Found Deceased CA - Donna Lass, 25, South Lake Tahoe, 6 Sept 1970

{respectfully snipped}

I just finished reading through the following page, from a site that was recommended by another poster upthread as being good and factually accurate. According to this, DNA and partial palm print apparently ruled him out. This is a pretty good read: http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/case.htm

tcg

Among other things, I find this more compelling.

"Subject at no time appeared to be in a hurry walking with a shuffling lope, Slightly bent forward."

ALA had a leg injury that would account for that type of walk.

As I said, unless it could be established that the DNA under the stamp actually came from Zodiac it is totally valueless unless it could be traced to another known individual.

This is like the conspiracies surrounding the Kennedy Assassination. People will believe what they want to believe.

I do think you, however, for posting the link to this lengthy analysis. Interesting reading. I studied this for a long time but am no longer interested in pursuing it further. This will go into the history books like "Jack the Ripper" and will never be universally agreed on.
 
An interesting bit of information in this case is the story of a man calling both Donna's landlord and employer the next day to say that she would not be returning due to a family emergency. While police evaluated it as a "hoax", nothing further is stated regarding it. How would that person know who the landlord and employer were, and how would he know that she was missing so soon after the fact? If the person were actually identified by police, then his name should be published and he should have been charged with making false statements.

It is possible that Donna's abductor knew her and was specifically trying to buy time by reporting that she had left town for a false reason. It reminds me of Fred Coffey leaving town so abruptly on a "family emergency" coincidentaly following two separate murders in locations near him.

It seems to me that it is pretty obvious that the caller knew her.
 
I have wondered about that phone call. At first I felt that whoever abducted Donna must have known her, because how else would he have known both her employer and her landlord? But now I'm wondering if the abductor saw Donna at the hospital (perhaps he was a patient, a visitor, or a deliveryman) and became fixated on her. He could have followed her home, and abducted her in the parking lot of her apartment complex. This would allow him to know the name of her employer (the hospital) and the name of the apartment complex she lived in.

I don't know...that seems to be a little far fetched but also just could be true...I am wondering however if the Zodiac killer did not know all of his victims?
 
I don't know...that seems to be a little far fetched but also just could be true...I am wondering however if the Zodiac killer did not know all of his victims?

I think it is entirely possible that Zodiac may have known at least some of his victims. However, the seemingly randomness of some of his known murders would argue that he did not know others.

For example, Paul Stine was a Taxi Driver who picked him up and drove him a few blocks to a red light where Zodiac shot him. There were no cell phones then that Zodiac could have used to call a specific cab, and it is most likely that he simply took the first one that he hailed at random.

His other three attacks on young couples also have a random element to them, with the possible exception of Darlene Ferrin's murder. There is the possibility that he knew her, according to various witnesses and to phone calls made to her parents home following the shooting.

In the Ferrin/Mageau shooting, it is quite possible that they were followed by Zodiac to where he shot them.

To try to make a connection between Zodiac and Donna Lass - other than the card and Peek thru the pines letter - I would consider any possible similarities between her disappearance and the Ferrin/Mageau case.

Donna did live in San Francisco and worked at Letterman Army Hospital at the Presidio shortly before her move to South Tahoe, California. When Zodiac murdered Paul Stine, he was close to the Presidio which he may have entered on foot immediately afterward.

If Zodiac knew Donna, he might have met her in SF and then went to Tahoe to kill her. If he did his homework, he might have known who her employer and landlord were. He could have followed her from her job to her appartment.

But these are all only speculations. And as others have pointed out, there simply is not enough information to go on.
 
Wasn't Phillip Garrido looked into in this case? He was also operating around the Stateline area at the time, IIRC...
 
Among other things, I find this more compelling.

"Subject at no time appeared to be in a hurry walking with a shuffling lope, Slightly bent forward."

ALA had a leg injury that would account for that type of walk.

As I said, unless it could be established that the DNA under the stamp actually came from Zodiac it is totally valueless unless it could be traced to another known individual.

This is like the conspiracies surrounding the Kennedy Assassination. People will believe what they want to believe.

I do think you, however, for posting the link to this lengthy analysis. Interesting reading. I studied this for a long time but am no longer interested in pursuing it further. This will go into the history books like "Jack the Ripper" and will never be universally agreed on.

Who else would have licked the stamp on a known Zodiac correspondence? The police were satisfied that this ruled ALA out. Also, the bloody print at the scene of the Paul Stine murder, the writer's palm from another known Z letter, and handwriting analysis - none of them match.
 
I've never seen Donna Lass as a Zodiac victim. She just doesn't fit. Too many deviations from his usual pattern. I've always believed Cheri-Jo Bates was a probable Zodiac victim, especially since the Riverside Police Department's long-time favourite suspect was recently ruled out with DNA evidence (taken from some male hairs clutched in her hand, almost certainly from her attacker). And I also believe the June 4 1963 double-murder of Linda Edwards and Robert Domingos in Santa Barabara county was an early Zodiac crime - possibly his first. That particular case has Zodiac written all over it. The victim profile, the MO, the location - it all fits with Zodiac's later attacks on young couples. Granted, he showed he was willing to break his own mold when he murdered cab driver Paul Stine on a busy San Fran Street. But Lass, to me, is not a compelling possibility. I'd need to see some convincing evidence before I even considered her a Z victim. Thus far I have not.

I note that Darkblue above has linked to Mike Butterfield's site: Zodiackillerfacts.com IMO, that is the site for solid, objective information on the Zodiac crimes. Mike has always taken great pains to maintain an open mind, while taking a good, hard, skeptical look at the facts, thus presenting the evidence as it is, not as he wishes it to be. That is something that can be said about few other "zodiolgists". In many ways, Zodiac is one of the most frustrating cases to discuss online. I was relieved to wade through this thread and not see a bunch of speculation based on what Darlene Ferrin's two wacky sisters decided to make up years after the fact. There have been far too many pixels wasted rehashing the ever-changing stories of those two flakes: strange men showing up at Darlene's parties, stalkers, "strangers" lurking and learing at the restaurant where she worked, etc. Mike Butterfield has examined the original police reports, including the original interviews with the sisters and friends of Darlene Ferrin. NONE of those stories were shared with police in the days and weeks and months after the crime. Not until the 1980s did they start coming up with those stories. Some of their nonsense even made its way into John Douglas's book.

And then there are the Arthur Leigh Allen devotees. Yes, he was a fascinating suspect. He was also ruled out by every piece of forensic evidence developed from the crime scenes and the known Zodiac letters. Handwriting analysis ruled him out as author of the letters. His palm print did not match the "writer's palm" recovered from one of the letters. His fingerprints did not match the bloody print found at the Stine scene. Finally, his DNA did not match DNA recovered from the stamp of one of the known Zodiac letters. It wasn't him. But thanks in large part to Robert Graysmith's Zodiac Unmasked, largely a self-serving historical fiction, and the (admittedly excellent, though even more sensationalized) movie based on the book, millions remain convinced of Arthur Leigh Allen's guilt.

BBM Wow, great post. As to the John Douglas book I assume you refer to "The Cases that Haunt Us". That entire book, IMO, was the final nail in the coffin that was John Douglas's credibility. Graysmith should have sued for Plagerism’ because there was clearly not one shred of new information or research on Zodiac (or most of the other cases for that matter) in the JD book. It was all retread from the Graysmith book. Of course he lost most all of his associates respect when he sold his soul and reputation to the Ramsey's. At least Lou Schmidt appeared to really buy their BS, I don't for one second think Douglas did. It was just a sell out.

It is so refreshing to see the Arthur Lee Allen facts laid out as facts for a change. I have pretty much given up researching anything on the Zodiac because so many sites cannot seem to ever get past him. It's like the fall back position.

I still find the Zodiac the most fascinating of all the unsolved cases over the years. Much more than Jack, or who killed the Black Dahlia (who was actually a friend of my grandmothers so you would think that one might have grabbed me more). Sadly, I think it is too late now and we will never know for sure who he really was.
 
BBM Wow, great post. As to the John Douglas book I assume you refer to "The Cases that Haunt Us". That entire book, IMO, was the final nail in the coffin that was John Douglas's credibility. Graysmith should have sued for Plagerism’ because there was clearly not one shred of new information or research on Zodiac (or most of the other cases for that matter) in the JD book. It was all retread from the Graysmith book. Of course he lost most all of his associates respect when he sold his soul and reputation to the Ramsey's. At least Lou Schmidt appeared to really buy their BS, I don't for one second think Douglas did. It was just a sell out.

It is so refreshing to see the Arthur Lee Allen facts laid out as facts for a change. I have pretty much given up researching anything on the Zodiac because so many sites cannot seem to ever get past him. It's like the fall back position.

I still find the Zodiac the most fascinating of all the unsolved cases over the years. Much more than Jack, or who killed the Black Dahlia (who was actually a friend of my grandmothers so you would think that one might have grabbed me more). Sadly, I think it is too late now and we will never know for sure who he really was.

I agree with everything you said here except the last paragraph and I understand where you are coming from on that. Although Zodiac is fascinating, I find several cases, including the two you mention, more so; Cleveland Torso being #1.

Regarding Douglas, who is the "Us" in his title? To me, I thought he was referring to the FBI but that agency wasn't involved in most, if not all, of the cases he covers.
 
I agree with everything you said here except the last paragraph and I understand where you are coming from on that. Although Zodiac is fascinating, I find several cases, including the two you mention, more so; Cleveland Torso being #1.

Regarding Douglas, who is the "Us" in his title? To me, I thought he was referring to the FBI but that agency wasn't involved in most, if not all, of the cases he covers.

I always assumed the "us" was us as in the public. I never really thought it was the FBI.

It's curious, isn't it, what each of us find that fascinates us about such cases? As I mentioned, my grandmother, who raised me, was friends with Elizabeth Short. Back in the day, they hung out together some in Long Beach, where I was born and raised. I understand from my mother and aunts that my grandmother had a pretty wild youth.

As such, that was one of the first cases I ever heard about and, while I have some interest in it, it has just never grabbed me the way Zodiac did.

I do love me some classic cases though. Zodiac, Sam Sheppard, was once into the Lindbergh case (until I became convinced Hauptman was really guilty) and Lizzie always fascinates.
 
:bump: for Donna.

First of all, I don't know a whole lot about the Zodiac Killer (just what you read on Wikipedia, basically, lol), but I don't really think he is the person behind Donna's disappearance from what I've read about him. He wanted the bodies to be found. He wanted to be known. Why is he suddenly hiding a body in Donna's case? And in particular, why isn't he taunting the police? Even if he hid her body, I feel like he would've sent some details about the crime only the police knew or fabric from her clothing to the police at a later date. As I said, he clearly got satisfaction from being recognised for his crimes.

Plus, the person who was responsible for Donna's disappearance (I believe it's the person who called her landlord and employer) clearly knew her personally or at the very least took their time to stalk her so they knew these details. Zodiac appeared to be an opportunistic killer and didn't know his victims.
If the Zodiac could call anyone, he'd call the police to say where he just dumped the body's.

One thing I'm very interested in is her possessions apparently being found in a grave. Does anyone know where this grave is? And does anyone know if the site has been checked again for other graves, possibly containing more possessions or maybe a body? I think it would be interesting if they went back to the site with a cadaver dog and see if they found anything.
 
This disappearance, in my opinion, does not fit the Zodiac. I think it's far more likely she was taken by a someone who knew her, hence the calls to work and the concealment of remains.
 
:bump: for Donna.

First of all, I don't know a whole lot about the Zodiac Killer (just what you read on Wikipedia, basically, lol), but I don't really think he is the person behind Donna's disappearance from what I've read about him. He wanted the bodies to be found. He wanted to be known. Why is he suddenly hiding a body in Donna's case? And in particular, why isn't he taunting the police? Even if he hid her body, I feel like he would've sent some details about the crime only the police knew or fabric from her clothing to the police at a later date. As I said, he clearly got satisfaction from being recognised for his crimes.

Plus, the person who was responsible for Donna's disappearance (I believe it's the person who called her landlord and employer) clearly knew her personally or at the very least took their time to stalk her so they knew these details. Zodiac appeared to be an opportunistic killer and didn't know his victims.
If the Zodiac could call anyone, he'd call the police to say where he just dumped the body's.

One thing I'm very interested in is her possessions apparently being found in a grave. Does anyone know where this grave is? And does anyone know if the site has been checked again for other graves, possibly containing more possessions or maybe a body? I think it would be interesting if they went back to the site with a cadaver dog and see if they found anything.

This is surely a major clue/lead? Do you have any links to the grave article?

I think all the zodiac allegations are clouding this case , more likely a admirer / stalker?

Mark.
 
This disappearance, in my opinion, does not fit the Zodiac. I think it's far more likely she was taken by a someone who knew her, hence the calls to work and the concealment of remains.

I completely agree. I would consider it far more likely that Zodiac would take credit for crimes he actually did not commit instead of sending some obscure card and hoping someone made the obsure connection.

Additionally, of course, there is no evidence he ever conealed his kills, quite the opposite in fact, and certainly never bothered to conceal his victims personal items.

There is always a strong tendency for people to want to tie random murders to some famous serial killer, be it Bundy, Zodiac or Sells.
 
This is surely a major clue/lead? Do you have any links to the grave article?

I think all the zodiac allegations are clouding this case , more likely a admirer / stalker?

Mark.

It's mentioned in her Doe Network page, but I don't know if there is anything more out there. I'll see what I can find.

Lass was last seen in South Lake Tahoe, she left her residence without her vehicle or personal belongings. Lass worked as a nurse at the Sahara Hotel-Casino. Her last entry in the nurse's log book was at 01:50, and although her car was found parked at her apartment complex in nearby State-line, she wasn't seen after leaving the Sahara.

The next day, an unknown male called her landlord and employer, stating Lass would not be returning due to a family emergency. The call was a hoax, and there has been no trace of Lass ever since.

Donna Lass may be a victim of the Zodiac serial killer, though her body has never been found.
A Zodiac letter gave clues to her body, but it has never been found. A few artifacts belonging to Lass were found in what appeared to be a shallow grave, but no body surfaced.


I think an admirer or stalker is very likely.
 
:bump: for Donna.

First of all, I don't know a whole lot about the Zodiac Killer (just what you read on Wikipedia, basically, lol), but I don't really think he is the person behind Donna's disappearance from what I've read about him. He wanted the bodies to be found. He wanted to be known. Why is he suddenly hiding a body in Donna's case? And in particular, why isn't he taunting the police? Even if he hid her body, I feel like he would've sent some details about the crime only the police knew or fabric from her clothing to the police at a later date. As I said, he clearly got satisfaction from being recognised for his crimes.

Plus, the person who was responsible for Donna's disappearance (I believe it's the person who called her landlord and employer) clearly knew her personally or at the very least took their time to stalk her so they knew these details. Zodiac appeared to be an opportunistic killer and didn't know his victims.
If the Zodiac could call anyone, he'd call the police to say where he just dumped the body's.

One thing I'm very interested in is her possessions apparently being found in a grave. Does anyone know where this grave is? And does anyone know if the site has been checked again for other graves, possibly containing more possessions or maybe a body? I think it would be interesting if they went back to the site with a cadaver dog and see if they found anything.

I went to the area where Zodiac gave clues to finding Donna's body. It was the area where Dave Peterson and Harvey Hines found glasses that were believed to be Donna's. The person who has the "best true" information on Donna's case is Howard Davis, he still stays intouch with Donna's sister Mary. I have read some of the questions asked here about her case, like did she take off ? No she was expecting her friend from S.F.to meet her at the casino where she worked as a nurse. Donna's last entry in the note book at the nurses station was interupted by someone possibly grabbing her from behind. Because the pen she was writing with had dragged off of the paper.I have been to her nurses station and it had a back door that lead to the parking lot. It would be easy to take her out that back door. Her car was at her apt because she walked to work that day, knowing her friend Jo Ann would pick her up at work and they could go together to her new apt. She had been there only one day. Donna's friends told Harvey Hines that a man named Larry Kane was bothering Donna. It turns out that Kane lived in S.F. when Donna did and move when she did to Lake Tahoe. He worked at the same casino. I do not believe he is the Zodiac, but he sure is a good suspect in her case !
 
MHoward48, The person in that family your mother should have worried about was the father ! I know some of the family pretty well and met some of the others in that family a few times. I am in touch with Pam mostly.
I am trying to find out about the single man who live close to their home who seemed odd and who liked taking cabs everywhere. Do you know who that man was ? I am also looking for the Babysitter Karen, do you know her last name or anyone you think I should talk to about Darlene's case ? Darlene and I dated the same Vallejo Cop, Buzz Gordon at the same time according to her family. I put flowers for her on her death day and Birthday. July 5th is getting very close.
 
Zodiac at times would claim credit for crimes which were committed by other perpetrators. It is also a possibility that the person who abducted (and probably killed) Donna could have hoped to pin the blame on Zodiac.

Where is this Larry Kane today? And what other things is he known to have done?
 
Zodiac at times would claim credit for crimes which were committed by other perpetrators. It is also a possibility that the person who abducted (and probably killed) Donna could have hoped to pin the blame on Zodiac.

Where is this Larry Kane today? And what other things is he known to have done?

Wow that was a fast responce! Larry Kane died a couple of yrs ago. He moved from Zepher Cove NV, (north of the casinos)and moved near Reno NV just before he died. He was arrested something like 19 times in 20 yrs for things like peeping tom, burg., larceny.He was arrested in Lake Tahoe in the 70's for using a black box to send and receive phone calls without paying.He was not a nice man . He had 3 or 4 drivers license with different names on them , because Calif. took his DL away. He had two SS numbers. He used the name Kane,Cane, Kaye, Klien and Barton. He worked for Alan Dorfman who was in the mafia. Dorfman made Kane leave Las Vegas about 1974. Kane worked mostly in real estate.
 
A bit over-sensationalized from an odd website, but interesting nonetheless.

[h=1]The 6 Creepiest Unexplained Phone Calls[/h]

[h=2]#4. The Zodiac Killer May Have Called in Sick for One of His Victims[/h]
In 1970, 25-year-old Donna Lass worked as a nurse at the first aid station of a casino in South Lake Tahoe, California, where her duties presumably included treating gamblers who had their hands smashed by Robert De Niro. One day, Lass' boss and landlord both received calls from an unidentified man who claimed she was dealing with an illness in the family and would be out of town for a while.
 

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