CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

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Snflowertown

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This video on YT is the raw interview of the DeKalbs and noticed a few comments:
-The wife says that she went over to talk about sharing the driveway and that Jen was not friendly. That she had the feeling of "evil"
-The wife said that Devonte said that his parents only wanted them to believe that about Hannah that night and that they 'his parents' lied and told them what they wanted them to know. He said that everything that Hannah said was true.
-The husband said the girl tried to go to the other neighbor on the other side and they had a locked gate that night.
-Devonte only came out to feed the chickens, take out trash and rake the yard. That they tried to talk with him before and he didn't talk.


If the kids approached these next-door neighbors, is it possible they approached other neighbors for food in this location or previous states?
Are we to assume that Devonte used the time of the chores to sneak over to the neighbors house while the other kids distracted jen/sarah? You would think the oldest male child would have been doing the heavier outdoor chores?
Was the oldest son developmentally delayed do you think? It is something about the look in his eyes.
 

HeidiTX232

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Why do you think this? If the Harts legally adopted all of these children, that would mean to me that none of their birth parents have any legal rights to anything. These poor children were obviously all placed for adoption for a reason. If your kids are placed for adoption, IMO you have no further rights to anything, surely not to profit from their deaths.
Right. Legally, biofamilybis no more related to the kids than I am. Obviously, no one would suggest I should profit from their deaths.

I do think that this is an opportunity to consider carefully changes that need to be made in the system. I don’t know that I think any of those changes had anything to do with this biological family though. IMO, CPS did what they were supposed to in regards to the bioparents and the aunt. Whether there was other biological family or something else they should have done regarding the children and especially the Harts is another consideration though.
 

indicajane

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I don’t think the parents really had to “hide” the kid’s obvious malnutrition from the folks at festivals/social gatherings.

They just told everyone they were crack babies, and they had saved them...in passing that would probably explain any comparisons to “normally” maturing children.

Perfect disguise.


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rosemadderlake

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March 23, 2018: A social worker for the Washington State Department of Social and Health Services attempts to make contact with the family, after a neighbor files a complaint alleging the children were potential victims of abuse or neglect.
March 24, 2018: Cellphone pings indicate the family was in the area of Newport, Oregon about 8:05 a.m.
March 24, 2018: The Harts reach Fort Bragg about 8 p.m.
March 25, 2018: A man is believed to have spotted the Hart family at a knick-knack shop along the highway near Fort Bragg, about 20 miles south of their eventual crash site. Authorities believe they left Fort Bragg at 9 p.m.
March 26, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services again attempts to contact the family at its home in Woodside, Washington.
March 26, 2018: The family’s wrecked SUV is spotted by a passing motorist at the bottom of a cliff below a Highway 1 turnout, north of Westport.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8187320-181/hart-family-timeline-where-was


Preliminary toxicology tests found Jennifer Hart had an alcohol level of 0.102, said California Patrol Capt. Bruce Carpenter. California drivers are considered drunk with a level of 0.08 or higher.

Toxicology tests also found that her wife Sarah Hart and two of their children had "a significant amount" of an ingredient commonly found in the allergy drug Benadryl, which can make people sleepy. Toxicology results for a third child killed are still pending, Carpenter said.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...sh-woman-drunk-drove-suv-off-cliff/516669002/

---

In trying to piece together the Harts route, it looks like their trip spans 2 1/2 days, 3/23 - 3/25.

I guess cell phone pings indicate authorities believe they left Ft Bragg at 9pm Sunday evening 3/25. Imo- Car goes off the cliff sometime that night and is found next afternoon Monday 3/26.

So, what is new is the trip NW to Naselle WA, and Sarah's 3am text before they hit Newport Oregon at 8am Saturday 3/24.

Bbm: prelim tox findings: a "significant amount" of benadryl. Is it possible to keep everyone heavily drugged for two days? I kind of have my doubts. Would they have been drugged for the whole time? It would seem inconsistent with purchasing bananas on Sunday morning 8 am 3/25.

Friday 3/23 - Do we know what time they left the house in Woodland? If they left in the early evening, it might point to visiting someone that evening, dropping off the dogs?

But if they left in the middle of the night, why would they go there?
 

Mariposa

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So sad that Jen and Sarah probably didn't take into consideration that they also rebelled in their teenage years. I am sure that they valued their freedom during those years especially having the freedom to choose whom they wanted to love. These kids couldn't even experience teenage puppy love. Jen and Sarah denied their children the basic freedoms for which they themselves protested.

Great insight. I'm sure it was challenging growing up gay in small town South Dakota in the 1990s. Jen and Sarah apparently detached pretty definitively from their own families. Then denied their own kids even age appropriate freedoms from an overbearing and smothering family 'tribe'.
 

bears10

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I'm curious as to the plans for the kids futures. Markis was already an adult, yet it appears that he didn't work and wasn't pursuing a higher education outside of the home. Maybe he was doing some type of online training/education.

They couldn't remain kids forever. The children would have to move on with their lives eventually.

I wondered the same about the turpins. What was the end game? The oldest was 30 or 31, what was the plan?
 

LonelyChild

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This video on YT is the raw interview of the DeKalbs and noticed a few comments:
-The wife says that she went over to talk about sharing the driveway and that Jen was not friendly. That she had the feeling of "evil"
-The wife said that Devonte said that his parents only wanted them to believe that about Hannah that night and that they 'his parents' lied and told them what they wanted them to know. He said that everything that Hannah said was true.
-The husband said the girl tried to go to the other neighbor on the other side and they had a locked gate that night.
-Devonte only came out to feed the chickens, take out trash and rake the yard. That they tried to talk with him before and he didn't talk.


If the kids approached these next-door neighbors, is it possible they approached other neighbors for food in this location or previous states?
Are we to assume that Devonte used the time of the chores to sneak over to the neighbors house while the other kids distracted jen/sarah? You would think the oldest male child would have been doing the heavier outdoor chores?
Was the oldest son developmentally delayed do you think? It is something about the look in his eyes.
I dont think Markis was developmentally delayed however if he is I think it has to do with the moms not exposing the kids enough to the world. I mean these children were teenager but still it seemed they lived the lofe of 8 - 10 year olds at 12, 14, 15, 16 and 19. IMO

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gcharlie

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So, when this investigation is over, what are the things you want to know to be able to piece together what family life might have been like for these kids on a day to day basis?

I'l start with:

  • Are there medical and dental records showing that these kids got proper and regular health care?
  • Did the autopsy results show any broken bones, now healed, that did not get medical attention by referencing medical records?
  • Were any chronic conditions noted in autopsy reports?
  • Were any of the kids on medication?
  • Are there educational evaluations available for any of the children?
  • What kind of home schooling materials and records were found at the home?
  • Did anyone in the family keep journals?
  • Were there any unusual locks found in the home, such as on the bedroom doors?
  • Did the home have a TV?
  • Is there any evidence that the kids were able to, and did, use computers?
  • Based on spending records and food supplies found in the home, were the kids adequately fed?
  • How often did the family go out since they moved to Woodland WA?
  • Where did the family shop for groceries when they moved to Woodland? Who did the shopping, and did any kids come along?
  • Did the family ever use the local library? If so, who went to the library?
  • What were the normal things found in a house with 6 kids, almost all of whom were teens?
  • What were the unusual things found, or not found, in a house with 6 kids, almost all of whom were teen?
  • How much clothing was found for each family member?
  • What alcoholic beverages and medications were found in the home?
  • Did anyone in the family form relationships with people in Woodland?
 

Lilibet

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According to Oregonlive.com, a woman's body was found yesterday in the area of the two crashes. assumptions are

that it's the mother in the other crash of 4 family members that crashed nearby this week. they also found contents of

the car, in the water, that a family would have if on vacation.

I think you’re talking about the car that crashed into the Eel River, inland and further north in Mendocino County. Such a tragedy, and clearly an accident.

http://kymkemp.com/2018/04/13/searchers-found-body-of-one-from-missing/

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...nt-12-Saachi-Thottapilly-9-Klamath-5-Apr-2018
 

CantStopWontStop

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March 23, 2018: A social worker for the Washington State Department of Social and Health Services attempts to make contact with the family, after a neighbor files a complaint alleging the children were potential victims of abuse or neglect.
March 24, 2018: Cellphone pings indicate the family was in the area of Newport, Oregon about 8:05 a.m.
March 24, 2018: The Harts reach Fort Bragg about 8 p.m.
March 25, 2018: A man is believed to have spotted the Hart family at a knick-knack shop along the highway near Fort Bragg, about 20 miles south of their eventual crash site. Authorities believe they left Fort Bragg at 9 p.m.
March 26, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services again attempts to contact the family at its home in Woodside, Washington.
March 26, 2018: The family’s wrecked SUV is spotted by a passing motorist at the bottom of a cliff below a Highway 1 turnout, north of Westport.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8187320-181/hart-family-timeline-where-was


Preliminary toxicology tests found Jennifer Hart had an alcohol level of 0.102, said California Patrol Capt. Bruce Carpenter. California drivers are considered drunk with a level of 0.08 or higher.

Toxicology tests also found that her wife Sarah Hart and two of their children had "a significant amount" of an ingredient commonly found in the allergy drug Benadryl, which can make people sleepy. Toxicology results for a third child killed are still pending, Carpenter said.

https://www.statesmanjournal.com/st...sh-woman-drunk-drove-suv-off-cliff/516669002/

---

In trying to piece together the Harts route, it looks like their trip spans 2 1/2 days, 3/23 - 3/25.

I guess cell phone pings indicate authorities believe they left Ft Bragg at 9pm Sunday evening 3/25. Imo- Car goes off the cliff sometime that night and is found next afternoon Monday 3/26.

So, what is new is the trip NW to Naselle WA, and Sarah's 3am text before they hit Newport Oregon at 8am Saturday 3/24.

Bbm: prelim tox findings: a "significant amount" of benadryl. Is it possible to keep everyone heavily drugged for two days? I kind of have my doubts. Would they have been drugged for the whole time? It would seem inconsistent with purchasing bananas on Sunday morning 8 am 3/25.

Friday 3/23 - Do we know what time they left the house in Woodland? If they left in the early evening, it might point to visiting someone that evening, dropping off the dogs?

But if they left in the middle of the night, why would they go there?

The Goonies movie, the house filmed in the movie— they were photographed in front of, 28 minutes away.
 

Stunned

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She had big beautiful teeth like the other kids! Wow, so sad!

Markis looks really bad here, poor thing. Those lumps are shocking and his teeth look so buck that they seem like they may have hindered normal function and caused pain. If they did not have him in treatment for that, then we can add one more charge of abuse IMO.
Too me, this is probably the most disturbing picture of the kids.
 

Zelda1010

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I don’t think the parents really had to “hide” the kid’s obvious malnutrition from the folks at festivals/social gatherings.

They just told everyone they were crack babies, and they had saved them...in passing that would probably explain any comparisons to “normally” maturing children.

Perfect disguise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just watched a Nahko video. He is all lithe with muscle and skin and bone. And these crowds appear to be largely white, eccentric and accepting yes, and mixed races to some extent, but largely white imho.

There is some interesting info out there about eyewitnesses being better able to describe a person of their own race. To really see nuances that others might miss.

In this age of rail thin models on the pages of magazines, were enough folks able to look and just see beautiful, smiling kids laughing and dancing in public and on Jen's social media?

The more I look into this histrionic type of personality, I think it fits Jen to a T and it extended to/manifested with her kids/relationship. In my humble and uneducated opinion.
 

HeidiTX232

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So I want to say upfront that IF the Harts knew of what I’m going to say, it seems more likely to me that they would use it to cover their tears than using it wholeheartedly for the best interests of the children.

1) many times kids “from hard places” are a bit behind socially, even developmentally. So the 10yo seems 6 or the 19yo seems 14. So it may be that kids weren’t dating, going to college, driving, etc simply because they weren’t ready yet.

2) many times kids “from hard places” need rules that seem odd to the average person. Their intimacy with others, their relationship with food, etc can all be skewed so rules keep them safe and keep healthy boundaries until the child shows they can follow normal patterns of behavior in their own.

3) many times, it is encouraged to parents of kids “from hard places” to keep their world small. Homeschooling, limited friendships, not doing certain activities all help kids develop healthy familiar relationships, keep anxiety lower, help minimize behaviors, etc.

4) there are studies that show family socialization to be what really shapes a person socially. You have healthy role models from your parents and older siblings. You teach younger siblings. You have your best friends often within a family. Of course, it’s not the ONLY socialization suggested. Normally, people would have people they did things with, hung around at least semi-regularly, could go to when they need help, etc. But generally, school type socialization isn’t “real world” nor the healthiest version.

5) discipline for kids from hard places looks different. Sometimes it may appear we are too lenient or making excuses. Sometimes people wonder why we put up with certain things. But many times, we are ultra consistent, have clearly drawn lines, and hope the child feels more secure with knowing the boundaries. And if those boundaries do bend, our child may not be able to understand that this was a special circumstance. So bedtime is at X every single night without fail. A kid may NEVER get a sofa. They may only be allowed to hug people with their last name. They must hold mama’s shirt tail in public. Whatever.

For an adoptive child, especially one born addicted to drugs, who had several homes, who experienced neglect and abuse, homeschooling, a small world, strange rules, strict (not harsh!) discipline, recognizing they are a little behind developmentally may be extra helpful.

I think my biggest thought regarding this is to encourage people to know that this is encouraged TO SOME DEGREE to adoptive families. Don’t jump to heavily on the idea that we are all hiding something if we are doing some/all of these things.

Again, maybe the Harts heard some of these things and ran with it. Or maybe they used them as excuses to go too far with it all. Or maybe they never did any research and were clueless on top of abusive.

I just wanted to share some things you might not know about.
 

Stunned

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I just watched a Nahko video. He is all lithe with muscle and skin and bone. And these crowds appear to be largely white, eccentric and accepting yes, and mixed races to some extent, but largely white imho.

There is some interesting info out there about eyewitnesses being better able to describe a person of their own race. To really see nuances that others might miss.

In this age of rail thin models on the pages of magazines, were enough folks able to look and just see beautiful, smiling kids laughing and dancing in public and on Jen's social media?

The more I look into this histrionic type of personality, I think it fits Jen to a T and it extended to/manifested with her kids/relationship. In my humble and uneducated opinion.
Yes, they saved these kids.

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rosemadderlake

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The Goonies movie, the house filmed in the movie— they were photographed in front of, 28 minutes away.

So, possibly there is a friend / connection from that area? Is this the area where the Goonie festival, and kids in costumes, where the outdoor screening of the film was shown?
 

goldenbear

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The LE station wherethis happened is very small. Their resources are very limited. They have to request people from other places to make a search. Because of this I am unsure they are able to make reports on weekend days.
 

PoirotryInMotion

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My understanding is they no longer lived in Portland but rural Washington state. On google maps, it looks like Naselle is about 1.5 hours from their home.

Good point, thx for the reminder. :) It's a bit of an approximation, time-wise, because we don't know how long they spent at Naselle, but sounds like the drive there should be 30 minutes, less, at least. Adjusting my timeline theory accordingly.

Still thinking (if my theory is correct at all) that they were likely on the road before that 3 AM text from SH to her friend CH. Based on the approximate Newport and Fort Bragg pings/arrivals. Going back to study the timeline a bit.
 

K_Z

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Regarding lawsuits and insurance settlements, etc-- as others have stated, it is true that the bio parents have no further legal claims to anything related to any of the Hart children. It appears that Jen legally adopted the first set of siblings, and subsequently became legally married to Sarah. We don't know (yet) if Sarah either legally adopted any/ all of the kids as a second parent, or became their legal parent by virtue of her marriage to Jen.

So the best I can tell is that with no surviving children, and both spouses deceased, the next of kin for the children's final arrangements will be Jen and/ or Sarah's parents. If that is legally true, they "could" work voluntarily with the bio parents as to the bio mom's stated desire in the interview to have the kids buried in Texas near her. However, the next of kin (Jen's parents, and/or Sarah's parents) have no obligation legally to work with the Texas bio mom, or to communicate with her or any of the TX bio relatives.

Texas bio-relatives have no standing to sue any insurance companies for any money related to the crash. They have no standing legally to bring any kind of wrongful death suit, either.

Severing of parental rights, particularly in cases like this, is quite a lengthy legal process, with many interdisciplinary layers, and not undertaken for frivolous matters, or one time "mistakes".
 

human

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Great insight. I'm sure it was challenging growing up gay in small town South Dakota in the 1990s. Jen and Sarah apparently detached pretty definitively from their own families. Then denied their own kids even age appropriate freedoms from an overbearing and smothering family 'tribe'.

Looking on Sarah’s mother’s FB, she looks like she would be very accepting. Maybe the family did not approve of the harsh way the kids were treated
 

PearlClutcher

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Still thinking (if my theory is correct at all) that they were likely on the road before that 3 AM text from SH to her friend CH. Based on the approximate Newport and Fort Bragg pings/arrivals. Going back to study the timeline a bit.


So that might indicate that the text from Sarah was just to let Cheryl know that she wasn't going to be at work perhaps? The friend, Cheryl Hart, could be a co-worker as well.
 
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