CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

Status
Not open for further replies.
Okay then. Correct me if I am wrong. The coroner is giving the impression that her body was somewhere else for two weeks and was discovered shortly after being placed
in the tank, ergo there really were not two weeks of people using putrified water as the media has sensationalized and portrayed to be the case? That makes sense.
I was going off about that aspect last night of not being at all credible.
But, still, it would be hard to hide a body for two weeks in a hotel regardless.
 
She's a typical young person that doesn't know who she is yet. This was the point of the traveling.

You know how some people from America "find themselves" from traveling though Europe? Well, some people from other countries do the exact same thing here in America. (this is why I'm always super awesome to anyone with an accent...especially if they're cute).

The farm thing, I believe, was just a thing she heard about that she was excited about at that time. I really doubt there's any connection to that.

Maybe. But, then I am curious as to why she was in contact with her family and friends on a daily basis up until a certain date, and then these people also express surprise and no knowledge of why she was even in LA.
Granted, on a cellphone you can tell them you are anywhere.
Were they under the impression that's why she went? To see about a job of some sort or just an impromtu vacation?
 
Okay then. Correct me if I am wrong. The coroner is giving the impression that her body was somewhere else for two weeks and was discovered shortly after being placed
in the tank, ergo there really were not two weeks of people using putrified water as the media has sensationalized and portrayed to be the case? That makes sense.
I was going off about that aspect last night of not being at all credible.
But, still, it would be hard to hide a body for two weeks in a hotel regardless.

Consider that they brought dead-sniffing dogs through that whole place, and found nothing. Not even on the roof.

That's why they assume there was no body.

The body was in the tank, but she was alive going in, so between the tank, the cold water, and the height, the dogs never picked up on her.

And then in the middle of the month, the temperature rose. And then was when everyone started saying something was wrong.

Starting the morning before she was reported missing, the plumbing suffered a significant change, and was backed up. The blackish water didn't start till the middle of the month, the same time the temperature rose.
 
I'm sort of surprised the photographers that got the footage of the inside of the tank were able to do so. Logic would seem to be that management would increase security on the upper levels / rooftop due to the obvious curiosity factor if nothing else. I'm definitely grateful that they were able to get those shots since U.S. media has been lackluster in covering this, but another part of me was shocked someone was able to pull that off less than a week later.

and multiple people were able to get onto the rooftop with no security/alarm and no problem whatsoever.
 
Again anansie:

:yourock:

Thanks so much for the valuable translation!
It all makes perfect sense to me. :twocents:
 
Maybe. But, then I am curious as to why she was in contact with her family and friends on a daily basis up until a certain date, and then these people also express surprise and no knowledge of why she was even in LA.
Granted, on a cellphone you can tell them you are anywhere.
Were they under the impression that's why she went? To see about a job of some sort or just an impromtu vacation?

I assume because she was failing college, her parents allowed her to travel America to discover herself.

She was a good girl from a good home.
 
Okay then. Correct me if I am wrong. The coroner is giving the impression that her body was somewhere else for two weeks and was discovered shortly after being placed
in the tank, ergo there really were not two weeks of people using putrified water as the media has sensationalized and portrayed to be the case? That makes sense.
I was going off about that aspect last night of not being at all credible.
But, still, it would be hard to hide a body for two weeks in a hotel regardless.

In the translation it just states "earlier". 2 weeks is an assumption IMO.
 
Thanks to four_seasons who directed me to that post :)

Keep me updated if you do get anything else you want to translate. I'll try my best.

Thank you so much for translating those.
I'll send you other stuff if i find them.
 
Consider that they brought dead-sniffing dogs through that whole place, and found nothing. Not even on the roof.

That's why they assume there was no body.

The body was in the tank, but she was alive going in, so between the tank, the cold water, and the height, the dogs never picked up on her.

And then in the middle of the month, the temperature rose. And then was when everyone started saying something was wrong.

Starting the morning before she was reported missing, the plumbing suffered a significant change, and was backed up. The blackish water didn't start till the middle of the month, the same time the temperature rose.

I see. I bolded your response.

Alive going in but not likely she drowned?
I keep saying however yucky it may be to spell out here, but trust me, if a cadaver were in your water supply the color of the water and the water pressure would be NOTHING beside the smell of the water and it's viscosity change!! Yet, I've not read any of the guests complained about these two things.

Very odd and confusing. Also I'll repeat, that once discovered that merely the FD is called for it's removal!! Good grief. I don't get why the police supposedly weren't contacted and no yellow tape up in any photos nor video scenes of cops and ambulances on the media either.
Just a bunch of firemen everywhere. Is it just me who thinks this is strange?
 
Okay then. Correct me if I am wrong. The coroner is giving the impression that her body was somewhere else for two weeks and was discovered shortly after being placed
in the tank, ergo there really were not two weeks of people using putrified water as the media has sensationalized and portrayed to be the case? That makes sense.
I was going off about that aspect last night of not being at all credible.
But, still, it would be hard to hide a body for two weeks in a hotel regardless.

Good Find!

It would be hard for someone to keep Elisa in their room after killing her, since hotel's have housekeeping daily, I just don't think some guest, long term or not would do this

I do think one option is this was a murder by either a hotel employee from the Stay or Cecil...and was'nt there a Maintanence office/room on the 14th or 15th floor?

If Elisa was placed in the cistern tank long after murdered, the employee could've hid her in this Maintenance room and likely knew it's probably a room hardly ever opened or used

Just guessing folks

This poor girl, I pray for her family
 
Is it possible for to have a thread set up with the pictures/videos from the different "investigators" and also the translations? as these are things that are not widely available in English and might be hard to find for others looking for information.

All the translation and valuable pictures/videos are been buried in between the posts and are hard to find.

Anansie and the others took a lot of time translating those valuable information and I think it should be made easier to find rather than going through pages of posts to find them.
 
I see. I bolded your response.

Alive going in but not likely she drowned?
I keep saying however yucky it may be to spell out here, but trust me, if a cadaver were in your water supply the color of the water and the water pressure would be NOTHING beside the smell of the water and it's viscosity change!! Yet, I've not read any of the guests complained about these two things.

Very odd and confusing. Also I'll repeat, that once discovered that merely the FD is called for it's removal!! Good grief. I don't get why the police supposedly weren't contacted and no yellow tape up in any photos nor video scenes of cops and ambulances on the media either.
Just a bunch of firemen everywhere. Is it just me who thinks this is strange?
I agree. What bothers me is that the police were called at 10:30 AM, but reportedly, no official arrived until 1:30. What's going on here?
 
I'm sorry. May I express my shame in this? This young, sweet girl came to America to find herself, and she ends up in a water-tank. This, to me, is simply...I refuse to accept this.

This is outrageous. This never should have happened.

I am so shamed to think that someone trusted their youth coming here, and we stuck her in a water-tank to die. I can't imagine the horror she felt. Or maybe I'm too scared to.

Thank you all for having me here. It's really helping me, and I really do appreciate all of you.
 
You said it would be easy to find out, and I was pointing out that it is not that easy to make that determination. Whether it was broken or not would have to be supported by other indicators.

You're right, "easy" was indeed not the correct adjective here.
 
I'm sorry. May I express my shame in this? This young, sweet girl came to America to find herself, and she ends up in a water-tank. This, to me, is simply...I refuse to accept this.

This is outrageous. This never should have happened.

I am so shamed to think that someone trusted their youth coming here, and we stuck her in a water-tank to die. I can't imagine the horror she felt. Or maybe I'm too scared to.

Thank you all for having me here. It's really helping me, and I really do appreciate all of you.
ITA on all points. She was just a 21 year old young lady, finding herself in a big city. She seems bright and friendly. Naive maybe, but weren't we all at 21?
My hope is that if this was a homicide, they catch her killer. I am hoping for justice.
 
My translation of a post on Chinese forum http://forum6.hkgolden.com/view.aspx?type=CA&message=4284760

A little background about me. I am living in San Francisco. My older sister is a reporter for KTSF 26. The last character of her full name is "玉". Those who watch the Chinese TV channel in San Francisco will know her. Please forgive me for not being able to disclose her full name or provide a picture of her here.

Because I had migrated here last year, I am currently living at her place. Today she came home from work and told me she had received a new assignment - reporting on the Elisa Lam case. When I heard this, my ears perked up! I've been following this case but have not really felt really drawn to it because it's quite a distance from where I live to LA. But now LA feels much closer to me because of her new assignment.

Someone asked here on the forums before - why hasn't there been more new information about the case disclosed via news channels?

My sister said it's because this case involves many countries. This dead girl is Canadian, she's also Chinese, and she went missing and was later found dead in North America. This attracted the attention of not just these 3 countries involved, but also worldwide (including Interpol). The LAPD thus considers this type of case to be of vast and potential influence that will affect people far beyond national borders. Since they have not finished their investigation, they have to remain silent to the public until their investigation is complete.

A telephone call was made to LA's County Coroner's Office. The Coroner did not refuse the request to speak on the phone, and instead, took his time to explain what level of progress they were at regarding the examination of Elisa Lam's body, and what other procedures they will be conducting after this stage is finished. First, it has to made clear that there were absolutely NO signs of trauma or injury on Elisa's body. And when Elisa's body was found, she was fully naked. So far, the medical examinations on her have ruled out any possibility of her death being the result of blunt-force trauma.

Some netizens have asked : is the medical examination of Elisa's body complete?
No the medical examination is not complete. Toxicology reports will take 6 to 8 weeks to finish. This has already been reported in news media and it is not a lie. Toxicology reports do take 6 to 8 weeks to complete.

The toxicology results will complete the picture of how Elisa Lam died, for example, whether she really died of drowning, or if she was strangled to death before her body was placed in the tank, etc. The toxicology results will also specify if she had used any drugs or had been drugged before her death.

Since my older sister is a reporter, she was very keen with her questioning, so a lot of information was obtained from the Coroner this way. In addition, the Coroner affirmed the suspicions that various news media and the general public held. He said that after Elisa died, her body had been hidden/stashed away somewhere, before being disposed of in the tank later.

The LAPD currently possess some knowledge of the likely scenarios in which Elisa met with her death, for instance, whether she was murdered or whether she committed suicide, and the reasons for what happened. The police have in fact already zoned in on who the possible murderer may be. But their investigations are not yet finished. In America the police are not supposed to arrest someone until they have collected sufficient evidence against the perpetrator. So right now, all the police can do is to keep the public informed in a conservative manner rather than reveal specifically who or what they are after.

The possibility of the murderer being hotel staff is real. The staff at this hotel not only hold the keys to all the individual guest rooms, they also hold the key to unlock the alarmed door that leads to the rooftop. This set of keys are believed to be kept in a bunch at the hotel, and several staff members at the hotel are allowed use of this bunch of keys.

The Coroner said that at the moment, Elisa's body is held in a morgue. It will not be released to her family until the medical examination is finally completed.

A netizen asked if Elisa's body was definitely wound and trauma free. The Coroner affirmed this. The Coroner also said that Elisa's body was in a young, fit and healthy state before she died. It showed no signs of having long-term drug use or poisoning.

There are reporters from LA and Vancouver covering this story. My sister actually didn't have to cover this, but all the reporters are fighting for the chance to do this story. Its madness. Anyway, everyone is wondering if I was going to reveal any breaking news stories on here. Well I am going to be honest. There is no breaking news story. Think about it. No major news stations from around the world have received any breaking news story about this case as yet. So why would a small Chinese news station be any different? All I can tell you is what my older sister has told me, and I can confirm that the source of this information is legit and reliable. You don't have to read this. Look away if you are not interested.

Someone asked and I am replying to this. Elisa definitely did not die inside the water tank, because the way her body was found and the time and place do not make sense with a simple case of death by drowning. In other words, the water tank is plainly not the first crime scene. In addition, there have been no wounds found and no trace of another person's bodily fluids left behind in her lower regions.

My sister reiterated that after looking at all the information collected in this case, it is very likely that the murderer is one of the hotel staff. This is not just any old hearsay or rumour. The only people who have free access to Elisa's room and the rooftop stairs are the hotel staff.

Elisa may have been a psychology student in University, but several of her University coursemates have confirmed that her mental capacity definitely seemed normal and she had never displayed any semblance of mental illness. In addition, they can attest to the fact that she was a lovable girl that everybody took a liking to, so to posit that she could be ill enough mentally to want to kill herself is a bunch of nonsense.

Someone asked if the above information I provided is true and correct. I can affirm that everything I've said above is information that my sister had told me, and she obtained that information straight from the Coroner's mouth. She wouldn't dare tell anyone all this if it were not true.



Thank you for this, everyone appreciates your help

As a former Hyatt Hotel manager, I feel strongly, too, that this was more likely committed by either a Stay or Cecil hotel employee with access to the Master Keys and Freedom to walk the hotel at will

A couple things:

- Employees who have the daily Master Keys need to sign off on a clipboard at the Front Desk..and I'm assuming most hotels have at least 2 Master key sets

At night, usually security and the MOD/Manager on Duty have the Master key sets

- If I'm LA LE I'm looking at disgruntled employees & the work schedules of the employees who worked during the time Elisa stayed there and also any video footage from the lobby/front desk area or hallways

This would possibly show Elisa coming in alone or with someone or catch people who talked to her

In a few weeks LE should have a full autopsy report with their beliefs and findings...let's hope we catch this perp, because I feel strongly she was killed, this was no accidental drowning or accident at all
 
If Elisa wrote both sets of graffiti the night she committed suicide in an 'alter' personality, then she may have made the error of dating it 2012. (If she wrote it in her 'little girl' alter, it could be that she hadn't accessed that alter since 2012, hence 'little Elisa' thought it was still 2012. 2012 coincidentally had a lot of flooding/doomsday significance to it due to films like '2012', and all of the other 'end of the world' hype, so the year 2012 could have contained traumatic triggers for Elisa's child alter)

If she didn't write any of the graffiti, she may have been taken up on the roof by some new friends she met the first night she arrived there, spotted the graffiti and had someone explain to her what it meant in English.

This experience, plus that of seeing the water tank so similar to Dark Water, may have been the catalyst for both her memories of the film and for her 'ghost sightings' on the final night of her life there. She might have taken the latin phrase as an omen or something that she felt summed up her feelings about adulthood.

two_thousand_twelve_ver3.jpg


If she was on some level conscious of turning 21 in 2012, then that could have played a part in her emotional upheaval as well, in that for many people the age of 21 is like the 'final deadline' for having to leave home. For many, the end of high school at 18 is time to fly the coop, while for others the very latest is age 21. For a lot of traditional cultures, the ideal is to leave one family to start another, and make the smooth transition from living at home to getting married. So maybe Elisa had felt herself under intense pressure to find a husband in order to leave home, and finally left Canada in shame at not having the ideal transition happen. A lot of depressed people actually feel OLD even at 21, should they not achieve all of the idyllic goals of youth ie. license and hot car at 16, hot sex life through high school, popularity, perfect high school grades, successful move onto college, marriage to that perfect teen sweetheart by 21, etc. etc. etc.

For some , its just too much to cope with when so many of those things just don't happen.

They are bombarded through popular culture that anything less is COMPLETE FAILURE, abject misery, confirmation of one's status as a reject , a loser, etc. They fall into a pattern of sexual and social dysfunction, isolation, insomnia, despondence, bitterness and self-abuse.

I read through your 2 long posts and do find them interesting. But there are 2 segments of the video which you had not covered. How would your theory explain them? :

1. Her repeated pressing (4 times) of the same row of elevator buttons in the same sequence.

2. At 1:58 mark of the video when she turned her face towards the right and smiled, and her splayed right hand did a stroke-like motion 4 times towards the elevator.

To me, these are 2 very significant parts of the video that most theories presented here ignored or failed to give a satisfactory meaning.

Thanks.
 
May I quote my thoughts on how the killer might have gotten her out of the hotel?

Another idea that just came across my mind:

What if she was murdered in the hotel (for whatever reason, maybe she has witnesses something, she shouldn't have) , but as it was too risky to hide her inside the hotel (the police could have very well checked every room), the killer(s) decided to temporary hide here somewhere else (maybe in a car or even at home).

I don't think it is that difficult, to pack a body into a big enough suitcase, also it doesn't attract unneeded attention (who would suspect it in a hotel, as it is totally common?). This would also explain why the search dogs didn't find a track, if she was brought there when the police was already done with the roof.

I'm still not sure whether there are two killers (maybe one of the hotel's employees, as it was necessary to turn off the alarm, the roof was secured with) or only one (the more I think about it, the less likely it gets), it's hard to imagine one person alone being able to carry her body up to the cistern.

Does anyone know whether there is a security camera inside the lobby?

It seems too risky to hide a body somewhere inside the hotel, when it's foreseeable that the police and some well trained search dogs are going to search for her.
 
Someone asked and I am replying to this. Elisa definitely did not die inside the water tank, because the way her body was found and the time and place do not make sense with a simple case of death by drowning. In other words, the water tank is plainly not the first crime scene. In addition, there have been no wounds found and no trace of another person's bodily fluids left behind in her lower regions.

This is the part I find interesting. Would they be able to find any fluids left behind if someone had sexually assaulted her? Maybe the perp used a condom and left no DNA evidence behind. Also, where are her clothes and belongings?

The water tank may not be where she died, but the rooftop could have been.
 
I see. I bolded your response.

Alive going in but not likely she drowned?
I keep saying however yucky it may be to spell out here, but trust me, if a cadaver were in your water supply the color of the water and the water pressure would be NOTHING beside the smell of the water and it's viscosity change!! Yet, I've not read any of the guests complained about these two things.

Very odd and confusing. Also I'll repeat, that once discovered that merely the FD is called for it's removal!! Good grief. I don't get why the police supposedly weren't contacted and no yellow tape up in any photos nor video scenes of cops and ambulances on the media either.
Just a bunch of firemen everywhere. Is it just me who thinks this is strange?

Please consider she died of hypothermia and the cold water slowed her decay process.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
199
Guests online
969
Total visitors
1,168

Forum statistics

Threads
591,803
Messages
17,959,170
Members
228,609
Latest member
Witchee
Back
Top