate crime if they were both gay, I don't see it. JMO

    It would be in SW's favor to go with being gay if a hate crime is tacked in to his charges, IMO
     
  19. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    We've had to remove 30+ OT or bickering posts just in the last couple of hours.

    If you want to discuss the JA case, do it in the JA threads, not here.

    If you want to bicker and argue, do it somewhere else, not here.

    Thanks.
     
  20. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Ok, I am going to shut down Blaze's thread for the night.

    Everyone take a break and come back tomorrow with your hearts full of love for your fellow poster and
    with a better understanding of our rules.

    https://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
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