CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

[Chimera]

Here's hoping the current gov. of CA will choose wisely in this high profile case.
If the brothers reoffend, it might not look good on his record.

Eta : If they're released solely due to a traumatic childhood, and that they've been model prisoners since then --- then maybe other criminals need to be considered for release ?

What about Jesse Timmendequas, who has also been a model prisoner and had an abusive childhood.
This was documented and factual, seven of the children in the family were removed due to the abuse.
His own extended family were instrumental in getting the kids removed and spoke out regarding the abuse , they weren't able to get all of the kids removed but they tried when Jesse was young, and didn't wait until decades after the murder.

Jury Urged to Spare Life of Megan's Killer

Jesse K.

www.latimes.com

For the record, I do not think Jesse Timmendequas should be released, nor Erik and Lyle.

Childhood abuse is terrible and can create monsters, but should not be a reason to start allowing felons convicted of murder to walk free.

I will admit I'm curious if any families of those murdered, feel that that the criminal who killed their loved one should be released based on a difficult childhood and/or good prison behavior ?
Possible, but I think it's rare.
Omo.

 

[DS2021]

I don’t think there’s any refute to that. There’s many who simply don’t believe them.

If it was just the brothers claiming the abuse happened, id question it, but other people have testified that at least one of the boys told an adult about the abuse at a young age.

You also have someone besides the brothers accusing the father of abuse as well

 

[Seattle1]

Who are the Menendez brothers' wives?

Is time really the greatest healer? Jailed brothers Erik and Lyle Menendez might say yes, despite spending the last 35-years in prison.

www.dailymail.co.uk

10/31/24

 

[LadyL]

Menendez Gives Graphic Details of Night of Carnage : Trial: Pressed by prosecutor, he tells of reloading shotgun to shoot his mother as she crawled away.

Saying that his mother seemed to be "sneaking" away, crawling around a coffee table after being shot several times, Lyle Menendez testified Thursday that he reloaded his shotgun and shot her once more.

www.latimes.com

Speaking of Jose Menendez, Bozanich said: “He didn’t threaten you? He didn’t have a weapon? He didn’t do anything out of the ordinary?”

“Well, yes, he closed the doors,” Lyle Menendez said, meaning the doors to the TV room. That simple act convinced him death was “more than near,” he said.Jose Menendez “was not rising. He was standing. I just kept firing,” the son said.
Red emphasis mine.

Jose's closing the doors meant to Lyle that 'death was near'... ?
Seriously ?

It's not a threat and almost laughable to think that closing a door meant death to the brothers.
Gmab.

For anyone who has seen the crime scene photos , it sounds like Lyle lied about the dad's position when they started shooting:

Graphic warning :



Jose is seated upright on the sofa with his head disfigured on one side, and leaning over to his right.
If he was standing, he'd have severe wounds to the front of his face and maybe chest area ?

The photos after the bodies were removed show a large pooling of blood directly on the seat area of the sofa, so most of the bleeding happened right there.
Jose was not standing, imo, nor was he closing a door.

The most disrespectful part in the above link was said about Kitty, their own mother :

"...She was sort of sneaking around the side of the coffee table,” he said...."

It may be that she was wounded and crawling away in fear of her life, and after the initial shots hit her body, she may have been in total shock.
Omo.

disgusting

 

[LadyL]

Thanks for this, Otto. I can add that I lived through the 90's, and many victims of sexual abuse, parental and otherwise, came forward during this time. Due to the nature of sexual abuse, certainly there were victims who didn't report it, just like there are today, but I find it incorrect that the 90's were a period of sweeping it under the rug, disbelief of victims, etc. In fact, I'd say it was the opposite. There was quite a bit of support for victims during the 90's. MOO.

there were also sexual abuse support groups and therapy in the 90's

 

[LadyL]

If Elizabeth Smart, Jaycee Dugard, Shawn Hornbeck, Colleen Stan etc. had used lethal force to end the nightmare, it would be viewed as a courageous act. Being born into it is worse. Then there's also Gary Plauche but I've been told I can't go into too much detail about that.

that's cause they were actually victims ... JMO

 

[DS2021]

that's cause they were actually victims ... JMO

Someone can be both a victim and someone who victimizes. I agree with you that the brothers situation isnt comparable to the other 4 that were mentioned in the post you were referring to.

 

[Swirlz]

What about Jesse Timmendequas, who has also been a model prisoner and had an abusive childhood.
This was documented and factual, seven of the children in the family were removed due to the abuse.
His own extended family were instrumental in getting the kids removed and spoke out regarding the abuse , they weren't able to get all of the kids removed but they tried when Jesse was young, and didn't wait until decades after the murder.

Jury Urged to Spare Life of Megan's Killer

Jesse K.

www.latimes.com

Timmendequas murdered a 7 yr. old child. Megan Kanka didn't and couldn't have done anything to him or to anyone.

The Menendez brothers struck back against who they claim was a child rapist and a rapist enabler they personally had been repeatedly victimized by, including multiple forcible rapes starting at age 6.

You can say you don't believe their story but it's hardly the same thing.

 

[Chimera]

In many criminal cases, the perp is known not by how good they've behaved in prison or by what some family friends say -- but by their deeds.

 

[Chimera]

Timmendequas murdered a 7 yr. old child. Megan Kanka didn't and couldn't have done anything to him or to anyone.

The Menendez brothers struck back against who they claim was a child rapist and a rapist enabler they personally had been repeatedly victimized by, including multiple forcible rapes starting at age 6.

You can say you don't believe their story but it's hardly the same thing.

Bbm.
Truthfully-- I find their story suspicious.
It never came up until long after the trial was said and done.
I did not say I don't believe them.

As far as their account, yes it could have happened.
Please do not put words into my mouth that I didn't say.
IF their story is true, Timmendequas and the Menendez brothers have a lot in common.
Both are monsters and both slaughtered innocents.

I am not advocating for release for either one.
Both murdered innocent people.
It's sad to think the brothers may get out and still have a life.
As high profile as this case has been, they could be feted as heroes, having survived abuse that may or may not have happened !

If Erik and Lyle are released, this is not justice for Jose and Kitty.
The reloading of the gun and pressing the barrel against their own mother's face --- that continues to chill me to the marrow.
That's no way to treat someone.

Yes I do feel for victims who were never afforded the chance to defend themselves.
Omo.

 

[cocomod]

I understand why this case is so polarizing. I also completely understand those that say they shouldn't be released. However, as heinous as the shooting was, I do think that the resentencing is appropriate in this particular case. They had to be tried 2 different times because the jury didn't find them guilty in the first trial. The second trial, the jury was unable to hear certain aspects of their defense. That to me was prejudicial. I believe they had as much of a right as anyone to a vigorous defense. The fact that they weren't given that defense in the the 2nd attempt to convict them says that it wasn't completely fair. I think that a conviction of manslaughter would have been a better fit; and with that conviction, they would have been released by now. Now, I know this is my opinion only. However, I also see this as 2 young men who IMHO had been abused their whole lives in multiple ways. If I were to compare, I think that a grown man who kills a child should be punished much harsher than they typically are punished. A grown man who murders an innocent and very helpless child is often given 15-20 years, and I believe they should be given life. Again, JMHO.

 

[Noirdame79]

Sexual abuse has been used as a mitigating factor in cases for years. I don't understand the controversy around this particular situation.

I think some of the controversy has to do with how high-profile it was (it is often referred to as the case that made Court TV) and that there are certain people involved in the case who don't want to admit that they were wrong (such as a certain prosecutor whom I won't name). Another issue is that the prosecution in the first trial was unprepared. Their case was weak, which was one reason why in the re-trial, the D.A.'s Office was determined to get a conviction no matter what (the O.J. Simpson acquittal, which happened between the two Menendez trials, didn't help matters). It was about winning, not the truth. It's also true that the knowledge and understanding about sexual abuse, especially of boys and young men especially by other males, or parents sexually abusing their children was lacking during that time. One myth that persisted for many years is that Jose Menendez could not have been a sexual predator and could not have sexually abused his sons because he was married and was a womanizer. The fact that Lyle and Erik came from a wealthy family was used against them, and was used to characterize them as spoiled, money-hungry brats, despite that the prosecution was never able to prove the killings were financially motivated.

The Menendez case has some interesting parallels with the case of Stacey Lannert, who was convicted of first-degree murder for killing her father and sentenced to life without parole. The prosecution contended that she had killed her father for his money, but the defense had evidence that Stacey and her younger sister had been sexually abused by their father and the killing was to protect herself and her sister. After serving 18 years in prison, she was granted clemency.

The Los Angeles District Attorney's Office wanted to make an example of the Menendez brothers.

MOO

 

[Chimera]

I understand why this case is so polarizing. I also completely understand those that say they shouldn't be released. However, as heinous as the shooting was, I do think that the resentencing is appropriate in this particular case. They had to be tried 2 different times because the jury didn't find them guilty in the first trial. The second trial, the jury was unable to hear certain aspects of their defense. That to me was prejudicial. I believe they had as much of a right as anyone to a vigorous defense. The fact that they weren't given that defense in the the 2nd attempt to convict them says that it wasn't completely fair. I think that a conviction of manslaughter would have been a better fit; and with that conviction, they would have been released by now. Now, I know this is my opinion only. However, I also see this as 2 young men who IMHO had been abused their whole lives in multiple ways. If I were to compare, I think that a grown man who kills a child should be punished much harsher than they typically are punished. A grown man who murders an innocent and very helpless child is often given 15-20 years, and I believe they should be given life. Again, JMHO.

Rbm.

Yes, I understand what you're saying about the case and I respect your opinion.

Re. the red bolded ; I'm curious if the mitigating factor -- of others killers having a horrific and well documented case of childhood abuse --- will allow them to one day walk free ?
I am not defending any murderers, if that was the assumption.
For the record, I do not think they should be released.

But some think that abuse is a mitigating factor ?
The release (if it happens) of the Menendez' brothers may set a precedent to pave the way for other murderers...

As far as Erik and Lyle, the bothersome aspect ids that they didn't present the unproven abuse factor until they felt it could bolster their case.
Again this is how I see it.

Agreed it's polarizing and I'm curious how the CA gov. will decide now that it's in Newsom's hands to either keep the brothers locked away, or allow them to go free and expunge their records ?
Not sure about that last bit, but iirc, he'd have the power to do so if it's warranted ?
Omo.

 

[Eridachtlin]

It seems like the simple solution here is to resentence them to life in prison for killing the father and life with no parole for the mother. They get the leniency they claim they should get for the father, and society gets a just punishment for the mother. Justice served.

 

[Chimera]

I'm not defending anyone aforementioned in my posts.
The discussion is whether the mitigating factor of abuse should lessen the sentence handed down ?
Fwiw, that is a valid question, imo.
For anyone regardless of the crime committed-- if they were adults when the killed someone, they should face an appropriate punishment.
Omo.

 

[Chimera]

It seems like the simple solution here is to resentence them to life in prison for killing the father and life with no parole for the mother. They get the leniency they claim they should get for the father, and society gets a just punishment for the mother. Justice served.

That would be the best and most fair solution.
Omo.

 

[Noirdame79]

It seems like the simple solution here is to resentence them to life in prison for killing the father and life with no parole for the mother. They get the leniency they claim they should get for the father, and society gets a just punishment for the mother. Justice served.

Their mother also abused them and they were just as frightened of her as they were of their father. She was not innocent in terms of the abuse and I'm not quite sure why some think that she was.

JMO

 

[LadyL]

Their mother also abused them and they were just as frightened of her as they were of their father. She was not innocent in terms of the abuse and I'm not quite sure why some think that she was.

JMO

they were so frightened they followed her crawling around the furniture and went outside to reload
but instead of running for cover then, they went back in toward the 'threats' who were shot and probably already dying

even if you believe it to be true, (which I do not, obviously) but even if it were, then you think her supposed abuse of them deserves a death sentence?

and that the evil brothers had a right to inflict that death sentence?

 

[Eridachtlin]

Their mother also abused them and they were just as frightened of her as they were of their father. She was not innocent in terms of the abuse and I'm not quite sure why some think that she was.

Probably because there is no evidence she abused them. The most you can offer is "enablization" based only on the word of shotgun murderers who will say anything to get out of prison.

 

[Noirdame79]

Probably because there is no evidence she abused them. The most you can offer is "enablization" based only on the word of shotgun murderers who will say anything to get out of prison.

She kept photos of her sons' private parts. There was also eyewitness testimony about her neglectful and emotionally abusive behavior toward them. Her former therapist testified that her children were an afterthought. The footage of the trial testimony is available on Court TV's website.

MOO