CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 4

[Montjoy]

From the timeline thread --
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA Bob Harrod, Time Line and Media Links only
--
• Time? – SIL JM arrived at Home Depot. (Note: Unknown which Home Depot JM went to. There is a Home Depot at 601 S Placentia Ave, Fullerton, CA 92831-5199. Distance is only 2.7 miles from Bob’s address in Placentia, about a 6-minute drive. There is another Home Depot located at 2455 E Imperial Hwy, Brea, CA 92821-6114. Distance from Bob’s address in Placentia is 2.8 miles, about a 7-minute drive.)
• Time? – The housekeeper arrived at Bob’s house. The door was locked and nobody answered (rumor/hearsay she arrived at ~3PM)
• 3:04PM – SIL JM paid for purchases at Home Depot (time stamp of purchase receipt). It has not been made public what the purchase was
• 3:30PM – SIL JM arrived back at Bob’s house from Home Depot, and the housekeeper was sitting on the porch, waiting to be let in. She told SIL JM the door was locked and nobody was answering, and that Bob might be taking a nap. SIL JM then went into the house to check, and Bob was not there. SIL JM told the housekeeper his father-in-law might have gone to visit a neighbor
• Time? – The housekeeper cleaned and left the house
• 6:00PM – SIL JM left the house and headed home to Running Springs
---

Nothing here suggests to me that the SiL was expected to let the housecleaner in.

 

[Cubby]

BBM
Could you please point out the TOS rule that states qualifications for a verified source? All verified sources on other threads have given posters the opportunity of asking questions and here it seems we have to take the poster for their word without links or documentation.

A copied post from - Tricia - regarding WS verification is posted within the threads for Bob.

If you can't find it send me a pm and I will make sure someone can find the post for you.

hth

 

[Angelo]

Bob had his keys and wallet..Why would the SIL not think he couldn't get into the house. Bob also would leave with his friends on many occasions. Maybe the SIL thought he was just off having lunch with friends again! After all he was a grown man and sounded like he was set in his ways. I would get mad if someone questioned me everytime I was going out the door..right?

Dolly.......How do we know Mr. Harrod would leave with his friends on many occasions?


The daughters had no problem checking up on who Mr. Harrod gave money to. The daughters also called Social Services twice on their father's friend, the hairdresser.

Suddenly, in a 30 minute window, Mr. Harrod vamishes and nobody thinks to check on him?

 

[Angelo]

The way I see it is..The SIL was there to let the cleaning lady in when he got back from errands..The cleaning lady was there..Bob was missing with whomever was the one that took him..I just see that timelines as being so small..The only one that had the biggest timeline is the one that drove off with Bob.

The SIL was not there to let the housekeeper in. In fact, I bet he was surprised to see the housekeeper on the front porch.

SIL told the housekeeper he thought Mr. Harrod was taking a nap.

Why would Mr. Harrod go anywhere with anyone when he was expecting the arrival of the housekeeper? Add to that, according to the SIL, Mr. Harrod was also expecting the SIL to return from Home Depot.

 

[Angelo]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but was it ever explained why the SiL left Bob's place at all, when returning from Home Depot and finding him unexpectedly missing? Wouldn't Bob have said something to either his SiL or whatever daughters he spoke with on the phone if he had some sort of planned excursion? And if he left, with his father already missing under mysterious circumstances, would they not want a family member around his place, to ensure he could at least get in?

Agree. Let's not forget that, according to daughter P, SIL says he saw mysterious goings on around Mr. Harrod's house that day. Yet, SIL just leaves without looking for Mr. Harrod.


"There was a report that my BIL saw the type of car that the POI drives go by my Dad's house very slowly and then pull over on the wrong side of the street.

"Heard from BIL that a car matching the description of hers was seen earlier that morning."

Daughter P posted the above on a forum last year. Again, look at her wording, "there was a report." Sounds like they were setting someone up.

 

[Angelo]

On Aug 22, 2009, RB posted, "Did someone say polygraph again? Me first, me first, I wanna do it!"

The thread was closed near the end of Nov, 2009. I believe if people were asked to take polygraphs, it was near the end of the year. I don't believe anyone asked them about it when they started posting again in June of this year on IS.

FH said to reporter included in Feb 2010 article that late last year police were giving polygraph tests to family members and those close to Bob Harrod. Detective Loomis confirmed that police were using a lie-detector test, but would not disclose publicly the results or to whom the tests were being administered.

CA Exile posted this on July 24, 2010:
I just talked to Fontelle on the phone. She is holding up considering the circumstances. She is still living in Bob's house as is her right. She and Bob's daughters are still at war. They want her out and she wants her rights as a widow. Also, there is a lot of suspicion about the case. No proof, but the daughters have apparently been uncooperative. There could be several reasons for this. They may just be tired and want to get on with their lives. Or, something worse. Some took lie detector tests, some did not. They are trying to settle his estate and trusts. Hopefully, all of this can go to court and decisions can be made. Until then, no one will be at peace.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/harrod-60921-ocprint-bob-police.html
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009

I just want to add RB's next line:

"I don't think PPD has the resources but would be glad to see EVERYBODY have a polygraph! Yes indeed!"

 

[Angelo]

I think she was at the house from the time the police arrived for the well being check until Fontelle arrived. That left a whole heck of a lot of time to clean up any forensic evidence. A lot of time to 'rearrange". It doesn't take that long to change bed linens........

I'm sure Fontelle, the cleaning lady and likely friends and neighbors who had visited Bob or been in the home recently were interviewed by LE regarding any noticable "rearranging".

Interesting, 28 hours prior to 1:50pm Tuesday the 28th coincides with that 10:00 am phone call.
jmo

BBM

Daughter J would have been able to check Mr. Harrod's caller ID, answering machine, voice mail (if he had them), when she went DTH in the middle of the night.

J would be able to tell how many people called her father that day and if messages were left. J would be able to tell when her father stopped answering the phone.

Possibly there was a message left shortly after 10 am, hence the 28 hour post.

 

[believe09]

I am not accusing, DPM-just round robining if that makes any sense. But you have to acknowledge, as a logical person, that when one of the daughter's posts she made a call (between 11AM and 12PM) and there is print media containing an LE source that indicates she didnt, it falls into the "huh" category.

Tell me about your outreach if you can and I can make sure I do not hit your same sources unless you would like help? You know I admire you-you can do it via PM if you would like to keep it off the board for now...

 

[believe09]

Thanks for reaching out to CA Exile!!! We understand completely if he is a little burned out by all of this...even if he would rather just give benign information regarding Bob's habits and contact with the Mason's in Monrovia as well as Placentia, we would be so grateful. It always helps to flesh out the man...

Peace to all and thanks to everyone who continues to slog through all of this.

 

[Angelo]

On August 11, 2009 daughter R posted on the IS forum:

The "possible" crime scene and it's contents have constantly been at risk, and that must change. Proposed conservators and our attorney are increasingly concerned.

R is saying that because Fontelle is staying in the house, the possible crime scene is at risk. Yet we know that SIL and housekeeper were in the house after Mr. Harrod disappeared. Additionally daughter J went to the house after her father disappeared and changed the linens. We know that all three daughters and the grandson were at the house before Fontelle's arrival. Strange that R is so worried about the possible crime scene now.

On August 15, 2009 daughter J was posted on a different forum, ROTW:

We still have not heard any news yet. One thing we know is the my dad's home has been ruled out as a crime scene. Our next concern is who picked him up?

Was the house ruled out as a crime scene? By posting that the house was ruled out as a crime scene, J is also implying that her husband did not have anything to do with her father's disappearance. ROTW is a local forum. Days before on ROTW there was talk on the forum that the SIL was being looked at by the PPD. Could this be why J posted that the house was ruled out as a crime scene?

 

[Montjoy]

Thanks, I guess, for those two revolting quotations. The crime scene was contaminated hours before it was discovered by housecleaning, 'errands', 're-arranging' and 'changing of linens'. What would that have to do with the conservators or their attorneys at all? Would those contents not be estate rather than trust? Of course, the risk is a loss of access to any of their father's possessions, any contents, that they hadn't yet removed. Oh, the first quotation included the only honest bit of the bunch -- "Proposed conservators and our attorney are increasingly concerned." The passivity of the sentence obscures agency here -- "I'm worried that I won't get as much stuff."

The second passage was just more garbage. First, she doesn't know anything, then in the next sentences -- 'oh yeah, we are cleared, and someone else must have done it'. I almost think that by virtue of her saying this, none of it was true -- it was what she wanted people to believe. (Perhaps, of course, it is what the police wanted them to believe, too, but even then, they wouldn't have had any real concern for who "picked him up".)

There are a few themes that reverberate in the daughters' messages. They are:
1) Give us our father's possessions
2) We didn't do it, and LE agrees
3) Those other guys did it
4) We are the victims
5) People are stealing from us, trying to steal from us, stealing from Dad
6) Dad was bad, of unsound mind, mean
7) Other sources are misinforming you

These themes are combined in countless ways. Have I missed any of the key ones? How different they sound from the themes you hear from others who have missing loved ones. And so much energy spent on them, rather than on productive lines of discussion and effort aimed at expanding awareness and utilizing resources to find Bob.

 

[suzyq211]

How different they sound from the themes you hear from others who have missing loved ones. And so much energy spent on them, rather than on productive lines of discussion and effort aimed at expanding awareness and utilizing resources to find Bob.

<respectfully snipped>

YES!!!

 

[Angelo]

Daughter R- August 11, 2009, IS: The "possible" crime scene and it's contents have constantly been at risk, and that must change. Proposed conservators and our attorney are increasingly concerned.

Daughter P- August 12, 2009, IS: PPD has never indicated that the family home is a "crime scene", but felt if they did, that it would have been closed off to all even "F".

Daughter J- August 15, 2009, ROTW: We still have not heard any news yet. One thing we know is the my dad's home has been ruled out as a crime scene. Our next concern is who picked him up?

 

[cloudajo]

Daughter R- August 11, 2009, IS: The "possible" crime scene and it's contents have constantly been at risk, and that must change. Proposed conservators and our attorney are increasingly concerned.

Daughter P- August 12, 2009, IS: PPD has never indicated that the family home is a "crime scene", but felt if they did, that it would have been closed off to all even "F".

Daughter J- August 15, 2009, ROTW: We still have not heard any news yet. One thing we know is the my dad's home has been ruled out as a crime scene. Our next concern is who picked him up?

Great post. It hit me like a ton of bricks.

 

[cloudajo]

Thanks, I guess, for those two revolting quotations. The crime scene was contaminated hours before it was discovered by housecleaning, 'errands', 're-arranging' and 'changing of linens'. What would that have to do with the conservators or their attorneys at all? Would those contents not be estate rather than trust? Of course, the risk is a loss of access to any of their father's possessions, any contents, that they hadn't yet removed. Oh, the first quotation included the only honest bit of the bunch -- "Proposed conservators and our attorney are increasingly concerned." The passivity of the sentence obscures agency here -- "I'm worried that I won't get as much stuff."

The second passage was just more garbage. First, she doesn't know anything, then in the next sentences -- 'oh yeah, we are cleared, and someone else must have done it'. I almost think that by virtue of her saying this, none of it was true -- it was what she wanted people to believe. (Perhaps, of course, it is what the police wanted them to believe, too, but even then, they wouldn't have had any real concern for who "picked him up".)

There are a few themes that reverberate in the daughters' messages. They are:
1) Give us our father's possessions
2) We didn't do it, and LE agrees
3) Those other guys did it
4) We are the victims
5) People are stealing from us, trying to steal from us, stealing from Dad
6) Dad was bad, of unsound mind, mean
7) Other sources are misinforming you

These themes are combined in countless ways. Have I missed any of the key ones? How different they sound from the themes you hear from others who have missing loved ones. And so much energy spent on them, rather than on productive lines of discussion and effort aimed at expanding awareness and utilizing resources to find Bob.

Excellent. If I may add a few:

• Anyone who questions us is deceitful, evil, mis-informed.
• We are the “real” family. F is not.
• We and our P.I. are working closely with the PPD. We cannot share those details for obvious reasons and/or because it may jeopardize the investigation. But let me tell you on the world wide web these other 50 things about how bad our father was.
• The cold feet theory label came directly from the PPD - not us. None of our family members ever believed that our father would walk away. So please disregard all of our posts we made in the past year implying that he walked away.

 

[cloudajo]

Cubby or Believe:

Can you refresh our memories - approximately how long might it take to get Bob's DNA entered into CODIS and to determine if his DNA matches the DNA of the partial skeletal remains found in Lucerne Valley?

 

[Montjoy]

[*]The cold feet theory label came directly from the PPD - not us. None of our family members ever believed that our father would walk away. So please disregard all of our posts we made in the past year implying that he walked away.

E.g., a daughter on IS, 6 Aug 09 -- "Who really knows -- I guess he could have become leary that this time he bit off more than he could chew and did it too quickly."

 

[Cubby]

Cubby or Believe:

Can you refresh our memories - approximately how long might it take to get Bob's DNA entered into CODIS and to determine if his DNA matches the DNA of the partial skeletal remains found in Lucerne Valley?

4 months or more... depending on where they are in the process. We don't currently know where they (LE) is in the process with collecting the sample for missing persons -which is different than processing DNA for a crime scene.

hth

 

[believe09]

I know this is an awkward place to put this, but I just want to remind anyone who is posting from inside of this case, defined as a local, family members, friends of a case player, interested parties, witnesses etc: WS has a process in place for verifying you in order to protect our sleuthers. Let's face it, anyone can sign onto the WWW and claim to be someone else...people often do. If you fall into the above category, please contact the owner of WS, Tricia Griffith at tgrif@xmission.com.

DPM has come forward with her location, and CA Exile is the only other player who has been verified and is posting on behalf of Bob Harrod.

TIA!!!

 

[believe09]

I think we have a pretty good handle on the inconcistencies at this point, does everyone else feel that way? I have to say the whole "no phone calls after 10AM" statement by a well sourced journalist vs the statement by a daughter that she spoke to her father between 11AM and 12PM to be confusing.

At the minimum we need to bring a fresh onslaught of attention and resources to Placentia so that they are better able to unravel the mystery surrounding Bob's disappearance-I can't help but believe he was be so very grieved to see Fontelle and his daughter's so at odds with each other...JMVHO.