CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

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Starkville

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We're getting dangerously close to speculation here, so I hesitate to make this any deeper... and I preface all of this with a big, fat IMO... but I wouldn't be surprised if one or both women distanced themselves from abusive families of origin. Reactive attachment syndrome, untreated in adults, is often diagnosed as borderline personality disorder. The same patterns of fear of abandonment, intense superficial attachment, and a fixation with grandiosity/personal image characterize both. As numerous other posters have observed, Jen displays many of the characteristic behaviors. The message to their Facebook friends listing a litany of personal misfortunes and tragedies, while covering up the involvement of CPS, is a big red flag to me.

Not to get too much into it, but my mother is one of five children. One of the sisters estranged herself from everyone. Then my mother went “No Contact” with them, too (cutting my sister and I off from everyone). Since FaceBook, my sister and I have a little contact with my mom’s family, but we aren’t very close.

They’re not awful people, IMO. They’re regular people with personality flaws. My grandmother was supposedly a toxic narcissist, and so was the aunt who went No Contact decades ago.

Here’s the twist: My mother, frankly, is toxic, herself. She does the things she claimed THEY did. Sometimes the person leaving the family behind is the one with the problem.

AND it’s an abusive technique. If you can manage to alienate your intimate partner from their family and friends, they’re more dependent and easier to control. ABUSE 101.
 

krasch0705

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I was the scapegoat in my family of 6 kids. So much so that I ran away from home at 13 and basically never looked back. I went to college, have a decent job, but was/am unable to sustain any type of marriage or relationship in my life (thus far - at 58).

Indeed she did have courage, but she was also desperate. She knew more than we will ever know about how it was living inside of that house. Although she was small in stature/build, she was 15-16 yrs old and had lived with her adoptive parents for many years and all too aware of what was going-on. I agree with those who suggest she was the scapegoat.

There are some lessons to be learned and one of them is Report, and particularly when a minor child arrives at your door at 1:30 am covered in weeds from having RUN from her home. You don't have to be the judge: Call the authorities to make that decision.

If I were the neighbors, I would be grieving for the rest of my life that I did not Report.

~jmo~
 

Starkville

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Here's something I hadn't thought of. What if one or more of the children kept a journal? It would be really common that out of 6 children several of them would have had one. I will also note that unless the photos were completely staged, some of the children were reading pretty high level books. If that is true, and there are journals, they could really shed some light on what was going on in that house.

On a related note, since there isn't anyone to try for this crime, I wonder if any information they gained from the house will be released. And if so, on what timeline? I admit complete ignorance on how and why or even if things like that can be released.


Judging from the spelling on the grocery store list, many people in the home were close to illiterate.

edited to add: There was a photo of the family’s grocery list posted on FB. It was supposed to be “cute”, because of things on the list that weren’t groceries (“longer pants”). In hindsight it was sad.
 

dixiegirl1035

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News said it was an African American girl they won’t know more until the Autopsy on Tues, DNA will take longer.

The thought of her floating out there alone this long in the cold water sickens me. Who knows if she was ejected into the ocean she may not have died right away.

What are they using as a standard for her in a DNA test? When they are adopted, they take DNA samples and save them? If they are going in trying to find something at the house that was hers like a toothbrush her hairbrush, how would they know which child was which?
 

PoirotryInMotion

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From an article timeline on the LE Facebook page link above--anyone else miss this?

April 7, 2018: An unidentified body, believed to be that of a black female, is found in the ocean near the site of the crash. Officials said an identification could take weeks.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/03/hart_family_deadly_crash_a_tim.html

ETA: just saw Novalee's post (#794) about this upthread.




 

RiceCasparr

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Just thinking: the police obviously have access to financial records, yet they appealed to the public for information about their route and any sightings, right?. I think they may have used cash. They traced Jen to Safeway from her using her club card. Either she didn't yet know what she was going to do, or she used it out of habit. But that doesn't explain the lack of financial trail. They would know if they stayed at either a hotel or paid to access to campground. So they either slept in the car, went somewhere that was free, or paid cash. Hmmm... Of course, the police also used cell phone pings to determine some things, so they should already have a good idea of where they were. They must have chosen not to say for now.
They are also probably trying to corroborate without influencing. For instance if they released info that the family stayed at a Motel 6, people might suddenly think they saw them or provide false information. By appealing to the public for information first, they get more accurate accounts that they can then either match up or dismiss based on what they know.

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PoirotryInMotion

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Have read a few times now (including that facebook link with Lance Gry's removed comments concerning Glass Beach) that Sierra's age has been amended to be 15 rather than 12. One article said they'd 'miscalculated' her age. Wondering how they came to that conclusion (Sierra is one of the missing kids).
 

RiceCasparr

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Both good suggestions. It's natural to hesitate before reporting a domestic issue, on the chance that you're overreacting. No one wants to be "that neighbor." But better to be called nosey than have something like this on your conscience.
That's why mandatory reporters are supposed to REPORT not investigate. The agency (in most states the police) decide if the report needs to be followed up, and oftentimes it can be done without even disturbing the family. At least that's been my experience as a mandated reporter who works with children.

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Miranda

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What are they using as a standard for her in a DNA test? When they are adopted, they take DNA samples and save them? If they are going in trying to find something at the house that was hers like a toothbrush her hairbrush, how would they know which child was which?
I would think that Markis and Abigail could provide DNA to identify Hannah and Jeremiah could do the same for Sierra.
 

antechinusRAWR

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What are they using as a standard for her in a DNA test? When they are adopted, they take DNA samples and save them? If they are going in trying to find something at the house that was hers like a toothbrush her hairbrush, how would they know which child was which?


Presumably they'll just see whether she's a familial match for Markis or whether she's a familial match for Jeremiah, & that will tell them whether they have Hannah or Sierra
 

Zelda1010

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Just thinking: the police obviously have access to financial records, yet they appealed to the public for information about their route and any sightings, right?. I think they may have used cash. They traced Jen to Safeway from her using her club card. Either she didn't yet know what she was going to do, or she used it out of habit. But that doesn't explain the lack of financial trail. They would know if they stayed at either a hotel or paid to access to campground. So they either slept in the car, went somewhere that was free, or paid cash. Hmmm... Of course, the police also used cell phone pings to determine some things, so they should already have a good idea of where they were. They must have chosen not to say for now.

They might still be waiting on bank records? I used to work in the records department of a bank. It isn't an instantaneous thing to pull up all transactions since there is no one alive to get them online easily. If they had to subpoena them, they might still be waiting on that piece for a couple of days. Jmo
 

SATA

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Indeed she did have courage, but she was also desperate. She knew more than we will ever know about how it was living inside of that house. Although she was small in stature/build, she was 15-16 yrs old and had lived with her adoptive parents for many years and all too aware of what was going-on. I agree with those who suggest she was the scapegoat.

There are some lessons to be learned and one of them is Report, and particularly when a minor child arrives at your door at 1:30 am covered in weeds from having RUN from her home. You don't have to be the judge: Call the authorities to make that decision.

If I were the neighbors, I would be grieving for the rest of my life that I did not Report.

~jmo~

Her bravery did not pay off.
Just like one of the older Turpin girls who escaped and was brought back home.

As a society, we need to learn from this. Listen to the kids.
 

Zelda1010

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What experts and what are they basing this on?

Ive said it before and I will say it now- I think people are placing blame
on Jen because Sarah is younger, more attactive and more feminine than Jen.

There is zero evidence that Sarah was a victim. None. She pled guilty to child abuse. She lived in that house, stayed home with the kids and was part of the tribe rushing over to find Hannah and yank her back.

She admitted to a friend that she wasn't handling homeschooling very well but bristled when the friend offered assistance.

Both of these women seemed into appearance to me. Like other abusive couples they found their match in one another and IMO egged each other on or reinforced abusive parenting "techniques" because clearly neither one put a stop to what was happening in that house.

I do not believe Jen killed everyone while they slept and were unaware. Sarah rushed home immediately after CPS came knocking and loaded up her kids with her spouse and took off right after that.

Nothing suggests these women weren't making decisions together and both decided to murder their kids rather than face the indignity of having the curtain pulled back. Nothing.

I don't know if it changes your view at all, i doubt it does, but Sarah worked and Jen stayed home.

eta..and they are the same age

And Jen was the one accused of abuse in both 2008 & the 2010 abuse Sarah pled guilty to, which you seem to agree has some privilege attached to it, I believe the child who says Jen acts tough and beat her and dunked her head and Sarah pleading guilty might be evidence of Jen's control.

Not to say Sarah wasn't sort of BPD to Jen's seeming NPD. And the recent accusations are "they" are abusing Hannah and withholding food. So, I'm conflicted about Sarah and appreciate other's thoughts to chew on.
 

Zelda1010

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Nothing new. Just repeating media releases from Mendocino about body found & update to Sierra's age.

http://eepurl.com/dqICiD
MEDIA ADVISORY/NEWS RELEASE

DATE: "April 7, 2018"

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Incident Number: 2018-9877

Crime/Incident: Coroners Case, Body Recovery Near the Hart Family Crash Site

Location: Highway 1 at Juan Creek, Westport CA

Date of Incident: 04-07-2018

Time: 1:58 PM

Victim(s): African American Female, age unknown

Suspect(s): N/A

Written By: Lieutenant Shannon Barney

Synopsis: On April 7, 2018 around 1:58 PM the California Highway Patrol (CHP) received a call regarding a found body in the surf of the Pacific Ocean at Juan Creek and Highway 1 in Westport CA. This area is in the immediate vicinity of the recent Hart Family crash. The Mendocino County Sheriff's Office responded to the location to conduct a Coroner's Investigation and learned that a couple, vacationing along the coast, observed a possible body floating in the surf near Juan Creek. The Westport Fire Department had patrolled the area an hour prior but did not see anything. The body was pulled from the surf, onto the beach, by a third bystander where it was later recovered by Westport Fire.

The recovered body appears to be that of an African American Female but the age and a postitive identity could not be determined. An autopsy will be conducted on Tuesday and the cause of death is unknown. The Sheriff's Office is investigating the possibility that the body may be one of the two missing Hart girls but identification will most likely be done through DNA analysis, a process that can take several weeks.

It is not uncommon after a significant storm, such as the one passing through the north state currently, to bring items to the surface or wash onto the beach. The Mendocino County Sheriff's Office is monitoring the ocean conditions to see when further searches might be safetly conducted. This evaluation includes the use of divers if conditions permit. There were no other signs of the other missing Hart children.

http://eepurl.com/dqHH4b
Missing Persons:

Devonte Hart, 15 years of age, Woodland Washington
Hannah Hart, 16 years of age, Woodland Washington
Sierra Hart, 15 years of age, Woodland Washington
Ongoing updates/photos will also be posted on the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office facebook page as information becomes available (https://www.facebook.com/MendocinoSheriff).

Due to the massive media attention related to this incident the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office has been receiving an overwhelming amount of telephone calls and emails. The massive number of inquires for information is hampering the routine daily operations of the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office.

In an attempt to resolve this situation the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office will be sending out an electronic written press release each day at 9:00 AM highlighting information from the previous day's investigative work.
 

gcharlie

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They tell a very specific story. I can see why everyone thought they were so great. Judging by those photos alone, they were a lovely happy family.

There are 83 pictures in this linked article http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/04/post_296.html

I'll make some observations and point to specific pictures. As Starkville commented, these pictures do tell a specific story and paint the picture of a happy family. There are some pictures where the kids look genuinely happy. Unknown if the absence of any individual photos of Hannah and Markis is representative of the FB page or if this was an editorial choice by Oregon Live, but images of them are conspicuously absent. The chicken is featured in more shots than these two kids.

Many of the photos are from the past year or so and show the kids in settings outside of festivals and organized events, giving a sense of more balance to their family life. Most of the shots are carefully composed and some are clearly staged or styled, and as a professional photographer, I imagine that Jen shot multiple images of the same scene and selected the best ones for posting.

#7- Devonte, chicken in wading pool with a book and martini glass. Cross reference #73 of boys with wine glasses.

#8- Happy Mothers Day- one of the few pictures I've seen anywhere of a family holiday celebration. Probably taken in 2014.

#14- Sarah and Abigail on an amusement park ride. Relatively recent. Abigail looks genuinely happy.

#15- Jeremiah "giving" Devonte a haircut. Shot taken in West Linn home.

#18- Sierra laying floor in reading room (ref. #28 for finished room) of new home in Woodland. Notice how carefully staged and composed this photo is. Sierra appears to have much longer hair in this picture, given the volume under her bandanna.

#19- Devonte on a rider mower. No idea where this was taken or when. The home in West Linn was in a very steep and hilly neighborhood with smallish lots. The new home in Woodland is on 2 acres with some flat land, but not the type of fencing seen in this picture.

#22- Sierra, Markis and Devonte and the chicken- blackberry harvest. Probably taken summer 2017.

# 25. Devonte, Jeremiah and Abigail wearing eclipse glasses. The August 21, 2017 solar eclipse was 98% in Clark County, WA, but this picture seems to have been taken earlier.

# 27- Living room in new house in Woodland with Devonte using dog as a cushion for reading. Again, this is a carefully staged photo, most likely shot from a ladder or standing on a chair. The furniture in this room is not the same furniture that was in the West Linn living room from years earlier and the room looks immaculate. Room looks very grown up for a household of kids in their early teens.

#73- Jeremiah and Devonte with playing cards, wine glasses, a paint tin and orbital sander on an outdoor deck. I've seen this deck before and believe this is the West Linn house. But what's up with pictures of kids with alcoholic beverage glasses?

#77- Nice, relatively recent picture of Devonte and Jeremiah. They both look happy and relaxed in this portrait. The smiles appear genuine and not as forced as in some of the other posed pictures.

#79- Abigail, chicken in front of greenhouse with snow and paper whites. Taken within the last three months.

#81- Jeremiah, Devonte and Markis in the 2003 GMC Yukon. Notice that both Jeremiah and Devonte are wearing seat belts.

#82. Devonte with seedlings, taken March 2018 in Woodland living room.

There's still more new pictures in there, but I don't have comments for all of them.
 

gcharlie

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What are they using as a standard for her in a DNA test? When they are adopted, they take DNA samples and save them? If they are going in trying to find something at the house that was hers like a toothbrush her hairbrush, how would they know which child was which?

They'll be able to match DNA to one of the already identified dead siblings.
 

SATA

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Bumping this link. Photos.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/04/post_296.html

Devonte: clenched fists, clenched teeth in a lot of the photos.
Hannah: has a defiant vibe about her, doesn´t smile much (maybe because of her missing teeth), doesn´t participate much in the staging of happy family life. Smart girl, but she probably paid a high price for her integrity.

I don´t think the mothers loved the kids for who they were individually (maybe Sarah did, they seem more relaxed around her).
It´s like loving the idea of the perfect family life.

Their house and garden is extremely clean and well kept.
 
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