CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4

[kingsway]

May I quote my thoughts on how the killer might have got her out of the hotel?



It seems too risky to hide a body somewhere inside the hotel, when it's foreseeable that the police and some well trained search dogs are going to search for her.

Not to mention the smell would eventually give away the hiding spot. At least the water tank would dissolve her slowly - no one complained about the taste of the water, just the pressure.

 

[FutzBucket]

ITA on all points. She was just a 21 year old young lady, finding herself in a big city. She seems bright and friendly. Naive maybe, but weren't we all at 21?
My hope is that if this was a homicide, they catch her killer. I am hoping for justice.

I highly suspect the person responsible is mentally ill, so I'll be happy if this person gets placed in a hospital that takes him completely out of society while giving him the help he needs.

And I hope we finally see that we need to attend to the mentally ill in America.

 

[Qrious]

I read the Chinese article too. I seriously doubt it's credibility because why would a pathologist or toxicologist be telling so much unpublished information to a single reporter, and especially when he also talked about police works that are not his department.

 

[catatonia]

no one complained about the taste of the water, just the pressure.

Yesterday Mrs Baugh, a piano teacher, said: "The water did have a very funny, disgusting taste. We never thought anything of it. We thought it was just the way it was here."

Source: http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/...er/story-e6frfq80-1226583533946#ixzz2MCy06ta4


I'm wondering whether some sensation-seeking reporter may have pushed them to say something like this.

 

[Qrious]

My translation of a post on Chinese forum http://forum6.hkgolden.com/view.aspx?type=CA&message=4284760

A little background about me. I am living in San Francisco. My older sister is a reporter for KTSF 26. The last character of her full name is "玉". Those who watch the Chinese TV channel in San Francisco will know her. Please forgive me for not being able to disclose her full name or provide a picture of her here.

Because I had migrated here last year, I am currently living at her place. Today she came home from work and told me she had received a new assignment - reporting on the Elisa Lam case. When I heard this, my ears perked up! I've been following this case but have not really felt really drawn to it because it's quite a distance from where I live to LA. But now LA feels much closer to me because of her new assignment.

Someone asked here on the forums before - why hasn't there been more new information about the case disclosed via news channels?

My sister said it's because this case involves many countries. This dead girl is Canadian, she's also Chinese, and she went missing and was later found dead in North America. This attracted the attention of not just these 3 countries involved, but also worldwide (including Interpol). The LAPD thus considers this type of case to be of vast and potential influence that will affect people far beyond national borders. Since they have not finished their investigation, they have to remain silent to the public until their investigation is complete.

A telephone call was made to LA's County Coroner's Office. The Coroner did not refuse the request to speak on the phone, and instead, took his time to explain what level of progress they were at regarding the examination of Elisa Lam's body, and what other procedures they will be conducting after this stage is finished. First, it has to made clear that there were absolutely NO signs of trauma or injury on Elisa's body. And when Elisa's body was found, she was fully naked. So far, the medical examinations on her have ruled out any possibility of her death being the result of blunt-force trauma.

Some netizens have asked : is the medical examination of Elisa's body complete?
No the medical examination is not complete. Toxicology reports will take 6 to 8 weeks to finish. This has already been reported in news media and it is not a lie. Toxicology reports do take 6 to 8 weeks to complete.

The toxicology results will complete the picture of how Elisa Lam died, for example, whether she really died of drowning, or if she was strangled to death before her body was placed in the tank, etc. The toxicology results will also specify if she had used any drugs or had been drugged before her death.

Since my older sister is a reporter, she was very keen with her questioning, so a lot of information was obtained from the Coroner this way. In addition, the Coroner affirmed the suspicions that various news media and the general public held. He said that after Elisa died, her body had been hidden/stashed away somewhere, before being disposed of in the tank later.

The LAPD currently possess some knowledge of the likely scenarios in which Elisa met with her death, for instance, whether she was murdered or whether she committed suicide, and the reasons for what happened. The police have in fact already zoned in on who the possible murderer may be. But their investigations are not yet finished. In America the police are not supposed to arrest someone until they have collected sufficient evidence against the perpetrator. So right now, all the police can do is to keep the public informed in a conservative manner rather than reveal specifically who or what they are after.

The possibility of the murderer being hotel staff is real. The staff at this hotel not only hold the keys to all the individual guest rooms, they also hold the key to unlock the alarmed door that leads to the rooftop. This set of keys are believed to be kept in a bunch at the hotel, and several staff members at the hotel are allowed use of this bunch of keys.

The Coroner said that at the moment, Elisa's body is held in a morgue. It will not be released to her family until the medical examination is finally completed.

A netizen asked if Elisa's body was definitely wound and trauma free. The Coroner affirmed this. The Coroner also said that Elisa's body was in a young, fit and healthy state before she died. It showed no signs of having long-term drug use or poisoning.

There are reporters from LA and Vancouver covering this story. My sister actually didn't have to cover this, but all the reporters are fighting for the chance to do this story. Its madness. Anyway, everyone is wondering if I was going to reveal any breaking news stories on here. Well I am going to be honest. There is no breaking news story. Think about it. No major news stations from around the world have received any breaking news story about this case as yet. So why would a small Chinese news station be any different? All I can tell you is what my older sister has told me, and I can confirm that the source of this information is legit and reliable. You don't have to read this. Look away if you are not interested.

Someone asked and I am replying to this. Elisa definitely did not die inside the water tank, because the way her body was found and the time and place do not make sense with a simple case of death by drowning. In other words, the water tank is plainly not the first crime scene. In addition, there have been no wounds found and no trace of another person's bodily fluids left behind in her lower regions.

My sister reiterated that after looking at all the information collected in this case, it is very likely that the murderer is one of the hotel staff. This is not just any old hearsay or rumour. The only people who have free access to Elisa's room and the rooftop stairs are the hotel staff.

Elisa may have been a psychology student in University, but several of her University coursemates have confirmed that her mental capacity definitely seemed normal and she had never displayed any semblance of mental illness. In addition, they can attest to the fact that she was a lovable girl that everybody took a liking to, so to posit that she could be ill enough mentally to want to kill herself is a bunch of nonsense.

Someone asked if the above information I provided is true and correct. I can affirm that everything I've said above is information that my sister had told me, and she obtained that information straight from the Coroner's mouth. She wouldn't dare tell anyone all this if it were not true.

I read the Chinese article too. I seriously doubt it's credibility because why would a pathologist or toxicologist be telling so much unpublished information to a single reporter, and especially when he also talked about police works that are not his department.

And why would a reporter and her station keep so quiet if they are in possession of such hot information?

 

[houndstooth]

@ Qrious

It seems to me she is always doing this covertly. The leaning in to the panel seems not for the purpose of being nearsighted, but rather to conceal the buttons depressed.
She only partly disguises this from the camera and it is noted she herself presses the
DOOR HOLD button. The last time she goes through the same sequence she does a better job of hiding the buttons she is pressing. But, there is no rationale for why a person seeking a particular floor would go about randomly pressing floor buttons.

Why did she go back into the elevator again at all a second time, if she felt it was
inoperable or she herself had caused it to be, even IF that were inadvertant and not
intentional when there is a second elevator right there she could have gone to instead?
And when she goes through the sequence the last time, she doesn't even wait for it to
respond before walking out and back toward the other elevator.
If she got in it, why was this video not released?

It seems to me, it was because she knew it was filmed and she was supposed to have this filmed. For a reenactment like the movie as was posted earlier upthread?
It is possible. She appears to be acting overly dramatically. Did she think there was a
movie being shot at the hotel? Is the director the person she converses with outside the doors?

 

[four_seasons]

I read the Chinese article too. I seriously doubt it's credibility because why would a pathologist or toxicologist be telling so much unpublished information to a single reporter, and especially when he also talked about police works that are not his department.

check the last thread (#3), and on one of the last few pages, someone posted a link to the actual audio from the radio station.

 

[FutzBucket]

I read the Chinese article too. I seriously doubt it's credibility because why would a pathologist or toxicologist be telling so much unpublished information to a single reporter, and especially when he also talked about police works that are not his department.

Even if this all was bs, everything stated was previously reported. I know, because I've seen everything on this.

 

[houndstooth]

Please consider she died of hypothermia and the cold water slowed her decay process.

Okay. Would she have awakened and screamed at the top of her lungs?
If not, then wouldn't she have drowned because of being unconscious, long before exposure to hypothermia?

 

[sunsetbeach]

Is this EL's page: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/archive

IF it is I am curious as to who posted on her account TODAY. It's a picture of the Tarot card "The Hermit" which means (after a search because I am not into that stuff) ...

ACTIONS

being introspective
thinking things over
focusing inward
concentrating less on the senses
quieting yourself
looking for answers within
needing to understand

searching
seeking greater understanding
looking for something
wanting the truth at all costs
going on a personal quest
needing more
desiring a new direction

receiving/giving guidance
going to/being a mentor
accepting/offering wise counsel
learning from/being a guru
turning to/being a trusted teacher
being helped/helping

seeking solitude
needing to be alone
desiring stillness
withdrawing from the world
experiencing seclusion
giving up distractions
retreating into a private world

the Hermit can represent seeking of all kinds, especially for deeper understanding or the truth of a situation. "Seek, and ye shall find," we have been told, and so the Hermit stands for guidance as well.

 

[librarian12372]

If her body was stashed somewhere else for a while, wouldn't decomposition and the body's bloating due to gases make it more difficult to put her down the hatch of the water tank? It seems there would be some residue on the edges of the tank hatch if she was pushed through that at around 2 weeks post-mortem. Are there any photos of the LAPD investigating the hatch prior to the FD retrieving her body? A corpse does bloat considerably in a normal temperature (say, a room or closet).

 

[FutzBucket]

Okay. Would she have awakened and screamed at the top of her lungs?
If not, then wouldn't she have drowned because of being unconscious, long before exposure to hypothermia?

It seems when she first entered the tank, the water wasn't that deep. It got deep, because she took off her clothes.

The tank was to supply water to the building. When she took off her clothes, it clogged the tank, causing it to fill higher.

I like to think she took off her clothes immediately, to better her swimming/floating. There is a chance she took them off later, as an effect of hypothermia where the person believes they are burning, and takes off all their clothes.

 

[houndstooth]

It seems when she first entered the tank, the water wasn't that deep. It got deep, because she took off her clothes.

The tank was to supply water to the building. When she took off her clothes, it clogged the tank, causing it to fill higher.

I like to think she took off her clothes immediately, to better her swimming/floating. There is a chance she took them off later, as an effect of hypothermia where the person believes they are burning, and takes off all their clothes.

I didn't think her clothes were found in the tank.
Also, if this were the case, would the water pressure have been higher
or lower?
Also, if the 89 year old Bernard Diaz claims to the media are correct, then
it would seem the water flooding and/or "explosion" of the pipe would have attracted the attention of building maintenance that would have been drawn to the situation/body much earlier.

 

[Kaliste]

I just think that if we are to accomplish anything, we need to give EL the benefit of the doubt.

We need to trust that she's a good girl. We need to trust that she's not crazy, not sleepwalking, not on drugs, and she's not being controlled by ghosts.

We need to trust that this event was not her fault, and we need to trust that the creature responsible is human.

I've been here long enough to know that bad things, unexpected things, tragic things, bizarre things, happen to good people daily. Elisa has been described as a friendly, outgoing girl. Whether her death was the result of a homicide, accident, suicide or ghost/goblin/demon does not change who she was. No one is judging her, just trying to make sense of what happened.


ETA: My point in this post is just to say "crazy" people are not bad. Mental illness shouldn't be more taboo than murder or the occult. Somewhat recent example would be that Kony 2012 guy (sorry, his name escapes me at the moment) he went from starting a worldwide movement to naked and yelling at cars on a street corner.

 

[FutzBucket]

I didn't think her clothes were found in the tank.
Also, if this were the case, would the water pressure have been higher
or lower?
Also, if the 89 year old Bernard Diaz claims to the media are correct, then
it would seem the water flooding and/or "explosion" of the pipe would have attracted the attention of building maintenance that would have been drawn to the situation/body much earlier.

From what I found, "other items" were found in the tank, but the police weren't talking about them. I believe it's her clothes.

As for maintenance, this was, to them, just a grumpy old man and a busted pipe.

 

[Conductor71]

Hi,

I just wanted to first compliment everyone on being tolerant of all these differing conjectures and providing a healthy outlet for my obsession with this case. It is great to find an intelligent, focused, tolerant group where I can obsess in peace.

I just wanted to share this scientific forensic guide to Bodies from Water.

I also wanted to add a few things that seem odd about the case and video:

I see a few people just pointed out how it is odd she has not even her hotel key card on her unless in her pocket. I too thought it strange. Even then, if I were afraid and on my way back to my room that card would have been in my hot little hand. This says to me she left her room in a hurried, unplanned way and did not expect to be gone long.

Do we know if her room had a bathroom? Maybe bathroom on her floor not working or door locked somehow and she had to visit another floor.

Finally, I find it odd that no one seems to have any information on EL or case. Media is too silent. This leads me to believe that the police know a lot more but not sharing. This makes me think they may have someone profiled. Think of how many serial killers crave media attention or toying with cops. Whatever it is they are sitting tight on info only they have.

What is with the no visible trauma to her body and using the water tank? This is not a crime of opportunity or an accidental homicide; amateurs leave too many traces. The murderer selected her, watched and waited. Based on other's experiences, security is near non-existent and "guests" come and go freely. The killer had not necessarily even registered for a room.

This may be far fetched but could she have met someone on her travels or on the Internet resulting in a detour to LA.

Thanks for letting me ramble and not feel guilty for avoiding the dust bunnies in my house

 

[houndstooth]

From what I found, "other items" were found in the tank, but the police weren't talking about them. I believe it's her clothes.

As for maintenance, this was, to them, just a grumpy old man and a busted pipe.

I still don't understand why you think she would have taken them off to treadwater/swim but not call for help or scream?

 

[catatonia]

If her body was stashed somewhere else for a while, wouldn't decomposition and the body's bloating due to gases make it more difficult to put her down the hatch of the water tank?

Not if her body was stored in a freezer or somewhere it was cold enough to slow down the decomposition.

 

[Chorley8]

Source: http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/...er/story-e6frfq80-1226583533946#ixzz2MCy06ta4


I'm wondering whether some sensation-seeking reporter may have pushed them to say something like this.

Good point though I think worse than that - every element of the case needs to be looked at critically... including these "U.K." "tourists" who conveniently appear before the hotel doors bags read (message: "we are leaving in disgust"), their story ready. Who would drink and bathe in "black" water whatever the source.... for 8 days...makes no sense at all.

Not off topic at all someone rather brilliant drew my attention to this interesting story relating to water, Dow, Azerbaijian.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-make-lake-water-drinkable-in-azerbaijan.html

 

[Hotspotch]

I'm also interested in The Invisible Light Agency angle. She mentions this in a blog post, twitter, tumblr...somewhere. Huffington Post had written an article about it being an offshoot of Raytheon, defense contractor and invisibility cloaking devices. Strange that this business would be located in the same building complex, no?


I did find her elevator video to be odd to have ever been released by LAPD in the first place as it can not help the case, but is voyeuristic, more than anything. It seems her actions are staged. The "startle" jump seems to be improv and not an actual reflex, from my observations, as well as other steps movement. In the photos of her released I've seen her pictured wearing glasses twice and without glasses at least three times. So not sure how significant that is. It may be a hipster affectation, or it could be she needs them and just sometimes wears contacts.

Some say the hotels are linked to Cecil Rhodes. Anyone care to start digging on that?

Your stuff on the Invisible Light Agency, Raytheon defence contractors and invisibility/cloaking devices seems to have a possible tie-in with my 'invisible man' theory on her behavior in the elevator.

Have to wonder if Elisa Lam wasn't one of the agencies childhood projects as she grew up, with the various new techs being tested on her in behavioral modification experiments, to see if they could send her over the edge.
Your observation that they released this sort of gloating video of her being in the elevator before her suicide was interesting in such a context.
There is no audio available with the video , so there is no way to verify what sort of audio-visual tricks they may have been playing with her outside the elevator with their new toys.

Seem slike just the kind of thing which they might dream up to test the limitless applications of a new technology such as that.
How can it be used in conjunction with the latest in subliminal film technologies and neurolinguistic programming etc. to completely control people? Pity the Japanese and Chinese and especially the North Koreans . One can just imagine how the NWO might guinea pig the helpless citizens of for example North Korea, the same way they experimented on the Vietnamese with the Phoenix Program and on the unfortunates in the German internment camps and so forth.

Maybe Elisa Lam ending up in that rooftop tank a la Dark Water was a bulls eye for them, proving to what an extent they could predictively program an individual to do exactly what they had set out as their goal?