Discussion in 'Rampage Killings and Terrorist Attacks' started by Coldpizza, May 24, 2014.
Inside a two-bedroom beachside apartment, Elliot Rodger began his Santa Barbara rampage last month by mutilating his two roommates and their friend. The scene, police said, was horrific.
But there were few signs of a struggle, according to the victims’ parents. There was no blood on the walls or ceiling, and the confrontation between Rodger and the three other young men seemed to have been confined to a small space, the parents said based on a visit to the crime scene. They said evidence taken from the apartment makes them think that Rodger may have used a machete, knives and a hammer to kill their sons.
Lots of little tidbits in the Washington Post article linked above. This is just one that stood out to me:
"Even during their final moments, the Hong, Wang and Chen families said they believe the sheriffs department failed their sons. The parents said the apartment manager called 911 on the evening of May 23 after receiving a copy of the manifesto, in which Rodger said he planned to start by killing his roommates, and asked deputies to come to the complex. But the manager said no one entered the apartment until well after midnight, the parents said."
Sorry if this is a repeat and I haven't scrutinized this list, but here are possible murders/mass murderers who were on prescription meds. I am familiar with one of these cases, Christopher Pittman (sad story really). I also know that this has been and is being researched by some academics, especially drugs given to adolescents ... a professor from Iowa specifically that I know of, but can't think of her name off hand.
Here's just some of the true history of psychiatric drugs and mass murder:
* Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.
* Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
* Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
* Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
* Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
* Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
* Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
* Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
* A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
* Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
* A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
* Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
* TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
* Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
* James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
* Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
* Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) school shooting in El Cajon, California
* Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
* Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
* Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
* Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
* Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
* Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
* Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
* Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
* Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")
* Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)
* Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.
* Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
* Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
* Woody, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
* A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
* Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."
* Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
* Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
* Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School then he committed suicide.
* Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
* Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.
Missing from list... 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds....
* What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21... killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?
* What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado?
* What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?
* What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?
I definitely think this angle needs to be fully explored. It's the only variable that's really changed significantly, imo.
It is either that or violent media and I lean toward the Rx angle. Fighting that is going to be like fighting the tobacco lobby.
Also people go on psych drugs because they're mentally ill. And they go on and off of them in part because of their lack of insight due to their illness and in part because the stigma against there use. I think these people hurt others because of their illness. I've seen hundreds improve because of psych meds that would have never done so otherwise. I think links like this just continue the stigma of psychiatric illness treatment and further enhances the problem.
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If there's a link between children and teens going on killing rampages due to the side effects of drugs they're being prescribed, that needs to be addressed regardless of whether others are helped by the drugs.
Absolutely, and I hope that our government or other agencies are doing so. But these articles seem to strike fear and keep people that need these medications from wanting to take them. All the while further increasing their psychosis and possible violence. Thousands are on psych meds and yet a majority aren't violent. So many are helped with these meds, how many are not being helped by stigma alone? A lot has changed in society in the past 50 years other than psych meds. I hope all angles are being evaluated.
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Actually, I hope someone besides the gov't is looking at it. But that's another topic for another day. I'm not saying people need to be off psych meds. But if it's a cause of the increase in rampage school shootings, then that just needs to be acknowledged so we can bark up the right tree. Personally, I think the link between psych meds, their known side effects and the extremely dramatic increase in them being prescribed to children and teens is a really, really obvious place to start looking for answers.
An attorney for the three roommates Elliot Rodger stabbed to death alleges that Rodger used "a knife, a hammer, and a machete" in killing the three individuals on May 23.
According to the Los Angeles Times, Santa Barabara County Sheriff Bill Brown described the scene as "pretty horrific" and said Rodger's roommates had been "stabbed repeatedly with sharp objects."
While I have personal aggravations with SSRIs because I've been promised they'd do wonders so many times and they do absolutely nothing for me, I just don't think there's any big link. Maybe in some of those situations it was a contributing factor, but it's almost impossible to know whether that was due to their existing problems that led to such treatment or not. I know so many people who take SSRIs - it has to have gone way up since this controversy in the 1990s. I really think that as more people take them for more minor problems, that link seems to have gone away. It used to be that the most depressed or unstable people took SSRIs - now it's considered very safe for minor anxiety and depression problems, as well as more severe conditions. I think the link seemed more probable back then because these already very troubled kids had been prescribed these drugs, but today I'm sure there are dozens of kids in each school using them for anxiety and while school shooting seem like a daily occurrence, that's still a very, very small percentage of students using those drugs. It seems much more likely that these kids were just already unstable and the meds didn't help at all or enough - it is possible they could have aggravated the condition somewhat, but I have to believe these people were ticking time bombs.
A lot of these shooters weren't on any of these drugs recently - in fact, many people are arguing they should have been.
And Ritalin is really not a psych drug - it is a stimulant. While huge quantities of stimulants can make people violent, the average dose for a young person does not make somebody suddenly become a homicidal maniac. Someone who already had major issues might get a little more energy and confidence to carry it out, but it really is not as dangerous as is being portrayed here. Plus who knows if these kids were abusing prescriptions or mixing them with alcohol and illegal drugs.
I do have a controversial theory that for many severely mentally ill people who have issues with violence, illegal drugs keep them under control. While it can definitely make them violent if they use such drugs, drugs limit your focus such that the violence is usually limited to a fight over money for drugs or a domestic battery. I rarely hear about people on all sorts of illegal or even misused prescription drugs going on shooting sprees. The fact is, they need more than most SSRIs can provide - they need something really heavy and enjoyable, which is addictive and dangerous, but it keeps them from sitting around brooding about conspiracies. I've always believed a lot of severe drug addicts would have become very scary if they had not used drugs - not the majority, but I believe there is a significant subset of drug addicts who are desperately trying to quiet very scary mental issues.
Thanks for that list.
Just want to add that as I read down that list what stuck out to me was that fact that the people on that list all have/had something wrong before they were medicated. I can remember when my niece,(about age 7-8) was prescribed ritalin and how it (dumbed her down) that is my opinion as that is what it did to her. Fact is she was of the sort that she required more personal attention that teachers could spare. And yes it was at the teachers suggestion that she be medicated. Anyhow it was tough for my sister to put her on that chit. I can not imagine having to take my child to a dr because they need to be medicated. And if by chance my child committed a murder I don't know that I (personally)would be blaming the meds knowing that they had mental problems that required medication.idk jmo
It has been explained to me that SSRIs help people in part by helping them get out of the energy sinkhole of depression. It allows them to have the energy to get up and get actively involved in therapy. Whatever underlying personality or conditions people have, which are subdued by depression, come to surface when medicated (like an awakening.). So, if a person is suicidal, taking SSRIs can give the person the energy needed to kill themselves. If there is underlying anger and rage, it gives them energy to act on that. This is why, in my opinion, it is critical that anyone prescribed psychotropic meds is also actively engaged in therapy, and carefully screened before being prescribed, and monitored closely after starting it. The main purpose for SSRIs in my opinion, is to get the energy to do the work to get better... And eventually not need them anymore. That being said, I feel more confident in certain kinds, like Prozac, that have been studied for a long time. I am less confident in some of the newer kinds, and have heard from others that it caused intense obsessive thoughts of suicide in people who had no prior such thoughts. All my opinion
As I mentioned on another thread, I am seriously concerned about anyone under 24 taking SSRI's. Even the FDA has said it makes them suicidal, but it causes other problems also. I don't think it stigmatizes 'treatment' to scrutinize the drugs and their ill effects or to scrutinize psychiatric treatment that may not be appropriate due to the person's age, history, too high of a dosage, etc.
Thank you, I agree... as I said, I am familiar with Christopher Pitman's case. Some may want to look it up.
INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR ETHICAL PSYCHOLOGY AND PSYCHIATRY Statement on the Connection Between Psychotropic Drugs and Mass Murder
Virgin killer Elliot Rodger's film-director father to break silence in first interview with 'retired' Barbara Walters