CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

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She kept photos of her sons' private parts. There was also eyewitness testimony about her neglectful and emotionally abusive behavior toward them. Her former therapist testified that her children were an afterthought. The footage of the trial testimony is available on Court TV's website.

MOO

again, there is no credible evidence that those photos were hers, but also that they were of the boys' genitals
someone (like Erik and Lyle) could've easily obtained the photos and placed them in an envelope with her writing on it
neglectful, emotionally abusive, an afterthought ... if true, does that deserve the death penalty? because that's what she got
 
again, there is no credible evidence that those photos were hers, but also that they were of the boys' genitals
someone (like Erik and Lyle) could've easily obtained the photos and placed them in an envelope with her writing on it
neglectful, emotionally abusive, an afterthought ... if true, does that deserve the death penalty? because that's what she got
It was also found among the parents' belongings while Lyle and Erik were incarcerated, how could they have fabricated that from jail? Especially since the argument by those who don't believe them is that they came up with the SA in the County Jail when they were awaiting trial. Unless the insinuation is that they started planning ahead before they were arrested or before their parents' deaths so they could frame them if they got caught, which is far-fetched, IMO.

It was never about the parents being deserving of death. The defense never argued that death was what they deserved, only that they should not have had children. The defense's argument was that years of abuse led Lyle and Erik to believe that their parents would kill them to keep them from exposing the family secrets (the SA). Kitty's neglect and abuse of her sons is relevant, not only because it showed why they feared her but also why they believed that she didn't care about them and wanted them gone, since she made it clear that Jose and her lifestyle was her top priority.

MOO
 
It should also be noted that the negatives (which were also in the envelope and entered in as evidence in the trials) confirmed that all of the photos (including the inappropriate ones of the boys' private parts) were on the same roll.
 
It should also be noted that the negatives (which were also in the envelope and entered in as evidence in the trials) confirmed that all of the photos (including the inappropriate ones of the boys' private parts) were on the same roll.
Do you know for a fact when these photos were taken, and how old they were?
 
It was also found among the parents' belongings while Lyle and Erik were incarcerated, how could they have fabricated that from jail? Especially since the argument by those who don't believe them is that they came up with the SA in the County Jail when they were awaiting trial. Unless the insinuation is that they started planning ahead before they were arrested or before their parents' deaths so they could frame them if they got caught, which is far-fetched, IMO.

It was never about the parents being deserving of death. The defense never argued that death was what they deserved, only that they should not have had children. The defense's argument was that years of abuse led Lyle and Erik to believe that their parents would kill them to keep them from exposing the family secrets (the SA). Kitty's neglect and abuse of her sons is relevant, not only because it showed why they feared her but also why they believed that she didn't care about them and wanted them gone, since she made it clear that Jose and her lifestyle was her top priority.

MOO

obviously they planted it before they were arrested IMO
it's not farfetched with two psychopaths JMO
 
If kitty and jose were loving parents who did not abuse their kids and did not neglect their childrens well being. They would be alive today.
Children do not kill their parents if they are loved and connected.

To me anyone who abuses their child, physically or emotionally should be locked away for life. Kids deserve love and guidance.

These boys lives were probably better in prison than what they had at home.

Who cares thst they went on a spending spree, money was how they grew up. Its all they knew.
Thats how their parents lived a fake, splashy life. They raised these boys! No one else.
Imo
Omo
 
If kitty and jose were loving parents who did not abuse their kids and did not neglect their childrens well being. They would be alive today.
Children do not kill their parents if they are loved and connected.

To me anyone who abuses their child, physically or emotionally should be locked away for life. Kids deserve love and guidance.

These boys lives were probably better in prison than what they had at home.

Who cares thst they went on a spending spree, money was how they grew up. Its all they knew.
Thats how their parents lived a fake, splashy life. They raised these boys! No one else.
Imo
Omo
My thoughts exactly, well put. Jmo.
 
If kitty and jose were loving parents who did not abuse their kids and did not neglect their childrens well being. They would be alive today.
Children do not kill their parents if they are loved and connected.

To me anyone who abuses their child, physically or emotionally should be locked away for life. Kids deserve love and guidance.

These boys lives were probably better in prison than what they had at home.

Who cares thst they went on a spending spree, money was how they grew up. Its all they knew.
Thats how their parents lived a fake, splashy life. They raised these boys! No one else.
Imo
Omo

[bbm]

psychopathic ones do IMO
 
So you think the boys grew up in a loving and nurturing home? And jose and kitty were super unlucky to have had 2 psychopathic children? I wonder what the chances of that poor luck is. Must be one in a billion
Imo

I didn't say it was loving and nurturing. You know that psychopaths can be created too?
 
Here's hoping the current gov. of CA will choose wisely in this high profile case.
If the brothers reoffend, it might not look good on his record.

Eta : If they're released solely due to a traumatic childhood, and that they've been model prisoners since then --- then maybe other criminals need to be considered for release ?

What about Jesse Timmendequas, who has also been a model prisoner and had an abusive childhood.
This was documented and factual, seven of the children in the family were removed due to the abuse.
His own extended family were instrumental in getting the kids removed and spoke out regarding the abuse , they weren't able to get all of the kids removed but they tried when Jesse was young, and didn't wait until decades after the murder.

For the record, I do not think Jesse Timmendequas should be released, nor Erik and Lyle.

Childhood abuse is terrible and can create monsters, but should not be a reason to start allowing felons convicted of murder to walk free.

I will admit I'm curious if any families of those murdered, feel that that the criminal who killed their loved one should be released based on a difficult childhood and/or good prison behavior ?
Possible, but I think it's rare.
Omo.
I'm not familiar with Timmendequas, he killed his abusive parents to save him and his siblings?

I think two issues are being confused:
  • SA victims who kill only their abusers specifically to escape.
vs
  • SA victims who kill indiscriminately.
 
Psychologically, this case is fascinating as it raises questions about how abuse affects decision-making, especially in an environment where the alleged power imbalance was so extreme. Are people who feel perpetually powerless capable of making rational decisions, or could they eventually snap in a way that feels logical to them? I believe we need more education/awareness surrounding this topic. On a human level, I find this case so very sad and sometimes enraging with how some opinions completely ignore the signs of abuse and focus more on how they were portrayed as characters. I full-heartedly think that if it were the Menendez SISTERS, it would be a different situation all round. jmo.
 
there were also sexual abuse support groups and therapy in the 90's
Lyle and Eric grew up in the 80's. They shot their parents in '89.

RAINN wasn't even founded until 1994.

25 years ago in 1999 - A Beverly Hills 90210 TV episode featuring the RAINN hotline suddenly got 4,000 calls after it aired.

In 2024 we still have serious problems when we report rape as adult females.


All of this to say 35 years ago they were still broadcasting the TV PSA "Do you know where your children are?" What bleak times, right?
 
For those who actually watched the trial...
I'm confused about the public believing that Eric and Lyle "came with the 'abuse excuse' late to their defense".

I watched the trial and CSA was mentioned on like, day one? How is that late? How did the public come to believe this?

I may be missing information.
 
obviously they planted it before they were arrested IMO
it's not farfetched with two psychopaths JMO
That’s not possible. The photos are part of a strip of negatives that also contain photos from Erik’s 6th birthday party, proving they were taken and developed together. Kitty’s handwriting is also on the envelope that contained these photos so she must have seen/gone through them at some point and still kept these disturbing photographs

The strip of negatives as well as the photos were posted in court on a white board. The envelope with Kitty’s handwriting was also shown in court

The photos in order from the negatives are:
1. Appears to be a blurry/miscellaneous photo
2. Naked photo of 8 year old Lyle lying down in a bathtub - photo is only of his legs and genitals (upper body and head is cut off from photo)
3. What appears to be sleepy 6 year old Erik being woken up in bed
4. Appears to be a blurry/miscellaneous photo
5. Family and friends celebrating Erik’s 6th birthday
6. Family and friends celebrating Erik’s 6th birthday
7. Family and friends celebrating Erik’s 6th birthday
8. Appears to be a blurry/miscellaneous photo
9. Family and friends celebrating Erik’s 6th birthday
10. Erik clothed and eating a donut with their mother seemingly in the background
11. Naked photo of 6 year old Erik from the chest down (head is cut off from photo)
12. Photo of the family’s dog
13. Appears to be a blurry/miscellaneous photo

Evidence shown starting at the 1:03:02 mark 48-CA v. Menendez: Lyle Menendez
 
Last edited:
For those who actually watched the trial...
I'm confused about the public believing that Eric and Lyle "came with the 'abuse excuse' late to their defense".

I watched the trial and CSA was mentioned on like, day one? How is that late? How did the public come to believe this?

I may be missing information.
The fabrication theory (and that's all it is) originated with the first trial prosecutors, and people like the late Dominick Dunne promoted it as truth. The prosecution was insinuating throughout the trial that the sexual abuse was a fabrication, but they had no proof. For example, Pamela Bozanich wanted to ask Dr. Ann Burgess on cross-examination if it was possible that Erik read books on child abuse in jail in preparation for his testimony, and she specifically mentioned the 1991 book When A Child Kills by attorney Paul Mones (who served as a consultant for the defense) as to what she wanted to ask Burgess about; however, Erik's attorney Leslie Abramson (this discussion took place in a hearing outside the presence of the juries, by the way) pointed out that the District Attorney's Office had contacts in the Sheriff's Office that would have informed them if any such evidence existed. It would have been very difficult to fabricate such a defense, especially at that time (pre-internet) and in the L.A. County Jail. The judge did not allow Bozanich to ask Burgess about that particular book, but he did allow her to ask if it was possible that Erik read books on child abuse in jail so he could pretend to have been a victim of SA. Dr. Burgess stated that for him to do that, he would have had to have access to a vast library of information, including reading material that the general public would not have had access to, to fabricate and fake abuse symptoms. The fabrication and the brothers' were "acting on the stand" theories are utterly ridiculous and came about because of the prosecution's desperation. Bozanich, Dunne, and the late Les Zoeller (the lead detective on the case) continually stated in interviews that the abuse didn't happen and that it was made up, even though there was no evidence of that.

Bozanich, for example, has stated in several interviews for documentaries on the case, that Lyle and Erik and their attorneys had two years to "get ready" for their testimony, implying that they were conspiring and practicing to present false testimony in court. The prosecution had that same amount of time to get ready, why weren't they more prepared? Another problem is that Bozanich and Dunne often claimed that the book mentioned in the above paragraph, When A Child Kills, has many similarities with Lyle and Erik's testimony, implying that they used that as a source. The book was published in 1991, and Lyle and Erik told their relatives about the sexual abuse in the L.A. County Jail in September 1990, approximately six months after their arrest. The timeline does not fit, and there is no evidence that the brothers read that book or any other book on child abuse and/or parricide while in custody.

Late in the first trial, during the prosecution's rebuttal phase, Lyle's former girlfriend, Jamie Piscarsik, testified that Lyle had asked her while was in jail to "look up cases" in a law library, specifically cases of, as she put it, "children who claimed to have killed their parents, claimed sexual abuse, and gotten off", and asked her to make photocopies of these cases for him. Not only was her testimony vague, but there's another issue - acquittals are not published in law books, only convictions are. The defense called a legal expert who confirmed this as well.

Unfortunately, like the "they did it for money" unproven theory, the fabrication theory has stuck to this case like glue, despite the lack of evidence, because certain people have continued to promote these myths to mislead the public.

MOO
 

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