CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

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I don't believe it

RSBM

Also agree. ^^^
Was the KKK really targeting them ??
Not saying it never happens... but these 'parents' seemed to possibly have some kind of 'martyr' complex :
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5569973/Lesbian-couple-plunged-cliff-fled-home-targeted-KKK.html
'I asked Jennifer why and she replied, "Dah, we're two white women, lesbians, with six black kids, so…"
Emphasis mine.

Other people just live their lives and don't give a moments' thought to the perceptions of others who may be ignorant and/or biased. A better choice; imo.

These Hart women seemed to move around a lot. My .02 is that they didn't want people to get to know the children too closely ?
So sad how these kids from the young adult down to the littlest were failed. They deserved better !!!
:moo:
 
ok, so this woman was charged in MN, of child abuse, went to Washington State then Oregon, and has a history of abuse in some form. Devante told the neighbors on his moms for punishing them by withholding food, begging the neighbor to leave food fro them by the fence, he calls cops, they cops arrive and family is gone

do we think any of missing kdis were murdered? They may be in the water but Id think theyd have been by the shore, the waves are heavy there pushing things towards the shore, not OUT to sea IMO

These women didn't kill themselves and their abused kids because of withholding food, something happened . Maybe moms discovered Devante told the neighbors?

Whatever it is, something sinister happened IMO
 
RSBM

Also agree. ^^^
Was the KKK really targeting them ??
Not saying it never happens... but these 'parents' seemed to possibly have some kind of 'martyr' complex :
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5569973/Lesbian-couple-plunged-cliff-fled-home-targeted-KKK.html
'I asked Jennifer why and she replied, "Dah, we're two white women, lesbians, with six black kids, so…"
Emphasis mine.

Other people just live their lives and don't give a moments' thought to the perceptions of others who may be ignorant and/or biased. A better choice; imo.

These Hart women seemed to move around a lot. My .02 is that they didn't want people to get to know the children too closely ?
So sad how these kids from the young adult down to the littlest were failed. They deserved better !!!
:moo:

I need a police report to have a bit of confidence it occurred. The timing of the moves is too coincidental w/ CPS visits.
 
I don’t know that “we” are making judgments. I know that I have become very aware of what people from the black, native, and Korean communities are saying nowadays. I think “we”are becoming educated

It's a long road but I think so too. It starts with listening. Again, no idea if that's what happened here, but the way they show off their kids and come off as if they are saviors (and even the way others describe them - everyone loves the kids because the moms are so awesome?) I think it's a possibility. And why would two loving parents (if this was intentional) kill their children and themselves? Maybe they couldn't stand the thought of someone else raising their children? I don't know why but I can think of a few reasons. One weird thing to me is family annihilators are usually men and afaik always act alone.
 
ok, so this woman was charged in MN, of child abuse, went to Washington State then Oregon, and has a history of abuse in some form. Devante told the neighbors on his moms for punishing them by withholding food, begging the neighbor to leave food fro them by the fence, he calls cops, they cops arrive and family is gone

do we think any of missing kdis were murdered? They may be in the water but Id think theyd have been by the shore, the waves are heavy there pushing things towards the shore, not OUT to sea IMO

These women didn't kill themselves and their abused kids because of withholding food, something happened . Maybe moms discovered Devante told the neighbors?

Whatever it is, something sinister happened IMO

I agree 100%. I think the missing three will be found murdered somewhere else. Dear God in Heaven, I so pray I am wrong.
 
ok, so this woman was charged in MN, of child abuse, went to Washington State then Oregon, and has a history of abuse in some form. Devante told the neighbors on his moms for punishing them by withholding food, begging the neighbor to leave food fro them by the fence, he calls cops, they cops arrive and family is gone

do we think any of missing kdis were murdered? They may be in the water but Id think theyd have been by the shore, the waves are heavy there pushing things towards the shore, not OUT to sea IMO

These women didn't kill themselves and their abused kids because of withholding food, something happened . Maybe moms discovered Devante told the neighbors?

Whatever it is, something sinister happened IMO
SABBM

My thoughts as well.

They (LE) need to take some cadaver dogs around the Harts' last known location.
It would also help to know what was found on their phones and any private social media (did they text anyone and did the messages sound "final" ?) ; etc.

For the authorities to surmise the cliff plunge may have been intentional is huge. They know more than they're releasing to the public. They may know if any of the children are deceased... just not where they've been placed/buried.
:moo:
 
From my stand point I feel like Sarah and Jen weren't stupid. They got into a pattern of abusing the kids. They didn't see anything wrong with it. They probably thought as long as they only punish the kids and mistreat them at home everything would be OK and no one on the outside would know. They got a shock when the littlest girl when to school and told of the abuse she had suffered at the hands of Jen. So that was when they decided we will take the kids out of school so that wouldn't happen again. They also apparently over time isolated the kids from the outdoors. Old neighbors said they'd occasionally see the kids playing in the garden but current neighbors claim the kids never were outside. I think when they made their most recent move Sarah and Jen maybe looked at it as a way to start over new. When Hannah went to the neighbors and begged them to help her the mothers abuse probably got even worse and that's most likely when they started starving the kids. I feel like they offered the apology and introduced the kids as a way to smooth things over and keep the neighbors from calling cys. When realization of what devonte had been doing asking the neighbors for food hit either from them maybe finding the food, devonte and the two girls taking off or from when the social worker knocked at the door I think Jen and Sarah realised that was it and they needed a way out. They knew the kids must've been tired of the abuse for them to keep going to the neighbors so I think Jen and Sarah knew they couldn't isolate the kids anymore than they already have and that's why they did what they did. To stop the truth from coming out and being like the turpins and getting exposed. I also wanted to add I seen a interview where Sarah's father spoke about what happened. His comments were very short and he didn't say much about his grandchildren if anything at all. The only thing he said was that he felt like he was in a fog. He didn't try to defend his daughter or Jen or plead their case the way the friends have. I found that interesting. He didn't even say or try to reason that Sarah wouldn't be capable of killing the kids or anything. It could be just the family wanting privacy and not to be in the lime light but like I said I found it odd.

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I think we need to be careful when making judgments like this. When choosing to do domestic adoptions, one finds a large percentage of available children to be black or mixed race ethnicity. So it is no surprise that some white families will end up adopting black children.

And once they have done so, it's no surprise they might want their kids to have black siblings, since they already have white adoptive parents. I don't think this should be seen as a negative thing at all.

And I really don't believe that most adoptive parents choose their children because they 'want it to be about them' or anything like that. I think we end up being brought together in some fashion and it fits together, for many various reasons.

I really hate for this adoptive set of parents to be seen as some representative 'example' of adoptive parents anywhere from now on. :cry:

I don't think most parents are like those examples, I am scared these two might have been like that. I think they did have a lot of honest hopes and desires in choosing to have a family and in how they raised the children, I'm just worried that maybe they couldn't live up to their own hopes, and that in some ways they might have tried to imprint too much of themselves onto the children. I don't think these things are normal in parents, adoptive or otherwise, but I do think it can happen sometimes. I would think they both felt that taking the children to political rallies was a good thing...I guess I think they probably rationalized everything as being a good thing for the children, but it doesn't come across right now as a child-focused family, it feels like all the focus is about the adults and their interests?

We're missing a lot, but the glimpses we are getting seem to lack balance. It's not like we don't have a lot of insight into the kids because they've been hidden for privacy, because the kids have been in the family videos, even one of a teen boy dancing in his underwear. What's missing is glimpses of the children as individuals, their likes and dislikes, their hobbies as opposed to what the moms enjoy doing.

What we've read of the abuse allegation of the girl with bruises on her front and back, aside from the bruising, the girl has added in an allegation of cold baths, head held under water. The other children are all over the place in whether or not they will corroborate her story (no we don't get spanked; yes we do get spanked but with open palms (which wouldn't leave marks like that; she only got a time-out and didn't get spanked (so where did the bruises come from?). I think it was at this point that one of the moms said the girl in question had been lying a lot? With all those variations on what punishment is like in that home it sounds like the other children were told what to say/what not to say and they're too young and confused to all have the same story like they were supposed to. And then there's the bruising which does appear to corroborate at least part of the girl's story.

Then we have a pattern of the women moving every time cps are called. Allegations made to cps and the children are taken out of school and homeschooled. The children aren't seen around the home, playing in the garden or anything like that. The children are taken to rallies and festivals and other things the adults were into.

There was also an allegation at some point that the children were punished by being confined to bed without food for a whole day?

And then three months ago the Dekalbs start to have interactions with the family. A girl running to their house in the middle of the night saying she was being abused. The whole family going over there together to apologize and insist everything is fine. But not long after Devonte is going to the Dekalbs and saying food is being withheld and he's starving, and he requests an amount of food that seems to be enough for six kids.

CPS is called by the Dekalbs and three days after CPS knock on the door (to no answer) the family car is found over the edge of a cliff in suspicious circumstances.

This isn't about other families, adoptive or otherwise, black skin, white skin, mixed race, whatever. It's about this Hart family.

As far as I am concerned, adoption is just another way people have children and children have families. Adoptive parents are parents, and I prefer them to be called parents than 'adoptive parents' because that's what they are. Regardless of the adoptions, it sounds like things might have been very wrong in this family for a very long time.

I don't think these women adopted for money, I think they genuinely wanted to help some children who needed a good family. I think there's a high likelihood the children also suffered abuse, and if there's so much confusion over the beating over a bath incident, even if Jen and Sarah said that Devonte had food hoarding issues that come from his early childhood, I'm not sure I'd believe them? Not because i don't believe any child has that issue, but because of the bruising, a child scared in the middle of the night running to another house instead of a parent or sibling, more than one allegation of food deprivation being a part of punishments in that house.
 
RSBM

Also agree. ^^^
Was the KKK really targeting them ??
Not saying it never happens... but these 'parents' seemed to possibly have some kind of 'martyr' complex :
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5569973/Lesbian-couple-plunged-cliff-fled-home-targeted-KKK.html
'I asked Jennifer why and she replied, "Dah, we're two white women, lesbians, with six black kids, so…"
Emphasis mine.

Other people just live their lives and don't give a moments' thought to the perceptions of others who may be ignorant and/or biased. A better choice; imo.

These Hart women seemed to move around a lot. My .02 is that they didn't want people to get to know the children too closely ?
So sad how these kids from the young adult down to the littlest were failed. They deserved better !!!
:moo:

WTH!!! I saw you guys talking about *thing * and Turpins...and I had no idea what you were talking about until I saw this Photograph.

oh my gosh!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ple-plunged-cliff-fled-home-targeted-KKK.html

Screenshot_20180402-182630.jpg
 
They had no reason to be driving recklessly. They were pulled over. If the leap off the cliff was planned; why kill yourselves and three kids??? Must be pretty bad what happened to the other three.
 
I don't think most parents are like those examples, I am scared these two might have been like that. I think they did have a lot of honest hopes and desires in choosing to have a family and in how they raised the children, I'm just worried that maybe they couldn't live up to their own hopes, and that in some ways they might have tried to imprint too much of themselves onto the children. I don't think these things are normal in parents, adoptive or otherwise, but I do think it can happen sometimes. I would think they both felt that taking the children to political rallies was a good thing...I guess I think they probably rationalized everything as being a good thing for the children, but it doesn't come across right now as a child-focused family, it feels like all the focus is about the adults and their interests?

We're missing a lot, but the glimpses we are getting seem to lack balance. It's not like we don't have a lot of insight into the kids because they've been hidden for privacy, because the kids have been in the family videos, even one of a teen boy dancing in his underwear. What's missing is glimpses of the children as individuals, their likes and dislikes, their hobbies as opposed to what the moms enjoy doing.

What we've read of the abuse allegation of the girl with bruises on her front and back, aside from the bruising, the girl has added in an allegation of cold baths, head held under water. The other children are all over the place in whether or not they will corroborate her story (no we don't get spanked; yes we do get spanked but with open palms (which wouldn't leave marks like that; she only got a time-out and didn't get spanked (so where did the bruises come from?). I think it was at this point that one of the moms said the girl in question had been lying a lot? With all those variations on what punishment is like in that home it sounds like the other children were told what to say/what not to say and they're too young and confused to all have the same story like they were supposed to. And then there's the bruising which does appear to corroborate at least part of the girl's story.

Then we have a pattern of the women moving every time cps are called. Allegations made to cps and the children are taken out of school and homeschooled. The children aren't seen around the home, playing in the garden or anything like that. The children are taken to rallies and festivals and other things the adults were into.

There was also an allegation at some point that the children were punished by being confined to bed without food for a whole day?

And then three months ago the Dekalbs start to have interactions with the family. A girl running to their house in the middle of the night saying she was being abused. The whole family going over there together to apologize and insist everything is fine. But not long after Devonte is going to the Dekalbs and saying food is being withheld and he's starving, and he requests an amount of food that seems to be enough for six kids.

CPS is called by the Dekalbs and three days after CPS knock on the door (to no answer) the family car is found over the edge of a cliff in suspicious circumstances.

This isn't about other families, adoptive or otherwise, black skin, white skin, mixed race, whatever. It's about this Hart family.

As far as I am concerned, adoption is just another way people have children and children have families. Adoptive parents are parents, and I prefer them to be called parents than 'adoptive parents' because that's what they are. Regardless of the adoptions, it sounds like things might have been very wrong in this family for a very long time.

I don't think these women adopted for money, I think they genuinely wanted to help some children who needed a good family. I think there's a high likelihood the children also suffered abuse, and if there's so much confusion over the beating over a bath incident, even if Jen and Sarah said that Devonte had food hoarding issues that come from his early childhood, I'm not sure I'd believe them? Not because i don't believe any child has that issue, but because of the bruising, a child scared in the middle of the night running to another house instead of a parent or sibling, more than one allegation of food deprivation being a part of punishments in that house.

I agree with the sentiments in your post. But you bolded this part:

This isn't about other families, adoptive or otherwise, black skin, white skin, mixed race, whatever. It's about this Hart family.


I agree. But please keep in mind that I was replying to a post which began by saying:
View Post
"I always feel really weird when white people adopt several kids from a specific race, like, these two only adopted black kids..."


And as an adoptive parent, with two wonderful, amazing mixed race kids, now grown, I cringe at that statement. We adopted kids because we wanted to be parents. It did not matter to us that they would be this race or that. It mattered that we wanted to be parents and love and nurture and raise a family. :baby: :baby:

The race of our kids was not something we sought. We did not set out to 'choose' one race or another. Adoption is a very complicated process and a lot goes into matching up children and families.
 
Could the entire seat with her belted in have come apart from the floor of the vehicle? Maybe that would explain it?
I was in a fairly minor car accident, just rear ended at about 40mph and my seat came apart from the floor board at 2 of the 4 bolts in my 2005 Honda accord. I can only imagine the damage done off of a cliff at 90mph.

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Thinking about Sarah's employment at Kohl's...have there been any statements in any of these articles along the standard lines of, "Fellow employees at Kohls were concerned when Sarah did not show up for work on Saturday." or anything like that?

It might go to state of mind if Sarah just took off from work without notification -- because she knew she wasn't coming back.

Trying to piece together the timeline. Where were they all on Friday that no one came to the door when CPS rang? Do they have only the one car? When is the last time Sarah worked at Kohls?

MOO
 
It's a long road but I think so too. It starts with listening. Again, no idea if that's what happened here, but the way they show off their kids and come off as if they are saviors (and even the way others describe them - everyone loves the kids because the moms are so awesome?) I think it's a possibility. And why would two loving parents (if this was intentional) kill their children and themselves? Maybe they couldn't stand the thought of someone else raising their children? I don't know why but I can think of a few reasons. One weird thing to me is family annihilators are usually men and afaik always act alone.

So what if Sarah was being abused too? Maybe she and the children were planning to run away and somehow Jen found out while on their trip. It seems Jen was the only one prepared for the accident IMO.

I may be getting Sarah and Jen mixed up :thinking:
 
my ABC Nightly News said LE has removed 2 computers and 2 Ipads from the Hart home.
So do we assume these were for the parents' use only? We know they each had their own FB account. Did anyone
else have one?
 
Sorry-- trying to reply to a previous poster.
The element about this case that hurts the most is the asking for food from neighbors. :cry:
Brings back memories of the horrific photos of Adrian Jones. :(

Some of these Hart "parents' " defenders claim they may have just been sightseeing.
Doubtful at night--- and who drives that fast by a cliff ?

They ignored the knocks at the door from CPS, but as soon as CPS left, they decided to go sightseeing hours away. Right. Makes perfect sense to me! /s
 
So what if Sara was being abused too? Maybe she and the children were planning to run away and somehow Jen found out while on their trip. It seems Jen was the only one prepared for the accident IMO.

Good point - maybe only one of them planned it. Leaving an abusive relationship is risky, and it's sad to say but even if Sara wasn't abused but wanted to get the kids away (as in save them from Jen) it makes more sense to me than thinking the moms were in on it together.
 
Thinking about Sarah's employment at Kohl's...have there been any statements in any of these articles along the standard lines of, "Fellow employees at Kohls were concerned when Sarah did not show up for work on Saturday." or anything like that?

It might go to state of mind if Sarah just took off from work without notification -- because she knew she wasn't coming back.

Trying to piece together the timeline. Where were they all on Friday that no one came to the door when CPS rang? Do they have only the one car? When is the last time Sarah worked at Kohls?

MOO

Their second car, a small white coupe was in driveway in several pics.
The next door neighbor said she knew Jen was home when CPS knocked Fri. afternoon. Shortly after Sarah arrived
home from work and then they noticed Sat. morning their SUV was gone. So they left after dark Fri. night.
 
They ignored the knocks at the door from CPS, but as soon as CPS left, they decided to go sightseeing hours away. Right. Makes perfect sense to me! /s
I agree that's one of the biggest red flags to me it speaks for itself. I just don't get why they thought it be smarter to drive all the way to California to drive off a cliff surely their would be one closer if they we're that determined. I will say and maybe I'm alone here maybe they picked that location for a reason. I thought the sights and area looked similar creepily to the area where they filmed Sarah's birthday video. Maybe that's where the mother's decided they would do it because they had some sort of memory or just wanted to be there in nature.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 
my ABC Nightly News said LE has removed 2 computers and 2 Ipads from the Hart home.
So do we assume these were for the parents' use only? We know they each had their own FB account. Did anyone
else have one?

That makes me wonder if this "we're raising our kids without tech" thing is part of these two curating a perfect family image.
 
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