CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

[Sillybilly]

Please do not bring race into the discussion. There is no established fact in this case to support speculation that race is an issue in the crime.

:wave:

 

[katydid23]

If the dose of Benedryl was lethal and it was given to the family the first night of travel, it would explain why no one saw the children. Their bodies would have been in the car the entire time.

I don't think the women gave the teens a lethal dosage of benadryl. I think they would throw up and be very ill, but would not die immediately.

I say that only because my friend/neighbor and her husband accidentally gave their 10 yr old way too much benadryl. Both the wife and the husband were giving their child his allergy meds, not realizing the other parent was doing so also. When they figured it out they rushed him to the emergency room and were told that it takes about 10 or 20 x the normal amount to make a child seriously ill.


I think the kids were given the benadryl to make them sleepy.

ETA:

Recently, Winnipeg paramedics had to rush a 16-year-old boy to hospital after he took 20 capsules or 500 milligrams of Benadryl.
"He was hallucinating, he was delusional," said the boy's mother, who did not want to be identified. "He was so out of control, to the point he had to be restrained."

"If you take too much or take it in combination with alcohol, it can depress the body too much, to the point you go into a coma and die,” said Sheri Fandrey from the AFM.
https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/mom-says-teen-nearly-died-from-allergy-medication-overdose-1.1503133

 

[mtnlites]

I am not sure one can give teens a lethal dosage of benadryl. I think they would throw up and be very ill, but would not die immediately.

I say that only because my friend/neighbor and her husband accidentally gave their 10 yr old way too much benadryl. Both the wife and the husband were giving their child his allergy meds, not realizing the other parent was doing so also. When they figured it out they rushed him to the emergency room and were told that it takes about 10 or 20 x the normal amount to make a child seriously ill.


I think the kids were given the benadryl to make them sleepy.

ETA:

Recently, Winnipeg paramedics had to rush a 16-year-old boy to hospital after he took 20 capsules or 500 milligrams of Benadryl.
"He was hallucinating, he was delusional," said the boy's mother, who did not want to be identified. "He was so out of control, to the point he had to be restrained."

"If you take too much or take it in combination with alcohol, it can depress the body too much, to the point you go into a coma and die,” said Sheri Fandrey from the AFM.
https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/mom-says-teen-nearly-died-from-allergy-medication-overdose-1.1503133

Benedryl does pose toxicity threats to infant and younger children but, as you speculated, it's almost impossible to actually kill someone on its own. You would need at least 2 grams of it. 850 mg is considered a level that might cause cardiac problems but, considering that most pills are 25-50 mg, you'd be looking at 17-34 tablets or something-and that's still no guaranty that they wouldn't throw them up. Benedryl is mostly lethal when it's mixed with another drug, like an opioid, that has an effect on the central nervous system.

I don't think Benedryl was used to kill the children but I could definitely go along with the idea that it was used to put them to sleep.

 

[katydid23]

Benedryl does pose toxicity threats to infant and younger children but, as you speculated, it's almost impossible to actually kill someone on its own. You would need at least 2 grams of it. 850 mg is considered a level that might cause cardiac problems but, considering that most pills are 50 mg, you'd be looking at 17 tablets or something-and that's still no guaranty that they wouldn't throw them up. Benedryl is mostly lethal when it's mixed with another drug, like an opioid, that has an effect on the central nervous system.

I don't think Benedryl was used to kill the children but I could definitely go along with the idea that it was used to put them to sleep.

And I believe that if the tox screening showed 20x the normal dosage, the report would have stated that and said it could have been enough to be fatal.

 

[fridaybaker]

I think he looks particularly bad, to me, in this photo. His lips are paler than his face!?! I wish they were stained slightly purple from all the delicious blackberries. I don't know if he is hunched over to be close to his sister or...? His arms are all skin & bone & sinew. His eyes seem very far away and sad, to me.

I know the post that accompanied this says M "let" Jen take the pic, but I interpreted that to mean he cooperated with her directions that day and the resulting photo was deemed "acceptable" for posting. Smdh.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/deadly_hart_family_crash_may_h.html

To my eye, there are no two ways about it: They are all quite, quite thin!

 

[babyblujems]

Something that's not making sense to me is earlier I was thinking this might've been done to save their reputations. Make it look like an accident. JH and/or SH might not have known about a black box on their vehicle (I didn't know till this case), but they had to know bodies would be autopsied when located. So there would be proof it likely was not an accidental run off a cliff. I'm wondering if whatever they were running from would've cost them more than public humiliation and the kids being taken away, it would've been more like prison for one or both of them?

You know, I've been thinking it doesn't quite fit her narrative as well. It really makes me go back to them potentially harming one or all the missing children and running because of it.

 

[mtnlites]

I've seen a lot of comments on how nice the kids' teeth are and how they must have had dental care (with the exception of Hannah), but I'm wondering if Jen could've edited those photos to make them look commercial-worthy.

If you zoom in on each of their mouths, Sierra seems to have something going on in the right side of her mouth, though it's hard to make out. On Markis, his very last tooth on the right looks far darker than the rest of his teeth. Devonte's very last tooth on the right looks darker too. I also noticed he appears to have some sort of sore or maybe a split lip on the left side of his bottom lip.

Please feel free to call me out if I'm just seeing things.

To me, their teeth look great. We could nitpick on slight imperfections but I think, overall, they're pretty fantastic looking teeth. I live in an area in which dental care is almost nonexistent. Our state is constantly getting "picked on" for having either the worst, or one of the worst, teeth. (Many people in my state don't have dental insurance and, those that do, don't have great coverage. It's mostly down to once a year cleanings, fillings, and simply extractions.) I've seen my share of "bad" teeth and I'd take a mouth full of almost any of the Harts' kids.

With that being said, don't take my words as being defensive of the Hart mothers. It's possible that the kids just had good genetics for their teeth; the state of their teeth doesn't necessarily mean that they got good dental care.

 

[changeindeed]

If she had been driving on the highway, was drunk, and ran off the side over the cliff, I'd say it could be accidental for sure.


But the way this happened, coming to full stop, then accelerating 70 feet towards the cliff, no braking----seems like it was on purpose. Drunk or not. JMO

My thoughts? She stopped only to be sure everyone (else) was unbuckled, and to drop off the phone so that they could be found in case the car was not spotted. (find my phone app, gps) just moo

 

[janewall]

The very last thing the two adult Harts tried to do was to raise up children to be healthy, happy, independent human individuals. The silencing and ultimate extinguishing of these six vibrant, potential-filled youngsters breaks my heart, and the betrayal they suffered from the legal and child welfare system, which never bothered to listen to them or to assess their inability to thrive in an adoptive placement, absolutely enrages me. Alarms were sounded, repeatedly, but no agency bothered to look beyond the glib words of the ‘saviors’ to whom these youngsters were entrusted, and investigate what their ‘salvation’ consisted of, exactly.

Not one article I have read about the Harts even mentions any of the six children’s individual personalities, achievements, or interests. The only child we have learned anything at all about is Devonte, the family’s golden child, apparently chosen by his moms to be the family’s designated ‘star’ – and we know something of the individual he was not because of the famously staged photo op he was subject to, but through his genuinely heroic efforts to find help and food for himself and his siblings. This family was all about its adult members and their carefully curated public image, an image maintained through the performance skills of their harshly trained troupe of coerced young actors.

Please credit the author of this comment, which was first posted on Medium in response to an article about white savior behavior by the Hart adults. https://medium.com/@DeepGreenPhilly...ite-gaze-the-hart-family-tragedy-bb02416bb0ad

 

[NicoleH]

To me, their teeth look great. We could nitpick on slight imperfections but I think, overall, they're pretty fantastic looking teeth. I live in an area in which dental care is almost nonexistent. Our state is constantly getting "picked on" for having either the worst, or one of the worst, teeth. (Many people in my state don't have dental insurance and, those that do, don't have great coverage. It's mostly down to once a year cleanings, fillings, and simply extractions.) I've seen my share of "bad" teeth and I'd take a mouth full of almost any of the Harts' kids.

With that being said, don't take my words as being defensive of the Hart mothers. It's possible that the kids just had good genetics for their teeth; the state of their teeth doesn't necessarily mean that they got good dental care.

Oh no, I hope I didnt come across as nitpicking the kids. They are beautiful. I just know Jen seems to have a tendency toward perfectionism, so I just wondered if she could be editing them to look perfect. Not important in the big picture. I edit my teeth sometimes too, if we're being perfectly honest.

 

[KaaBoom]

The Harts fostered another girl named Lee before they adopted the Hart siblings.
Sorry, I don't have a link...maybe someone else does, though

OK, thanks, added.

March 2004: Earliest known public record that shows Jennifer Hart and Sarah Gengler, both from South Dakota, residing in Alexandria, Minnesota.

Summer 2004: The Harts take in a foster child named Lee. Then they later abandoned her the next Spring after they dropped her off at a therapist’s appointment, never to see her again.

May 2005: Sarah Hart petitions to change her last name from Gengler to Hart.

September 2006: Jennifer and Sarah Hart adopt siblings Markis, Abigail and Hannah.

September 2008: According to a police report from Alexandria, Minnesota, Hannah, then 6, tells authorities that one of her mothers bruised her with a belt. Asked about the beating, Jennifer and Sarah Hart tell a police investigator and social worker the girl had fallen down the stairs.

February 2009: Jennifer and Sarah adopt Devonte and two of his siblings — bringing their number of children to six. An article from Paper Trail, a New Zealand-based news outlet, describes his adoption. The article said by age 4, the boy had been abused, neglected, shot at and had endured other traumas.

November 2010: Police in Alexandria, Minnesota interview Abigail Hart, 6 at the time, after a teacher discovers bruises stretching from her sternum to her navel. The girl says Jennifer Hart hit her with a closed fist, put her head in a cold bath, then hit her again, court records show. She was then grounded, the girl told police, which meant she had to stay in bed and miss lunch.

December 2010: Alexandria, MN home listed for sale.

April 2011: Sarah Hart pleads guilty to abusing Abigail Hart and is sentenced to a year of probation for misdemeanor domestic assault, court records show. Sarah told police she was the one who hit Abigail, even though the girl told authorities her mother Jennifer had done it. The next day, all six of the Hart children are taken out of public schools. They never attend public school again.

October 2011: The family lives in Alexandria, Minnesota, for a time and takes part in local activism. Hart family members including Devonte and Jennifer Hart participate in an Occupy Minneapolis demonstration.

2012: According to friends in Oregon, Sarah Hart travels to Portland to look for work. Jennifer Hart and their children later join her. Hannah loses front teeth after allegedly falling in house acceding to Jen's FB post.

August 2012: Alexandria MN house re-listed for sale.

October 2012: Sarah begins work at Kohls in Oregon (Sarah's LinkedIn resume).

December 2012: Jen and kids travel to Oregon, getting a ride with the Lees after rollover accident in Missoula According to Statesman Journal article.

April 2013- Alexandria, MN house sold. The family moves to West Linn, family friend Alexandra Argyropoulos tells Oregon child welfare officials that the Hart parents have been depriving their kids of food as punishment, she says. The Harts break off contact with her when they learn of it. Argyropoulos says she was told the Hart children had been interviewed by Oregon officials; it was apparent that each child had been coached by their mothers on what to say; and nothing more could be done by the Oregon Department of Human Services.

2013: Portland Portland musician of the band Nahko and Medicine for the People Ribner began offering music classes to the Hart children. The Hart children also started volunteering at the Good Neighbor Family Pantry

July 2013: The police department responds to a call to the Hart's house.

November 2014: Family members participate in a Portland protest of a Missouri grand jury declining to indict a Ferguson police officer in the fatal shooting of Michael Brown. Devonte and a Portland police officer hug, and the photo of the moment goes viral.

March 2016: Family members join U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont onstage during a presidential campaign rally in Vancouver.

May 2017: Jennifer and Sarah Hart buy a two-story, 3-bedroom home on 2 acres of land in the Woodland area of Clark County, Washington, property records show.

June 2017: Jen's rough year FB post.

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services opens a Child Protective Services investigation in which the Hart children are "identified as potential victims of alleged abuse or neglect."

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services attempts without success to make contact with the Hart family.

March 24, 2018 - 3:00 AM: Sarah Hart sends a middle-of-the-night text message to friend Cheryl Hart, only hours after child protective services first visited the family's home, saying she was so sick she might have to go to the hospital. The friend never made contact again.

March 24, 2018 - 8:14 AM: The family is in or around Newport, Oregon, police say. It's believed they continue south on Route 101 until they reach State Route 1 in Leggett, California.

March 24, 2018 - 8:00 PM The Harts travel south on State Route 1 until they reach the Fort Bragg area in Mendocino.

March 25, 2018 - 9:00 PM: The family leaves Fort Bragg.

March 26, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services again unsuccessfully attempts to make contact with the Hart family. They call 911 and ask the Sheriff's Department to do a welfare check on the family.

March 26, 2018 - 1:15 PM: Cheryl Hart calls 911 and asked the Sheriff's Department to do a welfare check on Sarah Hart. "Nobody has been able to get ahold of her, talk to her or seen her since," she told the dispatcher.

March 26, 2018: A passer-by along Highway 1 in Westport, California, calls 911 after looking down a 100-foot embankment and seeing an SUV upside down on the rocky shoreline. Five people are found dead: three children outside the SUV and two women inside.

March 27, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services makes a third unsuccessful attempt to contact the Hart family.

March 28, 2018: The women are identified by the Mendocino County's Sheriff's Office as Jennifer and Sarah Hart and their children as Markis, Jeremiah and Abigail. Three of their other children: Devonte, Hannah and Sierra, remain missing. Sheriff Tom Allman said a search is ongoing for the remaining three children.

March 29, 2018: Police continue to search for the three missing children, including Devonte, and to investigate why the SUV plunged off the California cliff. Authorities don't know if the kids were also in the car, but are basing their search on the assumption that they were thrown from the car into the cliffs or the surf.

March 31, 2018: Officials reveal the speedometer on the Harts' wrecked SUV was "pinned" at 90 mph.

April 2, 2018: Officials say the crash may have been intentional, saying data taken from the family's SUV shows the vehicle came to a complete stop at the Route 1 pullout before speeding off the cliff. The search for the missing children becomes a "recovery effort."

April 2, 2018: "I'm to the point where I'm no longer calling this an accident, I'm calling it a crime," Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman tells HLN's Ashleigh Banfield.

April 7, 2018: An unidentified body, believed to be that of a black female, is found in the ocean near the site of the crash. Officials said an identification could take weeks.

 

[KaaBoom]

Yes,there are links in back threads. Lee herself even talks in an article about her time with the Harts .https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...rtbreak-though-not-the-way-some-might-expect/

Thanks, added to the timeline.

March 2004: Earliest known public record that shows Jennifer Hart and Sarah Gengler, both from South Dakota, residing in Alexandria, Minnesota.

Summer 2004: The Harts take in a foster child named Lee. Then they later abandoned her the next Spring after they dropped her off at a therapist’s appointment, never to see her again.

May 2005: Sarah Hart petitions to change her last name from Gengler to Hart.

September 2006: Jennifer and Sarah Hart adopt siblings Markis, Abigail and Hannah.

September 2008: According to a police report from Alexandria, Minnesota, Hannah, then 6, tells authorities that one of her mothers bruised her with a belt. Asked about the beating, Jennifer and Sarah Hart tell a police investigator and social worker the girl had fallen down the stairs.

February 2009: Jennifer and Sarah adopt Devonte and two of his siblings — bringing their number of children to six. An article from Paper Trail, a New Zealand-based news outlet, describes his adoption. The article said by age 4, the boy had been abused, neglected, shot at and had endured other traumas.

November 2010: Police in Alexandria, Minnesota interview Abigail Hart, 6 at the time, after a teacher discovers bruises stretching from her sternum to her navel. The girl says Jennifer Hart hit her with a closed fist, put her head in a cold bath, then hit her again, court records show. She was then grounded, the girl told police, which meant she had to stay in bed and miss lunch.

December 2010: Alexandria, MN home listed for sale.

April 2011: Sarah Hart pleads guilty to abusing Abigail Hart and is sentenced to a year of probation for misdemeanor domestic assault, court records show. Sarah told police she was the one who hit Abigail, even though the girl told authorities her mother Jennifer had done it. The next day, all six of the Hart children are taken out of public schools. They never attend public school again.

October 2011: The family lives in Alexandria, Minnesota, for a time and takes part in local activism. Hart family members including Devonte and Jennifer Hart participate in an Occupy Minneapolis demonstration.

2012: According to friends in Oregon, Sarah Hart travels to Portland to look for work. Jennifer Hart and their children later join her. Hannah loses front teeth after allegedly falling in house acceding to Jen's FB post.

August 2012: Alexandria MN house re-listed for sale.

October 2012: Sarah begins work at Kohls in Oregon (Sarah's LinkedIn resume).

December 2012: Jen and kids travel to Oregon, getting a ride with the Lees after rollover accident in Missoula According to Statesman Journal article.

April 2013- Alexandria, MN house sold. The family moves to West Linn, family friend Alexandra Argyropoulos tells Oregon child welfare officials that the Hart parents have been depriving their kids of food as punishment, she says. The Harts break off contact with her when they learn of it. Argyropoulos says she was told the Hart children had been interviewed by Oregon officials; it was apparent that each child had been coached by their mothers on what to say; and nothing more could be done by the Oregon Department of Human Services.

2013: Portland Portland musician of the band Nahko and Medicine for the People Ribner began offering music classes to the Hart children. The Hart children also started volunteering at the Good Neighbor Family Pantry

July 2013: The police department responds to a call to the Hart's house.

November 2014: Family members participate in a Portland protest of a Missouri grand jury declining to indict a Ferguson police officer in the fatal shooting of Michael Brown. Devonte and a Portland police officer hug, and the photo of the moment goes viral.

March 2016: Family members join U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont onstage during a presidential campaign rally in Vancouver.

May 2017: Jennifer and Sarah Hart buy a two-story, 3-bedroom home on 2 acres of land in the Woodland area of Clark County, Washington, property records show.

June 2017: Jen's rough year FB post.

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services opens a Child Protective Services investigation in which the Hart children are "identified as potential victims of alleged abuse or neglect."

March 23, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services attempts without success to make contact with the Hart family.

March 24, 2018 - 3:00 AM: Sarah Hart sends a middle-of-the-night text message to friend Cheryl Hart, only hours after child protective services first visited the family's home, saying she was so sick she might have to go to the hospital. The friend never made contact again.

March 24, 2018 - 8:14 AM: The family is in or around Newport, Oregon, police say. It's believed they continue south on Route 101 until they reach State Route 1 in Leggett, California.

March 24, 2018 - 8:00 PM The Harts travel south on State Route 1 until they reach the Fort Bragg area in Mendocino.

March 25, 2018 - 9:00 PM: The family leaves Fort Bragg.

March 26, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services again unsuccessfully attempts to make contact with the Hart family. They call 911 and ask the Sheriff's Department to do a welfare check on the family.

March 26, 2018 - 1:15 PM: Cheryl Hart calls 911 and asked the Sheriff's Department to do a welfare check on Sarah Hart. "Nobody has been able to get ahold of her, talk to her or seen her since," she told the dispatcher.

March 26, 2018: A passer-by along Highway 1 in Westport, California, calls 911 after looking down a 100-foot embankment and seeing an SUV upside down on the rocky shoreline. Five people are found dead: three children outside the SUV and two women inside.

March 27, 2018: The Washington State Department of Social and Health Services makes a third unsuccessful attempt to contact the Hart family.

March 28, 2018: The women are identified by the Mendocino County's Sheriff's Office as Jennifer and Sarah Hart and their children as Markis, Jeremiah and Abigail. Three of their other children: Devonte, Hannah and Sierra, remain missing. Sheriff Tom Allman said a search is ongoing for the remaining three children.

March 29, 2018: Police continue to search for the three missing children, including Devonte, and to investigate why the SUV plunged off the California cliff. Authorities don't know if the kids were also in the car, but are basing their search on the assumption that they were thrown from the car into the cliffs or the surf.

March 31, 2018: Officials reveal the speedometer on the Harts' wrecked SUV was "pinned" at 90 mph.

April 2, 2018: Officials say the crash may have been intentional, saying data taken from the family's SUV shows the vehicle came to a complete stop at the Route 1 pullout before speeding off the cliff. The search for the missing children becomes a "recovery effort."

April 2, 2018: "I'm to the point where I'm no longer calling this an accident, I'm calling it a crime," Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman tells HLN's Ashleigh Banfield.

April 7, 2018: An unidentified body, believed to be that of a black female, is found in the ocean near the site of the crash. Officials said an identification could take weeks.

 

[jenniferal]

In the blackberry picture, does anyone else think it looks like Sierra's clavicle has been broken? Her right side doesn't look like a regular clavicle.

 

[margarita25]

In the blackberry picture, does anyone else think it looks like Sierra's clavicle has been broken? Her right side doesn't look like a regular clavicle.

(Coming out of lurkdom to say Welcome jenniferal

:welcome: )

 

[Aescwynn]

Crime Online has a nice encapsulation of the whole story here:

http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...ad-with-adopted-children-in-fatal-suv-plunge/

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

The children never went to public school again...were they "homeschooled?"

 

[Aescwynn]

The children never went to public school again...were they "homeschooled?"

Yep, exactly.

 

[JerricaBenton]

Just caught up on all these threads. It hasn't been widely reported in the UK press so I was slow to pick up on it.

I just hope the kids were asleep and were not scared in their final moments

 

[Masterj]

Looking on Sarah’s mother’s FB, she looks like she would be very accepting. Maybe the family did not approve of the harsh way the kids were treated

I think if we’ve learned anything in this tragedy it’s that Facebook and social media pics rarely tell the true, full story. That’s not to say that Sarah’s mother wasn’t accepting, it’s just that like the rest of this case we really have no idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[enelram]

In the blackberry picture, does anyone else think it looks like Sierra's clavicle has been broken? Her right side doesn't look like a regular clavicle.

You could be correct. Good spotting! I recently broke my clavicle and it looked very similar. This is worth checking out.