CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

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flourish

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One of my daughter's best friends has half of her hair shaved , in a cheetah pattern, just like that. The other side is long.

She has also hah it shaved in zebra pattern, and had words or symbols shaved. She loves it and gets lots of compliments. She is African American and no one has said it is inappropriate to shave it that way.

I am not sure we can point to the women and accuse them of anything nefarious here...the boys may have chosen it themselves at the barber shop. It is a common hair adornment.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/494973815266981900/

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/402227810440092878/
Thank you! I was wondering what I'm supposed to say when I'm doing, for example, face painting and a child wants to be a jungle animal.... Am I supposed to not allow any jungle animal faces or worse only for certain kids? How do you explain to a 6 year old sorry I know your buddy Henry has his face painted like a leapord but you don't get to because you're a black kid?

I'm not trying to perseverate, just asking since it's still bring talked about (jungle hair cuts).
 

Silver~Bell

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I never said that was a statistic. This is me speaking about my personal experience as both a homeschooler (were you homeschooled? are you homeschooling children? are you part of the community? Please share your experiences!) and as someone who has in the past volunteered my time with an organization that focuses on homeschool abuse/neglect. You are free to disagree with me of course, but please don't put words into my mouth, simply share your opinion. :)

And yes, I do find the state of the homeschooling community quite "astounding," for better or worse.
I hardly put words in your mouth, merely noted your claim that (paraphrase bc I'm on Tapatalk and it's being balky) "for every good homeschooling family, there are two bad ones" - and I don't care about your work in organizations that try to discredit homeschoolers and uncover "abuse." There is no place on these boards for demonizing homeschooling. I'm a forty-year veteran teacher and I report suspected abuse WEEKLY - abuse both cruel and perverted, by families who use public schools.

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bluesneakers

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Why? How much negative feedback was received? One comment? While I totally acknowledge the questioning ipso-facto, was there any admonishing at the time? Any links?

There was a lot of negative feedback and threats after the photo was first published.

If you want links try googling his name with the date range around the time of the protests in Ferguson.

https://verysmartbrothas.theroot.com/dear-america-wheres-my-hug-1822521722
https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/12/10/the-problem-with-hugs/
https://thegrapevine.theroot.com/cop-who-hugged-crying-kid-in-viral-photo-allegedly-supp-1790885939

The uglier stuff - you'd have to search twitter, reddit, Facebook, and maybe 4chan. It was there. I remember seeing some horrifying tweets and worrying about the young man and his family.

I don't know why people are having trouble believing the Harts were harassed after that picture was published. This is the internet. Trolls and bullies get vicious and go after people for just about anything. (And things were VERY TENSE after Ferguson. Very. Tense.)
 

gcharlie

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Thank you! I was wondering what I'm supposed to say when I'm doing, for example, face painting and a child wants to be a jungle animal.... Am I supposed to not allow any jungle animal faces or worse only for certain kids? How do you explain to a 6 year old sorry I know your buddy Henry has his face painted like a leapord but you don't get to because you're a black kid?

I'm not trying to perseverate, just asking since it's still bring talked about (jungle hair cuts).

Best way I can put it is what if your young daughter came to you and wanted a face painting or clothing that might be interpreted as highly suggestive sexually?

Notice I said might be interpreted.

The parent has to decide how this might be perceived by others. <modsnip>

IMO, the mothers should have been sensitive to this.
 

SaguaroSpirit

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Gooddeeds

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This is my very first post. I've read so much about this case and just need to make my one comment. When my daughter was 8 yr old I wanted to kill her. Thought about it all the time. Knew I was crazy so went to a psychiatrist. She told me I wasn't crazy, all moms want to kill their kids sometimes. I figured she was crazy, so I went to a therapist. That's where I learned after months of therapy I had repressed childhood memories of sexual abuse which were later validated by other children abused by my father. So the point is, I can't know WHY these women did the things they did, but I do know that childhood abuse in many cases causes those who grow up to abuse children. We try not to, we think we're being better parents, but when abuse goes untreated, we unconsciously or consciously replay the whole scenario. I starved my child, I took her to doctors for nonexistent conditions, and then I wanted to kill her. Thank god and 11 therapists later, my daughter is grown, healthy, loving-- and I'm no longer crazy. So if you want to know why any mother does something crazy, it's because crazy was done to her. BUT there is no excuse when you are the child of crazy. There is no explanation big enough, no forgiveness worthy. This case breaks my heart all over again. That no one saw how wrong it all was.

MrsEmmaPeel, your post is evidence of your hard work in your healing process. BRAVO!

Thank you for your transparency in sharing here.
 

Mira_Eg

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Not sure if it's been already posted here, but these are the missing children posters published by FBI with their full names and dates of birth:
Tweet: https://twitter.com/FBIMostWanted/status/985986719924109312
Site:
Hannah Jean Hart D0B: February 25, 2002
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/hannah-jean-hart/person-view
Devonte Jordan Hart: October 24, 2002
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/devonte-jordan-hart/person-view
Sierra Maija Hart: April 20, 2005 (Cierra Rose)
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/sierra-maija-hart
They asked for info from anyone who has any knowledge of the whereabouts..., including sightings prior to the 'traffic accident.',.... in these locations/ sites the family might have visited/ travelled by:
Ten Mile Beach in Westport, California, near Fort Bragg, California

Russian Gulch south of Fort Bragg, California

MacKerricher State Park in Mendocino County, California

Surfwood Campground in Mendocino County, California

Pinewood Campground in Mendocino County, California

Cleone Campground in Mendocino County, California
 

gcharlie

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Not sure if it's been already posted here, but these are the missing children posters published by FBI with their full names and dates of birth:
Tweet: https://twitter.com/FBIMostWanted/status/985986719924109312
Site:
Hannah Jean Hart D0B: February 25, 2002
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/hannah-jean-hart/person-view
Devonte Jordan Hart: October 24, 2002
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/devonte-jordan-hart/person-view
Sierra Maija Hart: April 20, 2005 (Cierra Rose)
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/sierra-maija-hart

Interesting that this was tweeted today.

No heights or weights estimated for these kids. (understandably so)

DOB are new info.
 

Zelda1010

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Not sure if it's been already posted here, but these are the missing children posters published by FBI with their full names and dates of birth:
Tweet: https://twitter.com/FBIMostWanted/status/985986719924109312
Site:
Hannah Jean Hart D0B: February 25, 2002
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/hannah-jean-hart/person-view
Devonte Jordan Hart: October 24, 2002
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/devonte-jordan-hart/person-view
Sierra Maija Hart: April 20, 2005 (Cierra Rose)
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/sierra-maija-hart
They asked for info from anyone who has any knowledge of the whereabouts..., including sightings prior to the 'traffic accident.',.... in these locations/ sites the family might have visited/ travelled by:
Ten Mile Beach in Westport, California, near Fort Bragg, California

Russian Gulch south of Fort Bragg, California

MacKerricher State Park in Mendocino County, California

Surfwood Campground in Mendocino County, California

Pinewood Campground in Mendocino County, California

Cleone Campground in Mendocino County, California

Thanks for sharing.

So it looks like Sierra's age has been updated again and she'd be celebrating her 13th bday in a few days here?

I'm happy to see the updated thorough info with the map and travel timeline but it is still all so strange.
 

Snflowertown

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Thinking about where they were prior to the crash. My guess is that they were staying with a "friend or friends" between their home and the crash site. I am speculating that the "friend" is too ashamed to reveal themselves or just does not want to be involved in the investigation in any way. Maybe they feel some type of guilt is my guess.

I based this speculation on the vacation in San Francisco. The whole family stayed with that lady in San Francisco for 2 weeks who ended up reporting them for abuse. She was someone they met on Facebook, a complete stranger. They seem like the type to stay with friends rather than pay for a hotel room. Also, Jen "caught" a ride with that man after the rollover on the highway.

Did they get a room for the night after the incident?
Was the car totaled or damaged if they had to ride to their destination with someone else?
Who catches a ride with a stranger with 6 kids? A strange story.
 

debbiegarcia36

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It's possible. I just think viewing it in the context of children of abuse would lead closer to the truth than viewing it from the lens of a different context. These kids lived a particular reality most of us do not:

[FONT=&amp]Young children of narcissists learn early in life that everything they do is a reflection on the parent to the point that the child must fit into the [/FONT]personality[FONT=&amp] and behavioral mold intended for them. These children bear tremendous [/FONT]anxiety [FONT=&amp]from a young age as they must continually push aside their own personality in order to please the parent and provide the mirror image the parent so desperately needs. If these children fail to comply with the narcissist’s wishes or try to set their own [/FONT]goals[FONT=&amp] for their life – God, forbid – the children will be overtly punished, frozen out or avoided for a period of time – hours, days or even weeks depending on the perceived transgression in the eyes of the narcissistic parent.
[/FONT]
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-is-2020/201405/narcissistic-parents-psychological-effect-their-children

The narcissistic golden child is often a replica of the narcissistic parent. They subconsciously take on the narcissistic parent’s values, beliefs, and way of life. They integrate these beliefs into every aspect of the life. Whereas the scapegoated child consciously completely rejects the narcissistic parent’s way of life, beliefs, and values. They consciously question the narcissist’s way of thinking – whereas the narcissistic child just goes along to get along.
http://parenting.exposed/the-relationship-between-the-scapegoat-and-the-golden-child/

Typically narcissistic parents are exclusively and possessively close to their children and may be especially envious of, and threatened by, their child's growing independence.[SUP][1][/SUP]The result may be what has been termed a pattern of narcissistic attachment, with the child considered to exist solely to fulfill the parent's wishes and needs.[SUP][2][/SUP] Commonly parents attempt to force their children to treat themselves as though they are their parents' puppets, or else be subject to punishments such as emotional abuse. Relative to developmental psychology, narcissistic parenting will adversely affect children in the areas of reasoning, emotional, ethical, and societal behaviors and attitudes as they mature.[SUP][3][/SUP] Within the realm of narcissistic parenting, personal boundaries are often disregarded with the goal of moulding and manipulating the child to satisfy the parents’ expectations.[SUP][4][/SUP]
Narcissistic people with low self esteem feel the need to control how others regard them, fearing they will be blamed or rejected and personal inadequacies exposed. They are self-absorbed, some to the point of grandiosity; and being preoccupied with protecting their self image, they tend to be inflexible, and lack the empathy necessary for child raising.[SUP][5]
As a result, children of narcissists learn to play their part and to perform their special skill, especially in public or for others; but typically do not have many memories of having felt loved or appreciated for being themselves, rather associating their experience of love and appreciation with conforming to the demands of the narcissistic parent.[SUP][11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_parent

(BBM. MUCH more at link!)

ETA:

I mean I agree with the poster who gets a strange, performance vibe form Devonte's tears. Yes. Kids cry. 12 year olds typically don't do so as much in public. yes it's okay. These were not normal kids in a normal environment. They were children of abuse and neglect with abusive, annihilating parents.
Great article, thanks. It explains a lot.

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Whiteorchids

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It's possible. I just think viewing it in the context of children of abuse would lead closer to the truth than viewing it from the lens of a different context. These kids lived a particular reality most of us do not:

[FONT=&amp]Young children of narcissists learn early in life that everything they do is a reflection on the parent to the point that the child must fit into the [/FONT]personality[FONT=&amp] and behavioral mold intended for them. These children bear tremendous [/FONT]anxiety [FONT=&amp]from a young age as they must continually push aside their own personality in order to please the parent and provide the mirror image the parent so desperately needs. If these children fail to comply with the narcissist’s wishes or try to set their own [/FONT]goals[FONT=&amp] for their life – God, forbid – the children will be overtly punished, frozen out or avoided for a period of time – hours, days or even weeks depending on the perceived transgression in the eyes of the narcissistic parent.
[/FONT]
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-is-2020/201405/narcissistic-parents-psychological-effect-their-children

The narcissistic golden child is often a replica of the narcissistic parent. They subconsciously take on the narcissistic parent’s values, beliefs, and way of life. They integrate these beliefs into every aspect of the life. Whereas the scapegoated child consciously completely rejects the narcissistic parent’s way of life, beliefs, and values. They consciously question the narcissist’s way of thinking – whereas the narcissistic child just goes along to get along.
http://parenting.exposed/the-relationship-between-the-scapegoat-and-the-golden-child/

Typically narcissistic parents are exclusively and possessively close to their children and may be especially envious of, and threatened by, their child's growing independence.[SUP][1][/SUP]The result may be what has been termed a pattern of narcissistic attachment, with the child considered to exist solely to fulfill the parent's wishes and needs.[SUP][2][/SUP] Commonly parents attempt to force their children to treat themselves as though they are their parents' puppets, or else be subject to punishments such as emotional abuse. Relative to developmental psychology, narcissistic parenting will adversely affect children in the areas of reasoning, emotional, ethical, and societal behaviors and attitudes as they mature.[SUP][3][/SUP] Within the realm of narcissistic parenting, personal boundaries are often disregarded with the goal of moulding and manipulating the child to satisfy the parents’ expectations.[SUP][4][/SUP]
Narcissistic people with low self esteem feel the need to control how others regard them, fearing they will be blamed or rejected and personal inadequacies exposed. They are self-absorbed, some to the point of grandiosity; and being preoccupied with protecting their self image, they tend to be inflexible, and lack the empathy necessary for child raising.[SUP][5]
As a result, children of narcissists learn to play their part and to perform their special skill, especially in public or for others; but typically do not have many memories of having felt loved or appreciated for being themselves, rather associating their experience of love and appreciation with conforming to the demands of the narcissistic parent.[SUP][11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_parent

(BBM. MUCH more at link!)

ETA:

I mean I agree with the poster who gets a strange, performance vibe form Devonte's tears. Yes. Kids cry. 12 year olds typically don't do so as much in public. yes it's okay. These were not normal kids in a normal environment. They were children of abuse and neglect with abusive, annihilating parents.

How do you define “normal kid” it’s just a cliche. Every child is unique and special in their own way. [emoji4]
 

KaaBoom

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I think the news accounts have stated that the vehicle only stopped for 7 seconds before speeding off the cliff. (I can go back and look for this. If I find it, I'll post.)

Here is what I think happened, based on the facts we know:

They left the house in haste after the CPS visit, without a plan, or at least without an exact plan. They left to avoid another visit. (They'd been reported before, and they likely thought this might be visit which might, finally, result in serious action, such as the children being taken away.)

They drove hither and yon, Jen all-the-while hatching a plan.

They ended up down the coast, wherein Jen's plan began to take shape: She either bought (or had brought with her) some Benedryl, so took the opportunity to lace food/drink with it -all of them -Sarah's and the children's. This could have happened in a variety of ways, but likely she didn't even tell them to take it to sleep. It would be harder to get ALL of them to take it. I think she probably just put it in drinks/sprinkled it on food, etc. (Benedryl can be very sedating, even at low doses in children and/or adults who aren't used to taking it.) At this point, they were pulled over the side of the road for a snack, meal, etc.

After all were decidedly drowsy or asleep, she continued on with her plan, nipping on whatever she usually liked to drink, and starting to drive along the coastal highway. Finally, she found what looked like an appropriate spot -no guardrails, everyone asleep or very drowsy, no seatbelts..... By this time, she had enough alcohol on board so that the inhibitions were gone, pulled into the spot. Stopped for a few seconds to guage exactly whered they'd go off, get up the courage, etc. Then, off the cliff they went.

Also, I always wince when I read that she was "drunk". Her BAC was very slightly above the legal limit to drive, so I think tipsy would be a better description. Not so much that she hardly knew what she was doing, but enough to remove the natural inhibitions. Just my thoughts.

I don't buy that they didn't have a plan. They knew they were going to go to prison, and the children were going to go to foster care. When they left home, they knew they were never going to come back.

I think they drove straight to the coast and started heading down the coast looking for the right place to do it. After they saw that high cliff with no guard rail, they drove on to Fort Bragg, stopped there and discussed it, and decided that was were they were going to kill themselves and their kids. They spent the day preparing, then drove back up to the cliff, and drove off it. More than likely the kids were just confused as to what was going on. IMHO.

Also I don't agree that her BAC was slightly above the legal limit. She was well above the legal limit to drive anywhere. She would have been significantly impaired. Even if it was just an accident, it would have been incredibly irresponsible of her to be driving that drunk.

0.10 - 0.125

If your BAC is between 0.10 and 0.125 your speech will be slurred and your balance, vision, reactions time and hearing will be impaired. Your motor coordination will also be significantly impaired and you'll have a loss of good judgment.

Note: No matter where you live, it's illegal to drive. In fact, it'd be extremely irresponsible to drive anything at this point: including a boat, snowmobile, off-road vehicle &#8211; even a riding lawnmower. Not a good idea. Don't even think about it.

Your Estimated Blood Alcohol Concentration _ Alcohol Help Center
 

SATA

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You aren't missing anything - just a bunch of comments that wouldn't be allowed here.

I find the comments upsetting and unnecessary.
Glad they probably wouldn´t be allowed here, to be honest.

The family of the siblings have every right to express their grief and frustration.
 

human

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Agreed.



There are many different attitudes about nudity and children's exposure to it. And people are free to parent their children accordingly, within the limits of the law. Our nation is rooted in a Puritan ethic that sees the human body, as sinful and something to be kept secret. But not every culture feels that way and not every American feels that way.

I was exposed to naked adults as a kid. Just casually sleeping naked or strolling along. It just made me and my brothers giggle. No trauma and no negative effect for me. I think as long as no one is trying to flash a kid for sexual purposes and the adults don;t freak out and act insane at the possibility that their kid might catch a glance of a naked butt, kids will not be traumatized by that.

I respect that some parents do not want their little kids to see naked adults. That's acceptable but it's just differences in attitudes.

Here where I live, some European women go topless. It seems the butt floss bikini bottoms are more in now and *advertiser censored* are covered. Weird.

Anyway, some kids do talk about it. You can get postcards of naked women here right in the grocery store.

Child sex abuse is a huge problem here. Not sure of the correlation between puritan and repression and sex crimes. There are plenty child sex *advertiser censored* busts in Europe.

I think watching *advertiser censored* or watching real people have sex can be prosecuted in the US for child sex abuse
 

flourish

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There is a huge difference between exposing children to the body in a natural setting, like at home, and exposing children to live or recorded sex.

I was at a nude hot springs once and a family showed up. The kids were very little, I was under the water, and just stayed there until they went up a few pools.... Which I think they did because it was clear none of the adults were pleased.
 
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