CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

Discussion in '2010's Missing' started by cybervampira, Mar 28, 2018.

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  1. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    I have limited personal experience and a degree of second hand experience from friends who have actually adopted. That aside, the best answer to the questions might be "Its complex".

    Many states have streamlined adoption processes that in the past were slow moving bueracratic machines with complex and sometimes contradictory requirements that turned people away from adopting children in need. That does not mean that all suitability testing and standards have gone out the window.

    Rather, it means that one needs to show that they are willing and that they can manage as a parent. One does not need to be on track for winning say, Family of the Year award from First Baptist Church of Smallville, nor does one need to nominated as a "Progressive Parent of the Year" by a talk show.

    Then factor in that some bad parents deteriorate slowly. During the assessment phase, they are fine. Problems develop later.
     


  2. Sherlockhemlock

    Sherlockhemlock Well-Known Member

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    It’s Northern State in Aberdeen SD.
     
  3. Zelda1010

    Zelda1010 Active Member

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    I know I make some excuses for Sarah, but this I agree with. Sarah was also a damaged individual and neither one of them should have had those kids.
     
  4. SATA

    SATA Active Member

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    I am seriously beginning to think that there should be some extra monitoring of children hoarder families (families with a large number of children).

    I am also following the Turpin case, and in that connection I started to look into those large families to learn about the dynamics.
    Some of them seem to be loving and caring (although the older GIRLS are always carrying much of the burden of helping taking care of younger siblings, which is in no way fair to them.)

    But in many cases, you see robotic children in cult-like families.
    Take the best known family, the Duggars.

    They should be looked into, I don´t even know whether what I am writing is controversial, but it is my gut feeling the kids in many of those families need help.

    And I want to stress, and as I said, not ALL families with large numbers of children are cult-like, some are very happy families!
     
  5. georgiajean

    georgiajean Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Thank you for clearly saying what I have been thinking, and trying to say very poorly!!
    As an educator, I see daily the long-term effects of trauma. Our community is doing a full-court press on trauma, trying to eliminate many causes of trauma to stop it from happening in the first place (homelessness, food insecurity, drug use/abuse, etc).
    Thank you.
     
  6. georgiajean

    georgiajean Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Well said. Thank you for sharing your experience and clarifying the long-term impacts of the child welfare system and trauma. Also thank you for explaining how/why this information is not meant to clear the Hart women of responsibility, or to blame the children.
     
  7. musemoon

    musemoon Well-Known Member

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    This was exactly my experience as well.
     
  8. Quill

    Quill Well-Known Member

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    BBM and edited by me

    I had asked about her actual degree a couple of pages back. I believe the answer was BS in Elementary Ed. with a minor in Special Ed. This is why I asked. Varying degree programs aside and considering that I earned my degree a loooong time ago, I am not sure that even a minor in Sp. Ed. would adequately prepare a person. Someone earlier had mentioned that Sarah should have had training in "such and such" methods which prompted my question to ask about her degree. I think that Special Ed. degree is much more extensive/specialized and would also have required added strengths. I just can't see a minor providing enough to assume she had a highly specialized knowledge. Someone who has been through that degree program more recently may want to jump in here and add some insight.

    She may very well have thought she could handle it but was mistaken. The reality of being the parent is very different from the textbook or classroom application. But curiously, she was the parent who worked outside the home, right?

    Of course, at this time, we really do not know what the children's levels of capability and/or special needs they might have had. All we know is what we have gleaned from the moms' social media. This whole case is just so sad.
     
  9. otto

    otto Verified Expert

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    My only source of information for Sarah and her education degree is this website. That said, I have not seen anything about her actually teaching. This fact is very important in terms of assessing whether she was actually a good candidate to teach children.

    In my area, graduating teachers who are good candidates are immediately hired and placed in tenure track positions where they are granted permanent teaching certification in two years. Graduating teachers with potential are hired and complete teaching certification over several years (sometimes as long as ten). Many graduating teachers are put in the substitute teaching stream, which essentially means they will never have a full time teaching position except in small districts with fewer hiring options, and roughly 40% never see the inside of a classroom because they don't have the diversity of skills required to teach.

    If Sarah did not hold a teaching position, chances are she was deemed an unsuitable candidate for the classroom. It's quite likely that an adoption agency would view her education degree as meaning she was more qualified to address the needs of special needs children, but if she was not hired as an educator after graduation, education institutions would see the opposite - that she is in no way qualified to work with special needs children or any other children.

    Given what we know today, neither of these women should have been allowed to adopt. I do have to wonder if their lesbian status worked in their favor, where political correctness to some degree was more important than a thorough analysis of their parenting skills.
     
  10. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

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    Who would be in charge of deciding how "big" a family was before it was considered "child hoarding"? Would a specific number be put on it? Who would decide that number? What kind of "monitoring" would take place and who would implement such a thing?

    As a former social worker, I can attest to the fact that family services is already stretched far past its limits when it comes to caseloads and investigating actual abuse claims. In my years of working with literally hundreds of families, only ONE made it through our office (and our office covered 14 counties in my state) that had more than 4 children in the family. And that case was found unsubstantiated because, as it turned out, it was a legitimate health issue that someone was mistaking as neglect.

    For every "bad" case we hear about in the media that involves large families, there are at least a few dozen "good" ones that we don't hear about. Abuse happens just as frequently in one-child homes as it does in large families. In my professional experience, it happens more frequently.
     
  11. Cryptic

    Cryptic Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, but I don't think so.

    Rather, the two people were willing to adopt children who were difficult, or even very difficult to place. Factor in that many states have streamlined the adoption process and may have relaxed, to some degree, the qualification requirements for all adoptive parents (prospective adopters no longer need to demonstrate "Parent of the Year" potential) in order to place children in need with families.

    Then, add the possibility that the duo may have deteriorated slowly and there could be ground work for a creeping disaster regardless of sexual orientation.

    Very well said and a very good illustration of the pitfalls of the families that don't follow my personal norms are "suspicious" and "suspicious" people need to be "monitored" line of thought.
     
  12. Whiteorchids

    Whiteorchids Well-Known Member

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    Do y’all in CA remember Octomom Nadya Suleman who gave birth to Octuplets? She already had 6 biological kids total of 14 and is a single mom. When her story broke in the news she lived a few streets over from me but has since moved. I used to see her and her kids in Target. They always looked happy and well. She struggled to support her kids and almost committed suicide. She has turned her life around. I saw her lately on a couple of talk shows and on my local radio not too long ago. Her and her children appear to be doing quite well.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5172919/Octomom-says-finally-peace-14-children.html
     
  13. longlonglake

    longlonglake Member

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    There is something grotesque about the way the Hartley Hooligans paraded the girl around, put lipstick on her, etc. Is that even their real family name?
     
  14. Quill

    Quill Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you have covered many of my thoughts with your answer, especially regarding the area of actual teaching experience and coping skills. It is notable that even though she was the parent working outside the home, she was not using that degree.

    I haven't used my degree in many years, but I was one of those snapped up upon graduation. That is how that works. I eventually chose a different route (SAHM); too many corporate moves with the husband and wanting consistency for my own children.
     
  15. blue22

    blue22 Well-Known Member

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    In Texas, I honestly find it hard to believe it did.
     
  16. Whiteorchids

    Whiteorchids Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I think they used the kids for their own agenda to get recognition in the public.
     
  17. enelram

    enelram Well-Known Member

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    I've been watching to see if there was any kind of public announcement, even for releasing the bodies, which ME's usually let the press know if asked. i haven't seen anything. I also wonder if they'll all be buried together or how it will be handled. This could be awkward for the families if the women were estranged, very private and if the families
    did not approve of their 'lifestyle'.
     
  18. bears10

    bears10 Well-Known Member

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    My stepdaughter is 17 and very thin, and not “well endowed”. She’s so thin that when she sits in the front seat of my car, the airbags turn off. That being said, she still LOOKS like a 16/17 year old. Hannah truly looks 12 years old to me. None of them look their ages to me, but Hannah stands out the most imo. I feel like she may have gotten the brunt of abuse.
     
  19. rosemadderlake

    rosemadderlake Well-Known Member

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    Authorities have not released the remains of Hart family members killed in SUV plunge to relatives; missing Sierra Hart’s age may have been miscalculated:

    Mendocino County Sheriff Public Information Officer Captain Greg Van Patten told CrimeOnline that authorities were able to identify the remains of Markis Hart, 19; Jeremiah Hart, 14; and Abigail Hart, 14, through photographs and with the help of Jennifer and Sarah Hart’s relatives, who knew their adopted children. Both mothers were found dead inside their 2003 GMS Yukon after it plunged over a cliff into the Pacific Ocean on March 26, with Jennifer behind the wheel. The children were found outside the vehicle. At this time, authorities believe Jennifer drove the SUV over a cliff intentionally.

    The sheriff’s office has placed a hold on the recovered bodies, meaning that the remains will not be released to relatives for dispensation at this time.

    Jennifer and Sarah Hart were “largely estranged” from their families, Van Patten said, but the relatives were aware of the children and had interacted with them.

    http://www.crimeonline.com/2018/04/...harts-age-may-have-been-miscalculated-police/

    ---
    Bbm: Bodies are being held for positive ID? I'm not sure of other reasons? Maybe waiting for test results or review that determine previous injury, or time of death?
     
  20. enelram

    enelram Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^^^ I would not be surprised if the parents' families only want to handle the funerals/burials for their individual daughters and not be financially responsible for all the children.

    that comment from the sheriff sounds odd to me, which is why I commented as I did.
     
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