http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1804/05/ptab.01.html [18:00:07] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield and this is "Crime and Justice." Could a mysterious wet cell phone tell us why a mother drove her family off a cliff to their death? Police found it near the California crash site. Producer Bernice Man is covering the story, Bernice? BERNICE MAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That is right, Ashleigh. That cell phone could hold valuable evidence and we are learning tonight, who was and more importantly, who wasn`t wearing a seatbelt. The sheriff will fill us in on the very latest in the investigation. The cell phone found by the road where a family drove off a cliff. Two moms and three of their six adopted children were found dead. After they took that plunge over a week ago. Their three other kids though are still mysteriously missing. Investigators now say it was no accident, it was a crime. That mom stead off that cliff on purpose. The local sheriff joined me just last night to break some disturbing news about Jennifer Hart. Jennifer, who was spotted right here just hours before that crash at a grocery store seemingly buying snacks for the family before continuing that deadly drive. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SHERIFF TOM ALLMAN, MENDOCINO COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: I`m to the point where I no longer am calling this an accident. I`m calling it a crime. And Ashleigh, we haven`t released the name of the driver, but I`m prepared to do that. I just got off the phone with the CHP commander. And Jennifer, the same woman that was in the video from the grocery store is the woman that we believe was driving the vehicle when it crashed. (END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: Tonight, investigators are asking why Jennifer Hart would come to a full stop just 70 feet before the edge of that 100 foot cliff and then pin the gas pedal and drive her family off the cliff. And they may have just found something that could reveal the answer. And maybe even the location of those three still missing children. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ALLMAN: A citizen found a cell phone in the area, alongside of the road that had been wet. We sent it in for forensic to see if we can determine that was one of the Hart`s cell phones. And also a citizen reported several miles south of this location, like in the area of 30 or 40 miles south seeing something in the ocean that looked like it had clothes on it. We had dive teams in the water immediately. And we are rushing to find out what we can. (END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: With me now, Mendocino County Sheriff, Tom Allman, Shane Kavanaugh, the staff writer for Oregonian and on the phone, vehicle engineering expert, Marcus Mazza. Sheriff, I want to begin with you, I know that the details are coming in pretty fast into your office. Sort through them though, the last thing you told me last night, was that you found that wet cell phone. Do you have any forensics on it? ALLMAN: Ashleigh, we don`t have the forensics on it. I do want to make a correction from last night. The CHP has contacted and we have been in touch with them regarding the forensic pathologist information from the adults that died in this situation. And the CHP said clearly with 100 percent certainty that neither one of them weren`t wearing a seatbelt. So at this point, nobody in the car was wearing a seatbelt. BANFIELD: Wow, hey, well, that is a big difference. ALLMAN: That`s a big difference, that`s a big change. BANFIELD: And does that change the dynamic of what you know called a crime. That they were all unbelted. ALLMAN: Well, certainly gives more to the motivation of would everybody perish in a vehicle going off the cliff. And certainly with a seatbelt your odds are better of surviving that crashed, but we don`t know. As I said yesterday, there is a lot of questions on this that we are just not going to know the answer to. But as far as the forensics on a cell phone. No, we don`t have it yet. Remember the cell phone was wet and we are waiting for the cell phone to get as much information as possible, but one of the things we have talked about is because there are no survivors here, this is not going to be a situation where and when information is developed, we are going to withhold it from the press. There is no survivors here. If this was an accident or this was a crime, we are going to let everybody decide from the evidence that we found. [18:05:20] So, we are trying to give you as much information as possible and unfortunately when I said they were seat belted in, it was because people wanted to know and we did have a person that said, they were seat belted but their forensic autopsy clearly says that the injuries they sustained were sustained without any seatbelt getting in the way. BANFIELD: Well, you are right about that. It`s not going to affect any kind of litigation, any court case. What is critical though is the information gets out, because it might just jar the memories of someone who may had seen this family. So throughout the segment Sheriff, I am going to pop up those phone numbers for tips to come in. ALLMAN: Thank you. BANFIELD: Because, you know, this is after Easter break. Right and I think a lot of families from all over the United States might have considered taking Easter break on that beautiful coastline. It is a tourist haven and they may be back in their states now, unaware of what they might have seen. The dispatch line, if you want to talk someone live is 707-463-4086. And if you do not want anyone to know who you are, the unanimous tip line its 707-234-2100. I am going to put those numbers up again, periodically. So, if you didn`t get a chance to take them down, don`t worry. And Sheriff, hopefully we can get to the point where you get other tips. We are at about 20 or so tips. Have they found out -- what you been able to chase down those tips you received? ALLMAN: We haven`t. Now that the storm has come in and we are not in the water and in the air, on boats. We are certainly having deputy sheriffs follow up the tips. And Ashleigh, during the situation like this, we certainly have, as I said last night, we certainly have the psychics who are -- given us this information and people on a -- Ouija board who are giving us information. And honestly -- BANFIELD: It`s not helpful. ALLMAN: -- we are trying to follow-up as much credible tips, as many credible tips that we can get. Some of the information that came in yesterday is in the grocery store photograph. Those were the clothes that she was wearing when her body was found. And also there is a video in a parking lot of the grocery store where we saw the Yukon -- the GMC Yukon there. So, we are very -- and she used the discount card from the grocery store as she made the purchased, so that was under her name. So we are very comfortable stating that is Jennifer there. BANFIELD: That`s the connection, the clothes that she is wearing right there in the last image we have of her so far, of Jennifer Hart, the driver of the vehicle, are the clothes that she was found wearing in that crash scene, behind the wheel at the bottom of the cliff. ALLMAN: Yes. BANFIELD: And that she`d also used that discount card in that Safe Way that linked to her name as well. Let`s go in to the inside of that vehicle if I can, I have an image that I want to show our audience of what that Yukon looks like inside. This is not the Yukon, but it is a similar Yukon, with the two bench seats in the back. That carries eight. So, if you have six kids and two moms, every seat would be filled if in fact all six kids were in the Yukon at the time. Sheriff, I know you have new information for us where you found Sarah, who was the passenger of that vehicle. Where you found her body. ALLMAN: Well, it was still in the vehicle. You know the fact that neither one was seat belted, it`s a, you know the first -- the first 911 call that came in or the first arriving first responder from the fire department clearly stated that there were no -- he didn`t see anything at that point. And then as they went down the cliff, rappelling, that is when they found that there were no survivors. And the two adults were inside the vehicle. BANFIELD: But, did you find Sarah? As I`m seeing some of the forensics. And correct me if I`m wrong here Sheriff, were getting probably around the same time that your office is sorting it, Sarah trapped between the roof and the seats in the rear of that GMC? ALLMAN: Well, that is correct, but remember, the vehicle was found on its roof, so it was -- the engine and the drive train was facing up. And that is a 100 foot cliff. You know, I`m sure that vehicle rolled over several times before it got to the landing space. The landing space was on the -- where the water hits the base of the mountain there. BANFIELD: So then the other issue is the debris down the mountain side. You mentioned that the vehicle may have hit several times and all of this is critical in figuring out whether those three children were thrown from the vehicle, the children who are missing, as well as the other three children who were thrown from the vehicle and were found. The vehicle went down the cliff and there is a picture that I couldn`t help but notice of what looks like a door -- a door to the GMC with an arm rest that is on the side of the cliff. Can you confirm for me that, that photograph in fact is part of the door on the side of that cliff? ALLMAN: I can confirm and yes, it is. That is part of the vehicle that went over. That picture there. Yes. BANFIELD: So that is the image that you are confirming is one of the doors and likely broken off the vehicle as it went -- as it tumbled down the cliff? ALLMAN: Yes. [18:10:00] BANFIELD: And then the other issue is there is a picture of the GMC at the bottom. And if we zero in on it and highlight the -- what would be the passenger`s side door, again, it`s on its roof, but the passenger side door is wide open and almost bent wide open. Did that happened in the crash or was that from the rescue? ALLMAN: I think, we are going to have to wait for the main team, the CHP Specialized Accident Team to give us that information. And there`s certainly ways to find out. I was at the crash scene that day, Ashleigh, and I saw that door open also. But, when the vehicle tumbles like that, there`s many ways that that door could had come open. BANFIELD: It makes sense, but again, so critical to figure out, if you think of the children, they range in age from 19 all the way down to 12 years old, but those are large people. Even a 12-year-old can be like a small adult. And to have that many people in the back, if there were six kids in the back, it`s critical to know what the egresses would have been if those missing three children were in fact thrown from the vehicle and ended up in the sea. To that, if do you know if all of the windows were all broken out? Because those GMC`s have very large back windows which would be big enough for people to be thrown through the vehicle. ALLMAN: When I saw the vehicle laying on its roof, it was clear that the bottom part of the vehicle, if it was right side up had smashed down to the roof of the vehicle. So, while I didn`t see the vehicle when it was towed up, I would be very surprised if any windows were left intact. BANFIELD: Also have you -- do you know if the sun roof was open when the vehicle went off? ALLMAN: I don`t. And whether the sun roof was open or not, I think we are just going to see it was broken, because that is the part that landed on the main rocks. I remember when I looked down -- BANFIELD: OK. I know your -- yes, sorry, go ahead. ALLMAN: -- well, you can`t see it, but the front bumper had a very clear V in it, so one of the first thing the vehicle hit was a rock or something when it lands and you could see the front bumper was pushed in, basically in the middle and push back well past the radiator. BANFIELD: All right. I know you are looking all the way down the coast and we have counted from the distance that they traveled from Newport to Fort Bragg. We have counted about 35 different gas stations. And you mentioned it yourself, it takes more than one tank to get down that route. Have you been able to contact all those gas stations and checked surveillance video along the way? ALLMAN: We have not. We are certainly working with the Oregon partners to see if there is any additional information. One of the things that we have done is we have put flyers out all along our coast with the information. You know, that even though this is a new story at the national level, there are certainly people who are not aware of it and we are putting the information out on pullouts to see if anybody has found anything, to call us immediately. BANFIELD: OK. I want to bring in Marcus Mazza As I can, as a crash investigator, can you help me sort through Marcus, whether it`s possible for four -- of sorry, six, you know -- people, I will say people, because they were not little children, to have found egress from that vehicle. And the reason I ask that is because it`s unknown if they were in the car when it went over, but they sure were not in it or near it when investigators found the other three. Would it have been easy for all six passengers in the back to have been thrown from that vehicle? MARCUS MAZZA, VEHICLE ENGINEERING EXPERT, ROBSON FORENSIC (VIA TELEPHONE): I mean, yes, it`s very dependent on obviously the exact crash dynamics and how violently that vehicle tumbled on its way down the cliff, but obviously, you know, with the windows all being broken out and that vehicle tumbling down a cliff like that, it is possible that many people could be ejected from the vehicle, yes. BANFIELD: OK. And then real quickly, Shane Kavanaugh, I know that the search warrant for the Washington home had police looking for a list of things. I am just going to list them off real quickly. Travel itineraries, bank records, phone records, credit card receipts, hotel receipts, restaurant receipts, hand written or type journals or notes related to travel and care of children and or suicide notes. Anything material actually show up in those search warrants? Do we know if they caught or found any of that material? SHANE KAVANAUGH, STAFF WRITER, THE OREGONIAN: It doesn`t appear that they found any of that material, Ashleigh. I spoke to the Park County Sheriff`s Office, what they recovered from the Hart`s family home was one laptop and one iPad. And then in the process tight now of downloading all the information from those two devices, to see if there are any sort of clues or leads into this investigation. But they did not recover any of those other items from the home that you mentioned and they do not recover a suicide note. BANFIELD: But they sure did find a pet and chickens and looked as though they were not planning to be on these trip for long. Hopefully that pet is now in good care, but seriously, I mean, with there are so many -- so many more questions unanswered than answered at this early stage of this mystery. We are going to continue to follow it. [18:15:03] My thanks to Shane Kavanaugh, Sheriff Tom Allman and also Marcus Mazza, for helping us sort through this. We are going to do more on this story in our top hour at 7:00, 45 minutes still from now. So, join us then as well. We will have another person joining us as well with additional information on this story. Next hour of "Crime and Justice" starts right now. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Tonight a road trip tragedy takes a dark turn. [19:00:01] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I no longer am calling this an accident. I am calling it a crime. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Three of the kids are still missing after a family drove off a cliff. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was pinned at 90 miles per hour. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): This is the behind the wheel just hours before the crash. Did she plunge that car off the cliff on purpose? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They came through our county hopefully to be tourist and something happened. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And does a wet cell phone they just found --. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cell phone alongside the road that had been wet --. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- hold clues to a family that may have been less than perfect. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child told authority her mother Jennifer struck her and submerged her in water and withheld food from her. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They didn`t have a voice. They didn`t have anybody else to go to. Even in the world`s most remote and scenic places, there is trash discarded on the side of the road and no one pays that much tension. But yesterday in Mendocino County, California, a discarded cell phone is getting national headlines. Because it`s not just any cell phone, it is one that may have been water log. And it was found near the spot where a family flue off a 100-foot cliff, crashing and dying down below. Could that phone yield any clues to this tragic mystery? A potential homicide seven times over? Because investigators now say this was no accident. This was on purpose. The local sheriff joined me last night to break some disturbing news about one of the moms who was here, spotted at this grocery store, the morning before the crash, seemingly just buying healthy snacks for the family before getting behind the wheel of that deadly vehicle. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SHERIFF TOM ALLMAN, MENDOCINO COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT: I`m to the point where I no longer calling this an accident. I`m calling it a crime. And Ashleigh, we haven`t released the name of the driver but I`m prepared to do that. I just got off the phone with the CHB commander. And Jennifer, the same woman that was in the video from the grocery store is the woman that we believe was driving the vehicle when it crashed. (END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: Tonight, investigators are asking why Jennifer Hart would come to a stop just 70 feet before the cliff`s edge before flooring it and launching her family off that cliff. Now that they have that cell phone, is it something that will lead to answers? Will it reveal clues and maybe, just maybe, even they find those three kid who is are still missing? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ALLMAN: A citizen found a cell phone in the area alongside of the road that had been wet. We have sent it in for forensics to see if we can determine that was one of the Hart`s cell phones. And also a citizen reported several miles south of this location like an area of 33 miles south seeing something in the ocean that looked like it had clothes on it. We had dive teams in the water immediately. And we are rushing to find out what we can. (END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: With me live again tonight, Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman. Also with me, anchor for HLN`s WEEKEND EXPRESS Lynn Smith and telecommunications expert Ben Levitan. Sheriff, if I can begin with you. The newest, we are looking for whatever information you may have been able to glean from that cell phone. A wet cell phone certainly does sound like a good clue, is it? ALLMAN: It is. And remember, Ashleigh, that a cell phone itself, that piece of plastic and metal is not the only piece of evidence that we get from a cell phone number. We can certainly do or serve in search warrants on the cell phone provider to see the text messages and the calls that were made or the calls that came in. So all of this is happening as fast as we are talking about it. My hope that by early next week, we would be able to get some more of this information. BANFIELD: I put the tip line up for specific reason, sheriff. If it done on the earlier, that because it was Easter break last week for a lot of schools across America, a lot of Americans may have travelled to your coastline because it is a tourist destination. And they may have gone home by now. So this is a national network program. And if there is anybody, anywhere other than California who took a trip there with your family perhaps for Easter break, and you happened to notice this modern family, tow moms and perhaps six children with them, driving a silvery gray Yukon SUV. It`s a big car. GMC Yukon with black rims. Looks like this with the black rims. This is another vehicle that is almost exactly the same except for those rims. Instead of silver, black rims. If you happened to have seen that and you have gone home and you are forgetting about the vacation, but something jars your memory about this family, there is a lot of questions and not a lot of answers, sheriff, about the journey that they took, that ominous photo that that has taken at the supermarket just hours before Jennifer Hart plunged that family off the cliff. Tell me a little bit about why you knew that that was Jennifer. Because both of the moms actually look quite similar. How did you know it was her in that photo? [19:06:08] ALLMAN: They do look similar. And first of all, let`s get to the vehicle that was in the grocery store parking lot, certainly was a GMC Yukon that matched the description of the one that had gone over the cliff. And second, as Jennifer purchased the fruit and whatever, she used her club card from that grocery store and the clothes that you can see she is wearing in that photograph were the clothes that were on her when her body was recovered from the ocean. BANFIELD: And her body was recovered in the driver`s seat, correct? ALLMAN: That`s correct. In the front seat area, how about this? In the front area, you know. The car tumble-yes. BANFIELD: But it`s clear, even though, she was on the front seat area, that she was the driver as you mentioned last night, not Sarah, not her wife, Sarah? ALLMAN: That`s correct. BANFIELD: And then also, let`s clear something up from last night. As the details come in, I understand processing them quickly and getting them out, there can be something lost in translation. They actually were not in seat belts, correct? They were, just like the children, unbuckled. ALLMAN: Actually, you are correct. Nobody was seatbelt while the vehicle went off. And that information is coming in from how the bodies were located and also from the autopsies, a seat belt would leave obvious injuries to a body whether you survive or not, you are going to be able to see some bruising across the chest and that bruising was not there. BANFIELD: Sheriff, the fact that they were all unbuckled when they went off that cliff, is that another one of the factors that has led to you this conclusion that this was no accident? This was intention? This is a crime? ALLMAN: It certainly leads us to believe it`s more of an intentional act than an accident, yes. BANFIELD: There is video surveillance at the parking lot at that supermarket where Jennifer and Sarah were with the children and that GMC. Have you been able to see -- I understand it`s not easy when you are dealing with a supermarket chain to get. They require warrant. It`s a hard process. It is not immediate. Have you at least seen the video? ALLMAN: My investigators have seen the video. And as I explained to them one of our goals on this, this case is not going to go to criminal court. It may go to civil court, we don`t know. But if it is not going to criminal court, then we have no reason to keep this evidence and withhold it from the press. And so, once that evidence is able to be released, we are going to bury and release it. You know, this is something that I hope that a lot of lessons can be learned from. Whether it`s the CPS investigation, whether it is mental health, whether it is driving, who knows what, Ashleigh? But we need to know how this happened? Why this happened? And what can we do to prevent this from happening again? (CROSSTALK) BANFIELD: Sir, go ahead. ALLMAN: And when the picture of Devonte was hugging the Portland sergeant here and it went through the Internet two years ago, we fell in love with Devonte. And as a law enforcement officer, I felt sorry for that. I felt for that Portland sergeant there. And that man himself, I never met him, I don`t know his name, but he is certainly feeling the pain of this loss also. So Devonte is still missing. So one of the things we haven`t talk about is if you are traveling our county or any county between Portland and Mendocino County and you happened to have seen three kissed hitch hiking or walking down the street, give us a call. That is information we need, you know. We are not going to go out and say 100 percent certain that these three children have perished until we recover their bodies. And if they were lashed out ahead of time and they were hitch hiking and then they are hiding in the woods, we need that information. We need the help of this. BANFIELD: And sheriff, we have the dispatch numbers up there again on the screen, 707-463-4086 to talk to someone, a live person, an anonymous tip line. You can just leave your information and stay anonymous at 707-234- 2100. We will continue to put the lineup as well. ALLMAN: Thanks, Ashleigh. BANFIELD: So if you didn`t get this time, don`t worry. We are going to continue to do it. Sheriff, you said something interesting. Your investigator saw the video, even though you don`t have oppression of it yet. And I know you do plan to release it. Did your investigator tell you yet, whether you could see how many were in the vehicle at the safe way? ALLMAN: It couldn`t. And we can`t see the license plate itself, you know. The video camera is up high. And it wasn`t able - we were not able to get a lot of information other than certainly it matches a description and then, you know, you are seeing Jennifer in there. We certainly can surmise it was the same vehicle. [19:10:18] BANFIELD: One other question for you. Were all of the windows in the GMC blown out from the impact of that crash or from hitting the cliff on the way down? Because we do know now that the vehicle did made impact with the cliff on the way down. There is a car door I believe that was found partially ripped off and on the cliff side above the debris that is in the ocean. And I know we have the photograph. So let`s -- there is the car door or portion of a car door that was found on the way down. Do you know if all the windows were blown out? ALLMAN: I certainly heard that the windows were broken, but let me talk about the CHP MAIT team, the multidisciplinary Accident Investigation Team. These are some of the very best that California has to offer for accident investigation. And the CHP, they are ones in-charge of the accident investigation. My agency is in-charge with the coroner`s investigation. We are in-charge of the missing person investigation as well as search and rescue. And then the law enforcement officers in Clark county under the (INAUDIBLE), they are the ones who are working that case with the CPS allegations. BANFIELD: And the reason I ask with those windows, sheriff, you know, is that it is so - obviously, there is still this mystery left to be solved, several mysteries. But are the most pressing is are those three children still missing somewhere or did they end up being thrown from the vehicle and washed timeout sea? Which is why I asked about the windows. A GMC has huge, huge side windows in the back and has a big rear window as well. So if the windows were all blown out, it might be more plausible that that children were thrown those three missing children were also thrown from the vehicle as well as the three children who were found dead outside the vehicle, you know, in the crash zone, right? ALLMAN: It is. And Ashleigh, an unpleasant part of this conversation and I work in Mendocino County for 34 years, and when we had drownings, (INAUDIBLE), or fishermen drownings, sometimes a bodies won`t surface for a month or so. It depends upon the temperature of the water, the flow of the ocean, and so forth. And as pleasant as it is, we certainly have the knowledge and the ability to predict where and when a body would surface. And that`s what we are looking at. And so, we are looking at the storms and we are notifying every county along the coast of California. This is what we are looking for and southern Oregon. BANFIELD: And sheriff, a little more new information tonight as well. We know Jennifer was in the front seat. She had been the driver. Where was Sarah Hart`s body found in that vehicle? ALLMAN: She was inside the vehicle. She was not thrown out like the children. The two adults - they were inside the vehicle. BANFIELD: In the back seat area? Is that correct? ALLMAN: I don`t want to misspeak. I know that - you know, because it had landed on its roof, crashed, I don`t want to misspeak and say where it is. But all of this information is going to get out to you and the other press -- members of the press as soon as we get it from the CHP. BANFIELD: I`m looking at a replica inside - photograph inside the GMC. It had two bench seats which, you know, if you think about having a large family, two parents and six children, you would need the two bench seats. Three children per seat. But I did read through some material, the search warrant suggested that Sarah was trapped between the roof and the seats in the rear of the vehicle. And that`s why - I`m just wondering if you knew if she was between one of those benches in the back when she was thrown. But let me ask you this, and I think this is critical. Was the sun roof open? Is it possible that on the way down, one of the children at the back may have ended up going out the sun roof? ALLMAN: It is possible. Anything is possible, you know. And certainly, can talk to vehicle experts that will say this. But you are missing one thing, too, Ashleigh. If these folks were visiting as tourists into our county, where are the suitcases? Where are the camping equipment? Where a lot of things they should have for a family of eight. There is a lot of stuff for going on vacation. And we haven`t found a lot of that. BANFIELD: That`s extremely curious. And again, I`m going to put that tip line up because other people were on vacationing in that area and thy may have been vacationing over Easter break and this might jog their memory. That set of tip line is there. It is invaluable. If you think you may have seen that GMC, if you think you might have seen this family at the Safeway or anywhere along the coastline as well. I want to get to Ben Levitan, if I can. Ben, the cell phone, I know we are waiting on the forensics of it, but if it was wet or water logged, does that compromise any information it might have? BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (on the phone): Well, Ashleigh, basically, a cell phone is plastic. As soon as it hit the water, the battery shorted out and the (INAUDIBLE) -- it`s going to be OK when it drives up. But the sheriff is exactly right. We don`t need the cell phone to do analysis. There is potentially eight devices. It`s possible that everybody in this car had a device and the kids got away, possibly they had their devices. So there is two things we do. I think the sheriff is already - imply that the cell phone companies are doing this. They can ping those phones to see if they are alive, if the phones are active. And that ping will give us the location if those kids are out there with the phone. Second thing we can do it a cell powered dump. [19:15:25] BANFIELD: Sorry, I have to wrap it there only because I`m up against a hard break. But it is good to know that there is still data that can be recovered on the cloud as well. My thanks to both of you. Sheriff Allman, thank you so much. I look forward to having you back as we continue to get this information. Ben Levitan as well. I appreciate that from both of you.