CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

Discussion in '2010's Missing' started by cybervampira, Mar 28, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DatelineFan

    DatelineFan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure, but that doesn't mean the kids were severely troubled or anything. Kids tend to be fairly resilient. My point is that it seems like these women possibly exaggerated the problems the kids had. And either way, they didn't do anything to help by isolating, exploiting, and abusing them.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     


  2. DatelineFan

    DatelineFan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are so many issues that go into the answers to this that we wouldn't be able to even scratch the surface here on WS!

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  3. kkdj

    kkdj Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,856
    Likes Received:
    62,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Is it possible Devonte had a girlfriend? could jealousy have played a part in this? idk.....just exploring thoughts as to what makes people do wild and crazy things.
     
  4. Sleuth99

    Sleuth99 New Member

    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think it's fair to make a distinction here. I agree that the children must have went through and or faced a high level of abuse and/or neglect before being adopted if they went through the system.

    But not all abuse leads to trauma. There is no evidence that they suffered serious physical or psychological injury let alone developed behavioral issues before the Harts adopted them. Any thing that alludes to that is assumed. And these assumptions are being used as foundations for hypothesizing why these women were not able to be better parents, or what could have incited their actions and abuse toward the children and it's not fair. Like I said, I'm tired of it and it's unsubstantiated.


    IMO
     
  5. DatelineFan

    DatelineFan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Where was he going to meet or spend time with a girlfriend?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  6. kkdj

    kkdj Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,856
    Likes Received:
    62,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    idk. online? Maybe a plan she discovered? No basis for my random thought, just thinking about what makes a person do wild and crazy things. Jealousy is a top of the lister imo.
     
  7. katydid23

    katydid23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    60,223
    Likes Received:
    155,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I never said the kids were troubled.

    I was replying to a post where it was said there was no evidence the kids had experienced high trauma in childhood.

    I think that if social services terminate your parent's parental rights, and no one else in your extended family can take you in, that must be very traumatic. JMO

    I think they did have a very troubled childhood environment. That does not mean they were troubled. But I do think they experienced a lot of trauma, negligence and stress during their early formative years.
     
  8. DatelineFan

    DatelineFan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,775
    Likes Received:
    948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think all of this started at least 10 years ago...

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  9. human

    human Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    23,611
    Likes Received:
    27,907
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Hart mothers didn’t appear to have a lot of close social contacts at all, Mendocino County Sheriff Thomas Allman said.

    “They didn’t have a whole slew of friends,” the sheriff said.

    While social media posts from people who claimed to have known the family suggest that Jennifer and Sarah Hart belonged to some type of community, it is unclear if the Harts frequently socialized in person, or if they primarily kept in touch with their friends online. As CrimeOnline previously reported, a woman who knew the family when they lived in Minnesota said that the Harts were part of a large “tribe” that followed the same musicians and went to the same music festivals. The woman said that she only saw the Harts at these festivals, when she would often camp beside them, and stayed in touch with Jennifer and Sarah Hart on social media after they moved to the Pacific Northwest.

    CrimeOnline has attempted to contact several people believed to be part of this community, and nearly all of them have not responded.
     
  10. SATA

    SATA Active Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Online.
    Or maybe just a friend or friends.
    Like the Turpin girl who was the one to break free and open the gates.

    Something else.
    We are talking so much about the kids being adopted.
    They have bio families. I am wondering if they are aware of this tragedy possibly and recognize their children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews.
    Painful to think about.
     
  11. georgiajean

    georgiajean Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    bbm

    at risk of going far off topic, this is a very loaded subject. Who in our society has the highest rates of poverty, homelessness, and unemployment/underemployment? Who is still suffering the monstrous economic impacts of slavery? Who is still heavily impacted by prejudice, racism, and discrimination?

    Some facts:
    The numbers of black children entering the foster pipeline actually decreased in 2015, and the numbers of white children entering the foster pipeline increased. However, the numbers are still far from proportionate to population. https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFS/foster.pdf

    The foster system is most aggressive about removing black and indigenous children from their homes. A higher proportion of black children (and their families) are involved in the system, compared to white, Asian, and Hispanic children and families. This goes back to the colonial and slavery roots of this country. Race and class are closely intertwined.... If you came here willingly, or were not indigenous, you are likely to do ok. https://isreview.org/issue/91/race-and-class-us-foster-care-system

    Black children make up 2/5 of the foster care numbers, but just 1/5 of the nation's population is black. Is this because black parents are worse parents? No. Struggling or downright bad parents are equally distributed among different ethnic groups. (Just as the rate of marijuana use is similar regardless of race, but a higher proportion of blacks are in jail/prison for marijuana crimes than whites). However, it means that a GREATER PROPORTION of black foster families would be needed to support these children with same-race/ethnicity foster parents. It makes sense that there would be a shortage of black families able and willing to foster or adopt, especially given these families are more likely to be struggling financially themselves. Black children, nationwide, are 2x more likely to be in foster care, while white children are less likely. https://www.ncjfcj.org/sites/default/files/Disproportionality TAB1_0.pdf

    Black kids are harder to find adoptive parents for, as well (also tied to systemic racism and prejudice that goes back to slavery). Thus, the price to adopt is much less. $36K for a white child, $18K for a black child. It is meant to encourage adoption of black children. But it reeks of systemic racism. http://foster-care-newsletter.com/human-discount-black-children-cost-less-adopt/#.WshDSS7wbDc

    I apologize to go off on this tangent. I worried about the phrase "so few POC stepping up to foster/adopt them" because the words "stepping up" implies lack of effort/care. Perhaps that is not what you intended though! :)
     
    msdizzydolores likes this.
  12. Gooddeeds

    Gooddeeds Former Member

    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All good points. This is why it’s fair and realistic to say these kids did experience real trauma prior to being adopted by the Harts. There is no way around that. By the time the bio parents are cited and removed much has taken place.
     
  13. georgiajean

    georgiajean Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
    This is not why I was discussing the matter. Adverse Childhood Experiences create trauma. Attachment issues create real struggles for kids. Reactive Attachment Disorder is real and is overwhelming. I work in the school system, and ACEs and Trauma/Resilience are two main areas of my work. I was saying that pretty much anyone would likely struggle to provide the home these children needed, especially all six of them. But pretty much no one would create the abusive environment these women appear to have created. I have watched many families go through great lengths to support their adoptive or foster children. It is not easy, and the vast majority do an incredible job and give children the chance to live a good life. Some are not up to the challenge and sadly are not able to follow through, and send children back to the system.

    My point was, the two women were not capable or able to reach out for help and never should have been approved to adopt.
     
  14. kkdj

    kkdj Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,856
    Likes Received:
    62,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    kerplunk in my heart! Their poor families. :tears:
     
  15. kkdj

    kkdj Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,856
    Likes Received:
    62,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What are the criteria to adopt? What is the agencies benefit if the children are adopted?
     
  16. Gooddeeds

    Gooddeeds Former Member

    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thanks Jinkasauros for the quiz, I think its a good and realistic one. I am always told I can read minds but in reality its the faces/eyes that I glean the most from.
    Score-38
     
  17. human

    human Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    23,611
    Likes Received:
    27,907
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think it is listed here somewhere. I don’t remember which poster .
     
  18. Hatfield

    Hatfield Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,014
    Likes Received:
    59,034
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thanks for sharing that test. A lot of the cases we review will have interviews, news coverage, or photos of people and we sometimes have to interpret people and their reactions.

    I did better than I thought I would.
    Score:31/36

    I think what helped me in the test was I tried to come up with my own word that described how they were feeling before I looked at the options. And if I saw an option that closely matched my original word then I figured it was a right guess. Some were hard to tell and I had to really study them. It taught me that it pays to take time to really study someone before assuming something.

    Very interesting and thanks for sharing.
     
  19. georgiajean

    georgiajean Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    48
  20. SATA

    SATA Active Member

    Messages:
    995
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Then you blew the bank, the limit is 36.

    Guess it´s a typo. :loveyou:
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice