CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

[bluesneakers]

Sure, but given the circumstances, I think it matters. Jmo

Yeah, I suppose everything in her past has some meaning given the circumstances.

 

[Koshka]

You can order a retainer online. Its true. Haha.
The company sends you a kit. You take an impression and send it back.
It takes a couple of weeks. Much much cheaper.

The things you learn on Websleuths! I had no idea.

 

[goldenbear]

On this thread someone pointed out google earth calculates the drop from the bluff to the rocks to be in the 20s feet. This is even less than the last report, Someone skilled with computers could verify this. Today is record store day in the USA and Europe with great deals on rcords.

 

[bears10]

Yeah, I suppose everything in her past has some meaning given the circumstances.

I assume this is sarcastic but I’ll bite. Yes, I do think the context of her shoplifting means something. She told the police that she didn’t know why she did it but she was going through a tough time (or something like that, I’m paraphrasing). She seems like someone who blames bad behavior on “going through a tough time”.

 

[LonelyChild]

I, too, doubt all the disabilities and special-needs kids claims - developmental and intellectually behind because of how they've lived since adopted, yes.

Something I found odd I believe ita mentioned in that Article at some point. Why was Jen so insistant that the kids would never be able to live proper adult lives?She supposedly said to people that Markis would not ever be able to have a job, the kids would never be able get married, the kids would never be able to live normal adult lives. What kind of a mother would say stuff like that? I cant see a normal parent saying those things. If the kids were as messed up as Jen claimed she should've gotten them therapy and help so they could reach their full potential. She also apparently repeatedly claimed the kids were disabled. You have six adopted kids, I'd find it highly unlikely every one of them is disabled. The only disablity those kids had were the monsters who adopted them.

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[Silver~Bell]

Its genius! Why didn’t I think of that?
You can get a plastice clear retainer or a metal one.

You can get braces, too - the clear kind that are a series of retainers! At way less than orthodontists'! Supposedly faster, easier...

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[Lilibet]

Something I found odd I believe ita mentioned in that Article at some point. Why was Jen so insistant that the kids would never be able to live proper adult lives?She supposedly said to people that Markis would not ever be able to have a job, the kids would never be able get married, the kids would never be able to live normal adult lives. What kind of a mother would say stuff like that? I cant see a normal parent saying those things. If the kids were as messed up as Jen claimed she should've gotten them therapy and help so they could reach their full potential. She also apparently repeatedly claimed the kids were disabled. You have six adopted kids, I'd find it highly unlikely every one of them is disabled. The only disablity those kids had were the monsters who adopted them.

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Saying this allowed her to be both a victim of circumstance and a hero....she’s such a self-sacrificing mother blah blah blah. I wonder if anyone ever challenged her and said “So what are you doing to help them reach their full potential?” But she would have cut that person out of her life immediately.

It amazes me that she never spoke to her father again after he sent her back to live with her mother because she was abusing his trust. As has been said before, she was a classic injustice collector. Having 6 “disabled” children of color played right along with that scenario.
JMO

 

[Breamworthy]

On this thread someone pointed out google earth calculates the drop from the bluff to the rocks to be in the 20s feet. This is even less than the last report.

That car is over 18 feet long, and you can see in the photographs that the height of the cliff is several times the length of the car.

(https://www.thecarconnection.com/specifications/gmc_yukon-xl_2003_4dr-1500-sle)

 

[DatelineFan]

Its genius! Why didn’t I think of that?
You can get a plastice clear retainer or a metal one.

I feel like if she really had one of these, she would have been wearing it, thus smiling in photos.


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[MrsEmmaPeel]

What we do know for a fact is that photos were posted to create an image of wellbeing. Those smiles! I can't get over those smiles (except Hannah) and their bodies. Yes, thin and bony but so unlike obese children I see. Beautiful and strong in some of the photos. I know from my childhood that it's harder to square reality when things seem like they should be good -- trips, nice home, pets, festivals, hugs from strangers (irony), maybe books-- and life is hell. Which is a contrast to the Turpin squalor and chains. I grew up with narcissistic mom and abuser dad. Beautiful, well-connected. We were rich, and I had every advantage. People loved my parents. My friends loved my mom and always told me how lucky I was. I'd been in therapy my whole life until last year. Maybe that's why this story obsesses me so much.

 

[KeepCalm]

Something I found odd I believe ita mentioned in that Article at some point. Why was Jen so insistant that the kids would never be able to live proper adult lives?She supposedly said to people that Markis would not ever be able to have a job, the kids would never be able get married, the kids would never be able to live normal adult lives. What kind of a mother would say stuff like that? I cant see a normal parent saying those things. If the kids were as messed up as Jen claimed she should've gotten them therapy and help so they could reach their full potential. She also apparently repeatedly claimed the kids were disabled. You have six adopted kids, I'd find it highly unlikely every one of them is disabled. The only disablity those kids had were the monsters who adopted them.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I have a friend who adopted two boys when they were young toddlers. She was told that they may never speak, walk, go to school etc. She resigned herself to this life, but she also threw her boys into all the therapies that may or may not make a difference. They flourished.

However, the oldest does have a marked intellectual ability, and to us - her good friends, she would question his abilities out in the real world, even as far as saying "he can't do it" on their bad days. But she never denies him the opportunity to try. He is currently living in his own apartment. Will it last? Its only been a month, maybe not. She won't be the one that stops him. He's had a relationship, and when he has a job, he has a great work ethic - he's been waiting to get into a developmentally appropriate program for work that has a wait list.

Her younger one will have little abnormal problems out in the world. Obviously, they are both able to talk, walk, and be educated.

It worries me that these parents had zero sum view of the childrens capabilities. No give, no opportunity, just ownership.

 

[Lilibet]

That car is over 18 feet long, and you can see in the photographs that the height of the cliff is several times the length of the car.

(https://www.thecarconnection.com/specifications/gmc_yukon-xl_2003_4dr-1500-sle)

Yes, I don’t think the lower estimate is correct and it contradicts the MSM reports of 100 ft.

The second photo in this article shows the car at the base of the cliff and helps see the relative height of the cliff.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8159317-181/five-dead-including-three-children?artslide=1

https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/ar...n-fatal-Mendocino-crash-may-have-12799459.php

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hart-f...-area-where-suv-plunged-off-california-cliff/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...rt-says/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.69c9e2d0f3e5

 

[gcharlie]

A lot of talk about Jen, not so much about Sarah.

Sarah got her degree in education with a minor in special ed. Her studies had to include child development.

The more info that comes out, the clearer it becomes that this family was dysfunctional and that the children's needs were not being met socially, emotionally and educationally. Right now we don't know if these kids got regular pediatric care, but given that there is no record of dental care, I'm willing to bet the farm that the kids did not have regular checkups. In other words, Sarah carries just as much of the blame as Jen for these kids being deprived of a healthy upbringing.

There was both abuse and neglect. Sarah can't just be the breadwinner if she was living in that house and knew what was going on.

 

[gitana1]

I assume this is sarcastic but I’ll bite. Yes, I do think the context of her shoplifting means something. She told the police that she didn’t know why she did it but she was going through a tough time (or something like that, I’m paraphrasing). She seems like someone who blames bad behavior on “going through a tough time”.

I agree. It's an interesting tidbit from her history. She shoplifted a bunch of trading cards. A lot of them. Then blamed the crime on going through something. She might have been. So how she handles crisis is by creating more crisis.

Saying this allowed her to be both a victim of circumstance and a hero....she’s such a self-sacrificing mother blah blah blah. I wonder if anyone ever challenged her and said “So what are you doing to help them reach their full potential?” But she would have cut that person out of her life immediately.

It amazes me that she never spoke to her father again after he sent her back to live with her mother because she was abusing his trust. As has been said before, she was a classic injustice collector. Having 6 “disabled” children of color played right along with that scenario.
JMO

Exactly. I 100% agree.

 

[bluesneakers]

I assume this is sarcastic but I’ll bite. Yes, I do think the context of her shoplifting means something. She told the police that she didn’t know why she did it but she was going through a tough time (or something like that, I’m paraphrasing). She seems like someone who blames bad behavior on “going through a tough time”.

No, I was not being sarcastic. A post referenced her history of shoplifting but I'd only seen a report of the single incident. To me one incident of shoplifting is different from a history of shoplifting, so I asked for more information. IMO there's a difference between she got caught one time and she got caught 10 times over a period of five years (for example). And it's not that it doesn't matter - it's just different. I agree with you that given the circumstances we're going to look at everything in her past and see how and if it tells us how she got to where she ended up.

 

[bluesneakers]

I agree. It's an interesting tidbit from her history. She shoplifted a bunch of trading cards. A lot of them. Then blamed the crime on going through something. She might have been. So how she handles crisis is by creating more crisis.


Exactly. I 100% agree.

It's reminiscent of what she told Hannah to tell the DeKalbs about having had a rough week.

 

[SATA]

I don't know.

They were hiding something big and knew CPS was bound to find it? They knew the knocks on the door weren't going away.

What do you think was different?

I think that Hannah might have been in a terrible state.
She might have been severely under-nourished. They could have been withholding food from her since the night she fled.
And/or beatings.

Hard to write this.

 

[bluesneakers]

I think that Hannah might have been in a terrible state.
She might have been severely under-nourished. They could have been withholding food from her since the night she fled.
And/or beatings.

Hard to write this.

I know.

:grouphug:

 

[LeighB]

Outside of psychosis, most people diagnosed with schizophrenia tend to be very gentle and non-violent. Likewise, many of their delusions center on their symptoms or disease being a gift of or from god or higher powers.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Mine is limited: two cousins and two friends' sons with it. One is so heavily medicated he's basically non-functional, one is in and out of jail and hallucinates but not dangerous, two are adopted (different families in different states) but show signs of RAD and bipolar and schizophrenia and who knows what else and are dangerous on an irregular basis to their very loving and gentle-but-firm families, and have had to be institutionalized but their parents can't keep them there forever and are quite concerned about what they might do once they're no longer minors and/or if they ever get their hands on a gun.

My conclusion from my very limited experience (and researching school shooters) has been that people who become psychotically violent are often schizophrenic and bipolar, but those who are schizophrenic and/or bipolar are very rarely violent. (I do have another cousin, a grandmother, and a neighbor who are bipolar without schizo. The man is occasionally violent (suicidal and also threatened to kill his wife multiple times); one of the women is in and out of jail and either abusing everyone close to her or genuinely loving them; the other, before her death, was the same but without the jail part. She was very narcissistic. She reminds me a *lot* of the jekyll/hyde personality that I sorta see in Jen.

I'm no kind of expert. Just an observer.

Jen seems driven, goal-oriented, motivated, organized, able to express herself, and always appeared neat and appropriately dressed. Untreated schizophrenia at her age, and while caring for six children - she would have been a mess, and likely have an arrest record* and some hospitalizations.

It's that last bit that I'm wondering about, specifically in the last 18 months of her life. I was stunned when they said the Safeway pic was her; she had looked very much the same from the time she was a little girl in that pic in the recent article till now, consistently over decades, but suddenly she looks like a totally different person, unkempt, overweight, not even facially very similar. Almost no one saw them in that last 18 months, including their "intimate friends." What happened in that time period?

I tried to learn as much about it as possible, though, when he was diagnosed and sent to live in a group home for a while. We had group therapy sessions that he invited me to and the doctors always told us that schizophrenics tend to be more dangerous to themselves than to others.

I have no doubt that Jen (and probably Sarah but I know less about her) had some kind of mental illness or personality disorder. With the history of anger, stealing, outbursts, etc. I would not immediately think of schizophrenia, not from what I've learned about it. (Borderline personality disorder, bi-polar disorder, narcissistic personality disorder are a few that would come to mind.

You're a very good friend to care so much to learn about it like that. And I agree with all the rest, too.

The Portland area is pricey. I wouldn't think they could take care of 6 kids on 53k (ish) alone.

Especially when you consider the rule of thumb that your house shouldn't cost more than 3x your income. If we assume 53k and add the 1900/mo, that's still only a $225k house if you don't want to be over-stretched, and I'm 90% certain I read that the WA house was in the mid 300s.

 

[Lilibet]

I think that Hannah might have been in a terrible state.
She might have been severely under-nourished. They could have been withholding food from her since the night she fled.
And/or beatings.

Hard to write this.

It’s quite possible Hannah’s condition was the catalyst for Devonte to seek help.