CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #3

Nymeria

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:couch:
We are all hiding from you Gajonka :giggle:

But seriously, a lot are following a couple other threads (that I know of)-

You should check this one out, it is full of some really out there characters, and is being live streamed-
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245815&page=3

Wow - I cannot believe how quiet this thread has gotten. IS there another ER thread I don't know about - and this is the decoy thread to keep me isolated? (smile)
 

justthinkin

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My Dear Mega Sleuths:

I've returned... been some buzzing going on... about the bike. How the evening photos reveal no bicycle... and the morning photos reveal a plant. The theory behind it is sub-par, but I could see them putting the bike "on top." This means:

HYPOTHETICAL

The bike is actually 100 yards away, but it is planted next to the car - for optics... another case if insulting our intelligence.
(e.g.: they won't be able to really get behind a gun grab unless they see the bike, is the idea)

Do I believe this ?
What do you think? Here's the you tube on it :

Proof Police Staged Elliot Rodger Crime Scene - YouTube
Who knows... sad.


In other news, looking forward to catching up. I can only imagine.

We know he had no talent, outside of WOW and writing. The girl who survived, after getting shot five times, that's a miracle. Bless her... she is special.

Luv ya,

The Gajonka

Maybe you should ask why the background is blurry to the left of the vehicle where the bike is supposedly missing? Looks to me like something is/was there, a bike perhaps, has been covered up, IOW, a doctored photo.
 

minor4th

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...and so I ask again, where did ER get the xanax from? And how long was he taking xanax?



Was it a formal prescription and if so, who was writing it (which indicates they were diagnosing and treating him for a mental illness)?



Or was it from dubious internet black markets?



Both of those questions and answers leave a lot open for some serious lawsuits either way.


Xanax is super easy to obtain on the street as well as from any doc-in-a-box
 

minor4th

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We have to try something no? My god in the last week the ages of killers are younger and younger


If I could wave a magic wand and change something that might help - I would overhaul the identification of mental illnesses and the delivery of services for the mentally ill and get rid of the stigma attached to it.

That's the only thing that will help IMO - and not just rampages; it would improve many of the ills that harm our society.

I just don't see that happening in a meaningful way.
 

BigCat

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Wow - I cannot believe how quiet this thread has gotten. IS there another ER thread I don't know about - and this is the decoy thread to keep me isolated? (smile)

I remember a poster made a similar comment in the Aaron Alexis thread. That thread went quiet much quicker than this one.

I think this thread has quieted down because there isn't much new info. The story has disappeared from the MSM, for the most part. Just tabloid articles now.

IMO, when the headline went from "Virgin Killer Shoots Hot Blondes" to "Three Asian Men Stabbed to Death," the story lost momentum. The media loves sex and polarizing issues. Good for ratings, I'm sure.
 

gajonka

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The irony of the now-rarely-prescribed Valium is this: Xanax (for those of you that get my drift....wink, wink).


The dreaded "Mother's little helper" is like tic tac candy compared to the stuff they dispense out like water today. Iykwim?

Ahhh, Taste of Honey -

Remember we have to return to those stories about the awkward remarks in the workplace... could be some litigation in yor favor (smile).

OKAY-

We know he had planned on taking to the roomies while they slept.


HYPOTHETICAL
His "Day Of Retribution" begins on an extremely high note - and it precipiattes to dust thereafter ( oh, no, my "u" key is malfunctioning- a vowel, I;m in trouble).

He is beaming ( no pun intended). The couch is where he strikes A as he sleeps. B and C are next- as they sleep? Two machete's - okay, yeah, with the bunk, too. Not an issue to tear that pair- making three.

He thinks he is doing better than he expected. He is magnificent.


Obvi, aforementioned is from his perspective...


I wonder when they will close this up and release the info - months, weeks? Wdyt>?

"I have travelled the world... I have so much to talk about," ER says.


I feel we also much to discuss, still.

Lv ya,

\G
 

mrsobrien

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I'm quiet because I'm over spending my mental energy on ER. Now I'm just sad for the victims. :-(
 

Paladine

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Wow - I cannot believe how quiet this thread has gotten. IS there another ER thread I don't know about - and this is the decoy thread to keep me isolated? (smile)

LMAO...Personally, I've been busy with work for the past few days, thought I'd check in. Next few days off, yay!, going to be searching for news in the am. :)
 

lawstudent

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I've had experience with withdrawal from antidepressants too as have others I know--for me it was Paxil--ugh, trying to get off of that made me feel so sick. I just tapered off really slowly. But I have sense learned that this is not the same kind of addiction withdrawal that doctors mean when they say a med is addictive-- I don't really understand the difference but apparently there is one. So, even though you can feel sick trying to get off an antidepressant, that doesn't mean that an SSRI is addictive in the true medical sense. Maybe Cariis can explain this?

I think they can cause physical dependence, but addiction is physical dependence + a psychological need to compulsively use the substance to get high. The second aspect is missing. I've had minor withdrawals from one before.
 

CARIIS

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In his manifesto,this profoundly struck me, as it relates to "addiction" allegations etc

I will quickly swallow all of the Xanax and Vicodin pills I have left

Typically,Addicts don't have drugs they are addicted to "left" (especially when experiecing high levels of depression, anxiety, rage etc- abuse increases in those states)

- it is a telling statement IMO
 

Bravo

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In his manifesto,this profoundly struck me, as it relates to "addiction" allegations etc

I will quickly swallow all of the Xanax and Vicodin pills I have left

Typically,Addicts don't have drugs they are addicted to "left" (especially when experiecing high levels of depression, anxiety, rage etc- abuse increases in those states)

- it is a telling statement IMO

Excellent observation my dear Watson :seeya:
 

lawstudent

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Just to clarify, I think doctors don't believe in physical dependence on antidepressants either. They recognize withdrawal, but it's not like your body needs more and more and loses the ability to regulate itself through the use of antidepressants. It seems like a relatively small number of people get withdrawal, as your body adjusts to the change in brain chemicals, but I guess the idea is that SSRIs keeps your body from taking the chemicals back into the receptors, so that you have more of them around to prevent depression. Addictive drugs cause your receptors to flood your body with those chemicals to crazy levels and then you run out of them altogether, leading to a longterm depression. So if you go off an SSRI, you may have some issues with adjusting to lower serotonin levels or whatever, but it's not like you were used to having abnormally large amounts of those chemicals in your brain and have fried your receptors such that you now are totally mentally messed up, which causes the withdrawal and later problems.
 

HMSHood

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Lanza was sitting in his mother's basement most of the time. People just never got a chance to know him to figure out he was going to be a rampage killer. But there were some red flags about him as well, such as violent writings when he was a child and still went to school.

Adam Lanza is more of an enigma compared to Seung-Hui Cho. Cho by all accounts was very quiet and almost never talked. At least there were people around him. Lanza did talk at times and even called into a radio show.
 

HMSHood

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I don't think anyone predicted any of them would be rampage killers. Now some people who met him when he was 5 say "if I had to guess who would do this, it would be him." While I can believe he displayed unsettling behavior at a young age, I do not think they ever actually entertained that thought until it happened. Loughner's parents had kicked him out, I believe, so maybe they had an inkling. But clearly the family members of these people didn't believe they were sadistic murderers, whether people view them as ignorant or not. Clearly his roommates and the other person in that apartment didn't think ER would go on a murder spree, and neither did his parents. Maybe the people who were present for his balcony incident. Very, very few people are predicted to be rampage killers. And if we tried, I can't even imagine the amount of people we would have to lock up to be reasonably sure this wouldn't happen again, especially because the clearest objective indicator is access to guns. A person can be a total nut, but they can't go on a rampage shooting until they have a gun. Most people can have guns and never develop any of the issues that lead to rampage shootings - for practicality reasons, I do not support increased gun control laws in terms of addressing this specific type of situation because I do not believe they can help to the extent that they can be legally and politically implemented. People keep saying look at the whole picture for ER - but we need actual criteria to take action. The whole picture is very hard to come by in advance and is largely pieced together in hindsight. I think most people in here, even if they are not pro-gun control, do want people who seem nutty to be off the streets once it's become clear they've acquired guns and are not just being socially awkward and pissed off in their rooms, like huge amounts of young people are. But that system risks a whole lot of people getting their guns taken away after any incident of abnormal behavior, which would essentially mean people would have to demonstrate a completely stable personality and undergo a full background to get a weapon. That would be impossible and unconstitutional, and I think people would be surprised by how few make the cut.

People may crack jokes that a person they know could go on a shooting spree. In all seriousness, there is no clear profile of a rampage killer. They do share some common traits, but other than that, they are impossible to predict.

I do notice once the crime has happened, people who knew the perpertrator say there is something off about him or her.
 

HMSHood

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Just to clarify, I think doctors don't believe in physical dependence on antidepressants either. They recognize withdrawal, but it's not like your body needs more and more and loses the ability to regulate itself through the use of antidepressants. It seems like a relatively small number of people get withdrawal, as your body adjusts to the change in brain chemicals, but I guess the idea is that SSRIs keeps your body from taking the chemicals back into the receptors, so that you have more of them around to prevent depression. Addictive drugs cause your receptors to flood your body with those chemicals to crazy levels and then you run out of them altogether, leading to a longterm depression. So if you go off an SSRI, you may have some issues with adjusting to lower serotonin levels or whatever, but it's not like you were used to having abnormally large amounts of those chemicals in your brain and have fried your receptors such that you now are totally mentally messed up, which causes the withdrawal and later problems.

On a related topic about psychiatric medication. Every time I hear about a rampage shooting, psychiatric medications are always mentioned. However, very few are actually on them at the time of the crime.

Psychiatric Medications and School Shooter
http://www.schoolshooters.info/PL/Articles_files/Psychiatric Medications.pdf
 

BigCat

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In his manifesto,this profoundly struck me, as it relates to "addiction" allegations etc

I will quickly swallow all of the Xanax and Vicodin pills I have left

Typically,Addicts don't have drugs they are addicted to "left" (especially when experiecing high levels of depression, anxiety, rage etc- abuse increases in those states)

- it is a telling statement IMO

He had ankle surgery last year, according to his manifesto. His Vicodin pills could have been left over from post-op recovery. He certainly wasn't addicted if he had any left from 2013.

It's more difficult to say with the Xanax since it appeared he had a current prescription (that's what I gathered from the family's attorney's statement). He could have had his script refilled recently (perhaps that's why the "Day of Retribution" had to occur on a specific date). Or perhaps he combined it with alcohol or crushed the pills up and snorted them to make them last longer.

I'm guessing this friend who is the source for the "addicted" claim didn't give much thought to the word. He may have witnessed a real behavior change in ER after he began taking the Xanax, which could have been addiction or possibly abuse or just the side effects of taking the drug as prescribed. Who knows? Using that quote in the headline was poor judgement.

JMO
 

gajonka

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He had ankle surgery last year, according to his manifesto. His Vicodin pills could have been left over from post-op recovery. He certainly wasn't addicted if he had any left from 2013.

It's more difficult to say with the Xanax since it appeared he had a current prescription (that's what I gathered from the family's attorney's statement). He could have had his script refilled recently (perhaps that's why the "Day of Retribution" had to occur on a specific date). Or perhaps he combined it with alcohol or crushed the pills up and snorted them to make them last longer.

I'm guessing this friend who is the source for the "addicted" claim didn't give much thought to the word. He may have witnessed a real behavior change in ER after he began taking the Xanax, which could have been addiction or possibly abuse or just the side effects of taking the drug as prescribed. Who knows? Using that quote in the headline was poor judgement.

JMO

I wonder when we are going to hear from James Ellis, and a few other "childhood" friends of his. Appears ABC has the green-light to buy the interviews ( famous for the Casey Anthony defense/photos).

I recall someone close stating that "he could not believe/recognize that person - the one delivering the final day of retribution video narrative, as Elliot never spoke."

This is a kid who could not understand the theory of man and woman and relationships. His roomie, Horowitz? He had come to grips with it... the result of "you get what you look like" is something to that effect... (e.g.: a sloppy, beef jerky eating husky kid who plays video games all day, and smokes - that profile (person) would not ever be able to date a tanned, toned, tall, blonde, who is the second highest scorer on the girl's lacrosse team, dances ballet, is a vegan, and reads books, runs, and does yoga.

To some , these are the unfortunate facts of life.

One more:

An average sized male, who is attractive, plays sports, drives an OK car, is short (5.y, relatively speaking), has an incredible sense of humor, but no special talent, or hobby other than being a FAN of Ultimate Fighting championship and the local sports teams.

Will not mesh with

A blonde ( obvi, just keeping the hair color relevant), average height, zero sense of humor, no charisma, extremely attractive, no interests other than looking in the mirror and taking care of her body.

Rule Exception # 14-f-3
The male above may be able to get either of the aforementioned blondes if:
he is a talented musician ( the lyle Lovett rule)
etc...

Sorry if the rambling is diluting the message, is there is one (>)

Luv ya,
G
 

CARIIS

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"It's not about what’s in their hand; it’s about what’s in their mind,"


"If guns caused mental illness, then we would treat that; mental illness needs to be treated, and it is not.

...a man with a documented history of mental illness killed six people in Isla Vista, Calif."

..........the conversation has shifted away from changing firearm laws to reforming mental health programs.

the "severely mentally ill" so more people can get treatment before it is too late.

several key areas where federal mental health laws could be changed to improve care for the severely mentally ill who may be at risk of violent behavior.

.....psychiatric bed shortage

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...l-health-care-reform-help-stop-mass-killings/
 

CARIIS

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Elliot Roger didn't rely on just his three (legally obtained) guns .... He began the spasm of violence by rendering his two roommates and a visitor defenseless with hammer blows to the head. He is then believed to have slit their throats with a knife and a machete, just as he had outlined in his manifesto. Evidence bags bearing these three weapons were seen being carried from his apartment.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-dimond/another-massacre-another-_b_5455441.html
 
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