CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

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Every day I am hoping that the LE has SOMETHING.

I am actually incredulous that they have so little. Like some sightings of the family on that long trip.
THREE kids missing and two dogs + items from the car.
Something ought to show up.

P.S. Guess people are deeply buried in their cell phones.
 
Re Heidi's post above:



Some good questions. But we also need to consider that society and its supportive message of 'safety' is not always at issue, here. To a deeply disturbed or narcissistic parent it's never safe to let others know the truth of your basic human imperfection. (Assuming such a parent could even acknowledge it herself.)

Bingo! You got it! If you read up on family annihilators, there are several common reasons a dominant, narcissistic

parent/spouse takes out the whole family: The one that fit Jen is that she was about to be exposed as a "failure"

as a parent. Her public image as the do-gooder was about to be shattered by the CPS charges surely to be soon

levied against her by the now older, more believable children. Something had to be done (in her mind).

Sarah may not have even known what was coming. If Sarah was an abused, mistreated, submissive spouse, maybe

she was as innocent as the children.
 
That article states that it is "likely" that the incident with the belt happened within the trial period for the adoption of the first set of siblings. This is when the two of them (allegedly) lied and said that the child fell down the stairs. The police closed the case. I know that hindsight is 20/20 and I know next to nothing about the case except what I read in the paper, but I have tears in my eyes at what seems to be warning flags everywhere. :(

Still sad, but I think the 2008 belt incident with the 6 year old was possibly in the trial period for the second set of sibs, adopted in Feb 2009. The first set was adopted in '06 per that article.
 
I'm just going to assume you've spent very little time with people who have adopted children out of situations like that if you think long term trauma or behavioral issues are something you can't assume or are uncommon. No one is justifying abuse because of this. But it's just sort of basic child development. Being abused while the brain is developing does not typically lead to healthy and resilient children with no long term problems.

I think there is a real disconnect in your comment to readily admit the children must have been through "a high level of abuse and or neglect" but that no one has the right to assume it lead to any long term issues with the children. Sorry, but children are NOT that resilient. And all the research out there substantiates this. Why would anyone attempt to downplay the long term effects of childhood neglect and abuse?

We can't simultaneously want children removed from abusive situations and then try and deny the long term effects of that abuse on the children. It doesn't absolve anyone who further mistreats them by admitting the long term difficulties they face! But it's not fair to anyone to deny the problems. It's especially not fair to the children. It's only acknowledgement of the issues and needs that helps insure that these children and their families get the support they need. And, yes, the families need support. The act of adoption doesn't actually automatically qualify any adult to deal with the psychological needs of children who are abused.

Families who adopt and the children they adopt need MORE long term support and care. And they need it in large part due to the very high rate of long term issues due to any previous abuse.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK195987/

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/long_term_consequences.pdf

My points are dangerously being misinterpreted. I said abuse doesn't always lead to trauma. That is true. I said there wasn't any concrete evidence of physical or psychological injury. Let me know if I missed it please.

I didn't claim children were super resilient or immune to effects of long term abuse. I simply pointed out that the Hart children's narrative was being shaped based on prevalent incidents, cases of high trauma in other children. I'm not challenging the high correlation of high trauma and children in foster care I'm simply saying that no matter how high the correlation is to say that a child had certain disorders or effects from high trauma is an assumption. It's not evidence.

And there is a alarming leap that we make when we use assumptions to confidently explore what influenced the parents behavior especially when there are red flags that highly suggest that these women were not right in the mind and at least one of them could have had a personality disorder.

I'm not challenging anyone's knowledge or experiences working with children of this population. My problem was the way their experiences and knowledge of past instances were used to discuss this situation.

I hope that helps. 🤷🏾*♀️ I'm done with it.




IMO
 
Re Heidi's post above:



Some good questions. But we also need to consider that society and its supportive message of 'safety' is not always at issue, here. To a deeply disturbed or narcissistic parent it's never safe to let others know the truth of your basic human imperfection. (Assuming such a parent could even acknowledge it herself.)

I have seen this first hand.
My mother was narcissistic and had some other issues as well.
She was an extremely beautiful and intelligent woman. She had EVERYONE fooled - except the very close family.
My teachers were in awe of her - I never told them about the hell we grew up in.
Wasn´t hell all the time, but MUCH of the time, have to be fair to her.
BTW, I was the "golden child", my middle sister the "scapegoat", My oldest sister got it hard too, but at least she was loved.
It really is a pattern with narcissists.
My mother withheld FOOD from my sister when she was 14-15, THAT was HORRIBLE!!!!
I was 9-10 at that time and couldn´t really do anything.
 
Can someone provide a link in which specifies that the dogs were with the family when it crashed? I have not read any reports or articles about the dogs being in the SUV. So is this factual or just what people are assuming?
 
Maybe I have just not seen this information yet, but I am wondering why we have not learned more about the life of JH and her circumstances prior to the first adoption. Where was she born, where did she grow up, go to school, work, meet SH etc.? The info that seems to be out there is 2006 and beyond, or perhaps I have missed it. But that background info from prior to 2006 is just as important to help make some kind of sense of this horrific tragedy, don’t you think?
 
So Sarah has this educational background that should provide her with the knowledge and skills to educate troubled kids. The school article mentions they didn't start until 7 months after the 2nd adoption was finalized, so Sept '09. And one child didn't start in kindergarten until 2010.

Were they homeschooling before that? I wonder if Sarah tried and realized she didn't have the patience for it? I'm not sure exactly what her work history looks like.

I saw a couple of strange things reported only once. One article that said they'd learned all the kids are biologically related. A family friend (Max or Nahko) said 5 kids came from the same environment, except the oldest boy.

Did they adopt the first set and feel like it was actually going ok? Then, the savior complex kicks in for one or both bc "we just have to try to adopt their cousins!"

Admitting you are wrong and sending kids back after they have entered your home must be tough for the most self-aware & selfless parents. Add a touch of perfectionist or narcissist and admitting that kind of failure is almost impossible.

I am really feeling there are signs that at least on woman was overwhelmed and would've asked for help, but the other woman was having NONE of it. Everything is PERFECT.

I hope they all perished in the crash or D&S are on the run together. Unless Hannah is really 12, she looked frail and I think the three of them would stick out like a sore thumb. If D&S got out, they could probably hide in plain sight. Aren't there homeless communities out there in CA or are they too far north? D would protect S as best he could, I think. If he wasn't flashing his big D smile, maybe scowling a warning, and they stuck something under her shirt to look pregnant or something... people would leave them alone? That's where I'm at right now. Opinion subject to change.
 
Can someone provide a link in which specifies that the dogs were with the family when it crashed? I have not read any reports or articles about the dogs being in the SUV. So is this factual or just what people are assuming?

There has been no information verified that the dogs were in the vehicle.

It's more likely that they were if information now coming out shows Jen to be considered a "family annihilator".

these individuals usually want to eleminate the entire family so if the dogs were like family, there you go.
 
Can someone provide a link in which specifies that the dogs were with the family when it crashed? I have not read any reports or articles about the dogs being in the SUV. So is this factual or just what people are assuming?

I think no one knows.
 
Maybe I have just not seen this information yet, but I am wondering why we have not learned more about the life of JH and her circumstances prior to the first adoption. Where was she born, where did she grow up, go to school, work, meet SH etc.? The info that seems to be out there is 2006 and beyond, or perhaps I have missed it. But that background info from prior to 2006 is just as important to help make some kind of sense of this horrific tragedy, don’t you think?

Most of what you asked is out there. Born/raised in Huron, S.D, has 2 or 3 siblings, met SH at college- Northwest State
in S.D. don't know about work history. Nothing has been reported about her childhood from friends or family.
 
Can someone provide a link in which specifies that the dogs were with the family when it crashed? I have not read any reports or articles about the dogs being in the SUV. So is this factual or just what people are assuming?

The dogs were not found at the site. It's that there were news stories that there was evidence that the family owned two dogs, which were not there when LE investigated the home. People then conjectured that the family took the dogs with them.
 
I wonder how much of this information is provided to potential adoptive parents. ?? Or are potential parents so enamored with acquiring children that they overlook these future problems?
Thanks for you enlightening comments, Blue. I agree with you.

This aspect reminds me of the “Hartley Hooligans” family.

http://www.thehartleyhooligans.com/?m=1

The mother gave birth to one typical child and then to a daughter with a rare and severe genetic disorder. This child requires enormous resources just to stay alive. Even though doctors counseled the family to not have any more children, she wanted another. The third child has the same syndrome as the second. So now the family has two severely disabled children to care for, when, frankly, their plate was already full.

There has been lots of opining that the mother is exploiting the children via her blog. They can’t consent to what she’s doing, and she shares some very intimate details of their health and bodies. And she seems to revel in the adulation of “You’re so amazing to be able to handle all this!”

My point is that sometimes people VOLUNTEER for a heavy burden in some sort of martyr olympics.

Jen and Sarah didn’t have to adopt another three troubled children, and they already had a challenging task. The Hartley woman didn’t have to take on another child, especially when warned that the child could also be disabled.

They get some sort of psychological payoff — and it’s the children who suffer.
 
I was replying to someone but my app crashed...

There are large homeless populations in both Portland and Seattle (where Hannah wanted the neighbors to take her iirc) and the numbers of teen runaways in the US is staggering. I may just be too optimistic but I think if the three missing siblings did run away as Devonte’s requests for less perishable foods would suggest, that they may be hiding in one of these communities. The disappearance of those three along with CPS caseworker visiting certainly could have been the catalyst that made whichever parent snap.


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IF the three weren't in the crash (which in my mind is a big if) I seriously doubt they will reveal themselves to anyone. They are going to hide at least until they are all above 18. They would have zero trust in the system to take care of them nor would they want to be split up. MOO.
 
The number of young homeless people I saw in Portland was staggering- I’m guessing late teens to early 20s. Many strung out on drugs, sleeping in the parks in groups, lying on the sidewalks, stumbling around like zombies. Broke my Mom heart 💔
 
Maybe I have just not seen this information yet, but I am wondering why we have not learned more about the life of JH and her circumstances prior to the first adoption. Where was she born, where did she grow up, go to school, work, meet SH etc.? The info that seems to be out there is 2006 and beyond, or perhaps I have missed it. But that background info from prior to 2006 is just as important to help make some kind of sense of this horrific tragedy, don’t you think?

South Dakota. She is sleuthable, but you can't bring what you learn about her family members over here. She grew up there, but I'm not positive that she was born there. Jennifer Jean Hart. JMO
 
per this article....Campbell, a professor and researcher at Johns Hopkins Univ. School of Nursing said,

" Abusers often hurt loved ones because of trauma in their own childhood."

I wholeheartedly agree, Jen was a very damaged individual who should never have been 'given' 6 little souls.
Sarah, too. Neither of them should have had those kids!

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I wonder if there was or will be funeral/memorial services for the victims and for JH and SH and who took responsibility for all that?
 
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