Found Deceased CA - Elizabeth Ernstein, 14, Redlands, 18 March 1968

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One other musing:

Wrightwood in 1968 was a vacation place. I believe there were very few full-time residents. Did the killer have a family vacation cabin or knew friends who had a place there? Why go there when in 1968 there were plenty of remote enough places near our house in Mentone. A bit of a drive then, and in mid-March with the wetter winters a chance of snow on that narrow road--I think it was skinny two lane then.

Jeff
 
Yes, about 45 miles from home to grave on mostly freeways so about a 40 minute drive.

Back in 1963-1967 I remember taking a family trip to Wrightwood and I recall it was about 2 hours. Interstate 215 I think was part of 395 then and a two-lane road. I think the fastest way was past Fontana onto I-15 but I could be wrong. The road to Wrightwood I remember being pretty slow and narrow.
 
Hi Pink Panther,
My mother was the psychiatric social worker for all of San Bernardino county with a few social workers under her I believe with their office in San Bernardino. Her job did involve a few field evaluations from time to time but no therapies. She passed in 2002 and my father in 1997. I believe detectives did look at that angle but didn't come up with anything then. I do vaguely remember meeting JG and I believe anybody who knew her was questioned as this was one of the ONLY cases like this back then.

Hi Jeff,

There is one person that knew her....going by what he has posted...that was not questioned back then as he had hit the road hitchhiking either the first week of March/68 or after going to meet her "only a short time (maybe a week) before she disappeared"and didn't know that she was missing until the early summer of 1969.

March 11th. would be a week before she went missing...the first week of March is from the 1st. to the 7th.[Yea nitpicking]

My sincerest condolences for what you and your family have had to endure all these years.
 
So strange how the case got an "tip" about the (male) remains being Elizabeth in 2012, does webslueths have any criminal psychologists that could look into a reason (profile) of why this person called it in? Or any ideas, cat n mouse? Need to "talk about it" ?

Anyhow found this from 2012, interesting, from JG I believe


John317
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John317
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Location: near Loma Linda,CA

Posted September 30, 2012
A few weeks before she disappeared, she called my house about 11:00 PM and talked to my sister because I was gone with a friend of mine. Elizabeth told my sister to tell me she would meet me in front of the Redlands Community hospital at about 1:00 or 1: 30 AM because she had something very important to tell me.

That meant she would have to walk for several miles along many dark and deserted streets. My friend gave me a ride about half a mile from the hospital and I walked the rest of the way. I stayed on the other side of the street opposite the hospital for over an hour, yet I never saw Elizabeth.

She may have shown up but we didn't see one another. It was dark and cold and I sometimes climbed up into a tree. I thought I could see the area better from up there. I realize now I should have been standing in a different location and walking around there instead of standing pretty much in one spot and being up in a tree for a good part of the time. Maybe if I had yelled out her name, she would have heard me and we would have met together that night.

I tried to call her afterwards to find out what she wanted to tell me, but every time I called, someone would hang up the phone. I believe it was Liz's older sister who hung up on me because Liz told me that her sister didn't want me talking to her. (I never met or talked with the sister, but she knew I was nineteen.)

Then, on March 7, I began a hitch-hiking trip to New York City. She disappeared on March 18. But it wasn't until I returned home the next September that I heard Elizabeth had vanished. By that time, I had been inducted into the army. I simply thought that Liz had run away from home. I was concerned about her, but I also had the army and Vietnam to think about at that point. Within a couple of weeks of my return home, I was sent to the Induction Center in Los Angeles for a physical, and soon after that I found myself at Ft. Ord.

For the next year or so, I had no more knowledge of Elizabeth. When I did, it was about August of 1969 and I was in the stockade at Ft. Bliss, Texas, awaiting a court martial for going AWOL. Two detectives came there and asked me questions about Liz. They showed me a picture of Liz and asked me if I knew who it was. I said, "Sure, that's Elizabeth Ernstein--what happened to her?" They told me that Liz's mom thought Liz was with me! Her mom thought that Liz had run off with me when I left on my hitch-hiking trip, but of course that was not true.

A few months later, I was with my unit at the Robert E. Lee Barracks near Mainz, Germany.

https://clubadventist.com/forums/topic/35779-cold-case-partly-solved/
 
Maybe I missed something, but this is the first time I've read that the meeting between the male friend and Elizabeth took place late at night. I always assumed it was during the day. It really changes things. Could the story be some sort of projection? Perhaps it was the boy who called Elizabeth and asked her to meet him. Did she sneak out of the house that night for the meeting w/o her parents knowledge? Did something happen during that meeting, eg sexual activity (consensual or otherwise)? If such a thing happened, could the male friend have been concerned that Elizabeth would tell someone?
 
Anything? Jeff? They really should have cold case detectives look into this one....before it gets any colder. Please!!!

WTF?? Up in a tree? Story keeps changing. Gets crazier with every new update.

"She may have shown up but we didn't see one another. It was dark and cold and I sometimes climbed up into a tree. I thought I could see the area better from up there. I realize now I should have been standing in a different location and walking around there instead of standing pretty much in one spot and being up in a tree for a good part of the time. Maybe if I had yelled out her name, she would have heard me and we would have met together that night."

If two detectives showed up and showed you a photo of someone you knew would the first words out of your mouth be? "Sure, that's Elizabeth Ernstein--what happened to her?" I think I would say.." That's Elizabeth...why are you looking for her."
 
Thank you all for the continued interest. If anybody does get a hold of good info for the detectives, this I believe is still good info: Cold Case Detectives Ryan Ford or Scott Cannon of the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department’s Homicide Detail at (909) 387-3589.
I haven't heard of any new developments unfortunately.
 
Also of note - this guy states back on June 2, 2012 that he was not aware that Elizabeth was missing until early summer of 1969...post #19. In the comment section of the link I posted May 4, 2016 post #106 he states that he still has one of the early missing posters published in the newspapers in 1968. Am I reading too much into this? Just seems like there are so many inconsistencies in the statements.

Orange groves...trees. JMO

In hope of a resolution.

Regards,
~T~
 
Bump some more
Thanks Pink and Thyme for hanging in. At first I thought the inconsistencies in the stories were just a typical Cali young man, like an old boyfriend of mine, so casual in their approach to romance and girlfriends. But on second thought...:rolleyes:o_O
 
So strange how the case got an "tip" about the (male) remains being Elizabeth in 2012, does webslueths have any criminal psychologists that could look into a reason (profile) of why this person called it in? Or any ideas, cat n mouse? Need to "talk about it" ?

Anyhow found this from 2012, interesting, from JG I believe


John317
Past the 10,000 Mark
John317
Moderators
28
29,683 posts
Location: near Loma Linda,CA

Posted September 30, 2012
A few weeks before she disappeared, she called my house about 11:00 PM and talked to my sister because I was gone with a friend of mine. Elizabeth told my sister to tell me she would meet me in front of the Redlands Community hospital at about 1:00 or 1: 30 AM because she had something very important to tell me.

That meant she would have to walk for several miles along many dark and deserted streets. My friend gave me a ride about half a mile from the hospital and I walked the rest of the way. I stayed on the other side of the street opposite the hospital for over an hour, yet I never saw Elizabeth.

She may have shown up but we didn't see one another. It was dark and cold and I sometimes climbed up into a tree. I thought I could see the area better from up there. I realize now I should have been standing in a different location and walking around there instead of standing pretty much in one spot and being up in a tree for a good part of the time. Maybe if I had yelled out her name, she would have heard me and we would have met together that night.

I tried to call her afterwards to find out what she wanted to tell me, but every time I called, someone would hang up the phone. I believe it was Liz's older sister who hung up on me because Liz told me that her sister didn't want me talking to her. (I never met or talked with the sister, but she knew I was nineteen.)

Then, on March 7, I began a hitch-hiking trip to New York City. She disappeared on March 18. But it wasn't until I returned home the next September that I heard Elizabeth had vanished. By that time, I had been inducted into the army. I simply thought that Liz had run away from home. I was concerned about her, but I also had the army and Vietnam to think about at that point. Within a couple of weeks of my return home, I was sent to the Induction Center in Los Angeles for a physical, and soon after that I found myself at Ft. Ord.

For the next year or so, I had no more knowledge of Elizabeth. When I did, it was about August of 1969 and I was in the stockade at Ft. Bliss, Texas, awaiting a court martial for going AWOL. Two detectives came there and asked me questions about Liz. They showed me a picture of Liz and asked me if I knew who it was. I said, "Sure, that's Elizabeth Ernstein--what happened to her?" They told me that Liz's mom thought Liz was with me! Her mom thought that Liz had run off with me when I left on my hitch-hiking trip, but of course that was not true.

A few months later, I was with my unit at the Robert E. Lee Barracks near Mainz, Germany.

https://clubadventist.com/forums/topic/35779-cold-case-partly-solved/

I vaguely remember reading about this case but I never knew she was located. After reading through this thread it's very intriguing to say the least. Like all of you I caught the inconsistencies but reading this other post, his timeline is a bit clearer. Some of the things are odd (climbing a tree) but he is recollecting events that happened in 1969 and we are reading it with new-century eyes. Whole different era. But I am creeped out that this guy was almost 20 and Liz was 14. I wasn't alive then but I'm willing to bet this not a usual thing back then.

I don't see anything wrong with him referring to her with her given name, as he is maybe doing it out of respect and all news articles refer to her as "Elizabeth". When said he responded to detectives with "What's happened to her" I would assume that he figured something had happened if they told him they were detectives or LE. I'm not sure if it reflects guilt or knowing more.

But some things to note. At first I thought, well he couldn't transported her to Wrightwood if he was hitchhiking, it would mean he didn't have a vehicle. But in this second posting, he had access to transportation. What is peculiar is the 'friend' only gives him a ride to within 1/2 mile of the hospital? Why would he do that? I mean, he couldn't drive him a whole 45-60 more seconds to his destination? It's almost as if he's purposely leaving his friend out of the equation.

What is really odd is this supposed phone call to his house by Liz at 11 pm. Again, different era, no one would dare call at that time of night unless it was an emergency, IMO. Then the meeting between 1-1:30 am. WTH. He says he tried to call her several times afterward but to no avail. If it were me and I couldn't get her on the phone, I would be getting to her house or attempting some other contact to find out what was so incredibly important and why I was stood up at 1:30 in the morning. Then a few weeks later, she oddly disappears. Something is off. Way, way off.

Just an observation that I often come across in cases as this, when someone is murdered and buried, it is usually done by someone the victim knew.
 
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The account given about climbing a tree seems strange now that I reread it. It's rather anecdotal and unnecessary. And he said "I sometimes climbed up into a tree". Sometimes, but not necessarily this time? Sounds predatory. The fact that Liz disappeared near an orange grove and this statement is most unsettling.

In the first post he said "only a short time (maybe a week) before she disappeared, Elizabeth called my family" and in the other post he said it was about 3 weeks. This stood out for me as well "I'd especially like to know if Elizabeth's older sister is still alive." What would the purpose of this be? His own disclosure was that he never met or spoke with her.

We don't know if these two (JG and Liz) had sexual relations but the hospital account really stands out. I wonder if he had actually set up to meet there because she may have been pregnant and it was the only time she could get there without her parents knowing. Perhaps her death was a result of a backroom abortion attempt.

Amazingly, he produces the exact date (March 7th) he began hitchhiking to NY. Why was there this sudden need to go across country and then to soon after join the Army? I wonder if there is something to corroborate JG not being in the the state on the 18th.
 
Force 10, the “especially” might have to do with his next post #19, from that post -

But then I don't know what was happening in her family, and I do know that she expressed fear of an older sister. I don't know why she was afraid of her sister. She never told me why, except that I remember she said that her sister had once been in a mental hospital-- I think Patton State Hospital. Whether this was true, I don't know, but it is what she told me, and I had no reason not to believe her. She told me this during a phone conversation when she was explaining to me why she couldn't call me more often. She said her sister "wouldn't let" her. She said her sister thought I was "too old" for Elizabeth, since I was almost 20 and Elizabeth was 14. Looking back on it now, I can see why Elizabeth's sister thought I was too old for her, but at the time, I didn't understand why the sister objected to my being Elizabeth's friend and talking on the phone with her.


Also, It would be incredibly hard to prove where you where in 1968, but hitchhiking near impossible
 
Also of note - this guy states back on June 2, 2012 that he was not aware that Elizabeth was missing until early summer of 1969...post #19. In the comment section of the link I posted May 4, 2016 post #106 he states that he still has one of the early missing posters published in the newspapers in 1968. Am I reading too much into this? Just seems like there are so many inconsistencies in the statements.

Orange groves...trees. JMO

In hope of a resolution.

Regards,
~T~

It is interesting that he stated that considering he wasn't back until a whole year and a half since he left and she disappeared. It just struck me that he was never questioned by SBSO but by PI's hired by the family. This was two separate investigations and the PI's probably weren't privy to access certain information such as witness statements, eye witness accounts, etc. And how many times have we heard about evidence not vetted or misplaced only to be discovered years later when it was too late.
 

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