CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

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enelram

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Why do you think this? If the Harts legally adopted all of these children, that would mean to me that none of their birth parents had any legal rights to anything.

Agree w/ you. All rights of birth parents were severed when adoption was granted.
 

LayzeeDayzee

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If she had been driving on the highway, was drunk, and ran off the side over the cliff, I'd say it could be accidental for sure.


But the way this happened, coming to full stop, then accelerating 70 feet towards the cliff, no braking----seems like it was on purpose. Drunk or not. JMO

We shouldn't assume she was drunk while driving. Perhaps she gave them all something to drink that was laced with large amounts of Diphenhydramine, with the intention of sedating them......then when they were sleeping, she sat there in the vehicle and downed alcohol until she was drunk and "had the nerve" to drive over the cliff.
 

PoirotryInMotion

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No need for apologies; the whole situation is confusing! Long Beach and Naselle aren't terribly far apart as the crow flies, but there is a 30-45 minute drive between them, depending on which way you go. But far enough that there would be different cell towers involved. (Totally OT, but Long Beach is a great walking beach, for people and dogs :) )

I just can't for the life of me figure out what they were doing in Naselle. I mean, maybe they just stopped there for gas, but why they were even in that area when they were headed south is ..... not logical.

Coupled with an apparent murder-suicide I still am left wondering if she drove the opposite direction first to dispose of two bodies. Again, thinking of the river there, which flows to the bay, and eventually out to the Pacific. From there, she'd simply continue on 101 west toward Long Beach, and then southward.

If someone were to plan on covering a slaying of two children in an abusive rage (a rage not inconceivable, as CPS showed up the same day DH had begged for food once again, and JH may have discovered what DH had been up to)--she could 'cover' it by letting people assume the whole family had been in that van when it went over the cliff. (I think the end hope was that it might be perceived as an accident, safeguarding her reputation to the end.) I do sense that the situation she was fleeing must've been more dire than simply another CPS investigation. And the abuser was going to have to pay in full this time. One does not drive their family off a cliff simply because CPS has come knocking.

Presuming the currently unidentified body is one of the 2 missing Hart girls, that leaves at least DH and one sister still missing. If the two missing had died Friday night, and their bodies were ditched in the *opposite* direction of the family van's apparent travel that weekend, that would also work towards the final reputation-saving goal. She may have thought it would be assumed the missing ones had been washed out to sea after the crash, and there would be no search for them. (Especially not in Washington state.)

Just a thought, and just another theory. I really am interested in knowing where SH's text came from; if they've established there was first a trip to Naselle that morning, seems they'd have had to leave Portland by 1:00am or 1:30am--certainly by 2:00am in order for the rest of the timeline pings to work out. So I'm not seeing that text originating from Portland, but rather, sent while they were already on the run.
 

Whiteorchids

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Diphenhydramine is the name of the drug. It's in many over the counter medicines. Unisom, Benadryl, Sominex, Banophen, Diphenhist, Aller G Time, Hydramine, Night time sleep aid, Pediacare Children's Allergy, Alka Seltzer Plus Allergy, Vicks ZZZ Quil Night time sleep, Nytol, etc.. there's many products that contain it. It's not important the product it was in, so the tests look for diphenhydramine, not each product that contains it.

It can be used for allergies, for sleep, for motion sickness. We don't know what it was used for, maybe a legitimate need, nor the dosage. They could have been given massive amounts for sedation, but it could have been for allergies at a regular dose.

The kids may have been using Benadryl prior for allergies so much pollen in the air here. Lots of peeps including my son has always taken it for his allergies.

I wonder if Jen was a closet alcoholic maybe she had been drinking after CPS left that day before everything spiraled out of of control. Maybe she kept a bottle hidden under her seat or somewhere else in the car. Got drunk after everyone fell asleep.

It seems more than none alcohol and domestic abuse goes hand in hand. Some alcoholics get really mean when they drink
 

human

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We shouldn't assume she was drunk while driving. Perhaps she gave them all something to drink that was laced with large amounts of Diphenhydramine, with the intention of sedating them......then when they were sleeping, she sat there in the vehicle and downed alcohol until she was drunk and "had the nerve" to drive over the cliff.

It could be, but are there liquor containers that have been found?

Did she bring the supplies from home? The booze and the drugs?

Did they drug the children often?

I cannot imagine that there was not horror once the evidence of CPS being there was found. They could explain the food issues away. Poor traumatized kids with food issues. Just look at their birth! They were small and skinny because of their in utero. It was said by people right on this site so seems like it would be a believable explanation.

They had time to train the kids on an explanation. These “mothers” knew that what they were doing was wrong or they would not lie and run in order to hide it.

Did Sarah take the drug knowing why she was taking it? Or did Jen say they were taking it to sleep in the car because a hotel was too expensive? Why not camp? Is it too cold there?

What rational reason is there for CPS to leave a card at the home of a potential abuser?
 

mtnlites

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The kids may have been using Benadryl prior for allergies so much pollen in the air here. Lots of peeps including my son has always taken it for his allergies.

I wonder if Jen was a closet alcoholic maybe she had been drinking after CPS left that day before everything spiraled out of of control. Maybe she kept a bottle hidden under her seat or somewhere else in the car. Got drunk after everyone fell asleep.

It seems more than none alcohol and domestic abuse goes hand in hand. Some alcoholics get really mean when they drink

Yeah, we really have no idea what the Benedryl was used for. My kids use it for allergies as well, although they also take it for car rides because they're prone to motion sickness. Until they release how much was in their systems, we don't know if it was a basic therapeutic level or not.
 

RickyKid

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I've been quietly following this case, but I've clearly missed quite a few things. I saw some mention of a "rough year" post Jen made in June 2017 - is there a link to that post, or can someone paraphrase? Thanks in advance!
 

Breamworthy

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Just a thought, and just another theory. I really am interested in knowing where SH's text came from; if they've established there was first a trip to Naselle that morning, seems they'd have had to leave Portland by 1:00am or 1:30am--certainly by 2:00am in order for the rest of the timeline pings to work out. So I'm not seeing that text originating from Portland, but rather, sent while they were already on the run.

My understanding is they no longer lived in Portland but rural Washington state. On google maps, it looks like Naselle is about 1.5 hours from their home.
 

PearlClutcher

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I'm curious as to the plans for the kids futures. Markis was already an adult, yet it appears that he didn't work and wasn't pursuing a higher education outside of the home. Maybe he was doing some type of online training/education.

They couldn't remain kids forever. The children would have to move on with their lives eventually.
 

human

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I'm curious as to the plans for the kids futures. Markis was already an adult, yet it appears that he didn't work and wasn't pursuing a higher education outside of the home. Maybe he was doing some type of online training/education.

They couldn't remain kids forever. The children would have to move on with their lives eventually.

And the lo$$ of $$$$$. Was it in their plans to get more kid$ when the$e aged out?

Although it looks like they did things with the kids and bought them clothes. Food, maybe not so much.

Coincidentally, the things the kids loved to do such as go to political rallies and music festivals were exactly what the “moms” liked to do.

Luckily the kids did not want friends or other kinds of activities. What are the odds! Amazing!
 

smiley

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The never completed the proper paperwork to home school the children in WA or OR. None of then would have been able to get a diploma. As far as I can see the children had no interactions with other children their age, sports, scouts, church. Just their family and the festivals/rallys they would go to
 

PearlClutcher

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Yep, those kids were now teenagers and probably wanted to spread their wings. Wanted to experience other things perhaps. Oftentimes, kids start to rebel a bit as teenagers because they want to experience independence and want to make their own choices. Lack of freedom can really feel like abuse too.

It's possible that Jen and Sarah could have perceived this as being ungrateful instead of typical teenage behavior. So the kids going to neighbors and CPS getting involved just could not be tolerated. MOO
 

gcharlie

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A picture of Hannah from September 2011, before she lost her front teeth, showing a very bright smile.

hart.jpg
 

Snflowertown

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Just of couple of observations. I searched the board but didn't find comments on this:
Safeway checkout: I noticed that the cashiers were in the middle of changing shifts. I see a hand with a scan badge and register drawers. So that means there were 2 cashiers observing her that were probably interviewed. I also noticed the clerk had something on the scanner and seemed to be pushing keys which means it was something that she was punching in the code for the weight. So maybe it was bananas and some type of fruit/produce.

I wondered how computer savvy the kids were. Obviously, they didnt have phones but with them being around people at festivals I am sure those people had smart phones and Devonte and the others could see what could be done with just an ordinary cell phone.

Why did he on the last day ask if they called? He could have just ask to use the cell phone and call as opposed to asking or telling them.

Jen/Sarah had to have a way to upload videos so they did have an internet connection or data plan. And then there was mention that the police confiscated computers in the house. It is possible they had no internet on those computers but even if there was access I am sure the kids would have figured it out.
 

waschbaer

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I'm curious as to the plans for the kids futures. Markis was already an adult, yet it appears that he didn't work and wasn't pursuing a higher education outside of the home. Maybe he was doing some type of online training/education.

They couldn't remain kids forever. The children would have to move on with their lives eventually.

Curious about something...Markis was 19. When was the next oldest due to turn 18 and become a legal adult? I have a hunch it may have something to do with why things exploded when they did.
 

Blue5591

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A picture of Hannah from September 2011, before she lost her front teeth, showing a very bright smile.

View attachment 132911
Wow, the lumps on Markis face are huge in this photo. Also curious why a few of the kids are wearing sunglasses. Most kids dont like them


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

gcharlie

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Curious about something...Markis was 19. When was the next oldest due to turn 18 and become a legal adult? I have a hunch it may have something to do with why things exploded when they did.

Abigail was the next oldest. Her birthday was in December, so she would have hit 18 in December 2019.

Devonte was next. Born October 2002.

Jeremiah born March 2004.
 

katydid23

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I'm curious as to the plans for the kids futures. Markis was already an adult, yet it appears that he didn't work and wasn't pursuing a higher education outside of the home. Maybe he was doing some type of online training/education.

They couldn't remain kids forever. The children would have to move on with their lives eventually.

The never completed the proper paperwork to home school the children in WA or OR. None of then would have been able to get a diploma. As far as I can see the children had no interactions with other children their age, sports, scouts, church. Just their family and the festivals/rallys they would go to

Yep, those kids were now teenagers and probably wanted to spread their wings. Wanted to experience other things perhaps. Oftentimes, kids start to rebel a bit as teenagers because they want to experience independence and want to make their own choices. Lack of freedom can really feel like abuse too.

It's possible that Jen and Sarah could have perceived this as being ungrateful instead of typical teenage behavior. So the kids going to neighbors and CPS getting involved just could not be tolerated. MOO

It is really sad the way they isolated those wonderful kids, preventing them from becoming individuals and blocking them from making friends.

All of the homeschooling families I have known made sure that their kids had a lot of opportunities to meet and develop friendships with others. Most played organized sports, or did group hobbies or scouts or joined marching band, or church youth groups etc. Developing friendships with peers is of primary importance, in my opinion.

And it is a form of abuse, as far as I am concerned, to block those kinds of relationships. Teenagers NEED to rebel and find some independence.

As painful as it might be for us parents during that time, when we see that our kids would rather take their advice from their peers about fashion and relationships, and would rather spend their free time chillin with their friends than us....
 

gcharlie

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Wow, the lumps on Markis face are huge in this photo. Also curious why a few of the kids are wearing sunglasses. Most kids dont like them


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Yeah, since someone first called attention to the lumps on Markis's jaw in the Bernie rally pictures, I've paid more attention to his jaw. This was a chronic condition that extended back for years.

Certainly he should have had specialty medical care for this, just as Abigail should have been under specialty care for her diminutive size.
 
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