CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

[Edmo]

I think so too. Especially considering it was the beginning of the month and his rent was due. Was it $2,500.? $3,000?

Remember, according to McGyver, Chase was at JM's on 1/31 and 2/2. My guess is....Chase was desperate and trying to get rent/food money from Joey. So CM goes to Joey's on 1/31 to ask for money. But, instead of handing over a couple of thousand like he's probably done many times in the past, JM might have said something like "let me go over the books tonight and see where we're at".

The next day, on 2/1 JM sends CM the email showing that Chase owed $42,845.00.

Still desperate and needing money, Chase decides to try again and goes back to Joey's on 2/2. This is when, IMO, Joey gives Chase the check for $200. Not $2,000..only $200.

This is the turning point IMO, I think Chase might have realized he wasn't going to be able to manipulate Joey anymore and their collaboration was coming to an end.

Chase goes home, prints the check for $2,495. Goes to Union Bank and cashes it.

There is no going back now. All MOO!

Which makes 100% sense. However, the CM defenders WILL find a reason that it doesn't. So far, IMO, the WS'ers have NAILED the M.O. of CM in this case and it is slowly leaking/backfiring on the DT about his MOTIVE for killing 4 innocent souls.

 

[Cricket28]

The love of money is the root of all evil. Chase Merritt is far from being the only one that loves money.

BBM
Thank you for getting that right smr.
Money is not the root of all evil... it's the love of money!
The love part always seems to get left out.

 

[travelbug]

This is a direct quote from the article I posted: ..."In July 2011, Kavanaugh ended up selling McStay's business, Earth Inspired Products"...
1) That is only 16 months after the disappearance and the general perception was the family "willingly left".
2) There had been no court mandated settlement of the estate at that time.
3) Under what possible legal premise did DK have the right to sell Joey's business.
These are the questions that give me pause in deciding whether CM is the only person involved with the crime, let alone the sole perp and deserving of murder 1! moo

Only 16 months? As I said, a long time later. Iirc DK came into contact with these people after he placed the ad online in 2011, so unless he wisked them all back in time to help murder the family, it's a lot to infer.

Not once did I say those buyers had anything to do with the crime. The only person I'm questioning is DK and his questionable activities regarding Joey and EIP. The DT will undoubtedly raise similar concerns if they put DK on the stand. They mentioned that during OS. As I have mentioned, many times, I analyze the trial (including testimony and exhibits) from the perspective of a juror. If the trial ended today, I couldn't convict someone of murder 1 based solely on what has already been presented by both sides. I can't form a decision until all of the evidence, testimony and arguments for/against have been heard. I just don't understand why no one else is interested in finding out what's presented during the remaining portion of the trial. jmho

 

[oceanblueeyes]

But we cannot ignore that he had Ben gambling for years and the impact that can have on his eventual downward spiral

It is like drug addiction or heart disease. You can abuse yourself for years and at some point the accumulation builds to a critical level.

Chase abused his bod for years —cutting corners,stealing, using joeys supplies for his own projects, doing shoddy work, lying about clients and skipping work to go gamble instead

At some point that kind of behavior overrides his work relationship with his boss.

Add to that, his long time gambling addiction which had severely hampered him financially—-no bank account,no credit,cannot pay rent or bills for family,no money coming in because of his big debts over his head already.

So in my opinion, the fact that he’s a long time gambler is very important to the story.

Add to that, his previous debts to Joey , like the 19 k chargeback and you have a very volatile situation. I think Joey finally said that he was going to keep the next payments owed to Chase so they could even up the balance. And that didn’t go over well with the desperate gambler who was tapped out and manic at the time.

I agree Katy with your summation about CMs stark life reality, and the importance of his out of control gambling addiction. Everything was coming to a head, and he knew he was crashing, and burning!

He was desperate for money. The only way he could function due to his beyond dismal credit was to have cash only to pay for any, and everything.

And where did he know he illegally get cash to even pay for supplies, and materials even for small projects, and feed his insatiable gambling addiction? By stealing it. Imo

CM had burned all of his bridges. He had made way too many enemies. Pizzed off way too many people. Had a business reputation from hell.

Then to top it all off he steals from the very cash cow who had kept him afloat. He knew he had stepped in it bigtime, because even easy going Joey wasn't going to tolerate him stealing, especially when Joey knew CM had a huge amount he already owed him, but never repaid him a dime.

It was never enough for CM. He had to keep pushing the envelope, and this time it blew up in his face. He knew it had finally hit the fan!

Imo

 

[la2cabo]

Not once did I say those buyers had anything to do with the crime. The only person I'm questioning is DK and his questionable activities regarding Joey and EIP. The DT will undoubtedly raise similar concerns if they put DK on the stand. They mentioned that during OS. As I have mentioned, many times, I analyze the trial (including testimony and exhibits) from the perspective of a juror. If the trial ended today, I couldn't convict someone of murder 1 based solely on what has already been presented by both sides. I can't form a decision until all of the evidence, testimony and arguments for/against have been heard. I just don't understand why no one else is interested in finding out what's presented during the remaining portion of the trial. jmho

Did you happen to see Judge Smith's explanation as to why he was denying the Motion to Dismiss? In my opinion he put a beautiful bow on the package after explaining the many reasons why Merritt murdered the McStays and why the charges should stick and the trial move forward.

 

[Cricket28]

Disliking and hating are very different. Few people would kill someone because they dislike them.

Oh I believe Chase HATED Summer. With a passion.

MOO

 

[Mica]

Not once did I say those buyers had anything to do with the crime. The only person I'm questioning is DK and his questionable activities regarding Joey and EIP. The DT will undoubtedly raise similar concerns if they put DK on the stand. They mentioned that during OS. As I have mentioned, many times, I analyze the trial (including testimony and exhibits) from the perspective of a juror. If the trial ended today, I couldn't convict someone of murder 1 based solely on what has already been presented by both sides. I can't form a decision until all of the evidence, testimony and arguments for/against have been heard. I just don't understand why no one else is interested in finding out what's presented during the remaining portion of the trial. jmho

Good points. Presumption of innocence until all evidence (from both sides) is presented in full and the jury comes to a decision. That’s what our justice system is all about.

 

[travelbug]

Did you happen to see Judge Smith's explanation as to why he was denying the Motion to Dismiss? In my opinion he put a beautiful bow on the package after explaining the many reasons why Merritt murdered the McStays and why the charges should stick and the trial move forward.

Yes, I try to analyze all presentations. I'm exceptionally familiar with court procedure and with the current restriction on judges, in terms of evidence and dismissal it is exceedingly rare to see that ruling. I was running anti-CM until the PT presented their case and I listened to the DT cross and the expert witnesses. That pushed my need back to the middle. I'm not saying anyone needs to see this trial the same way I do. But, it requires a firm and convincing testimony and evidence to say, even someone as messed up as CM, "sentence that man to death". I'm thinking there are jurors that may have the same standard for a death sentence conviction. Now, if you want to talk about Found Deceased - AL - Amberly Barnett, 11, Mt. Vernon, DeKalb County, 1 Mar 2019 #2 *ARREST* - it's a different story. I could easily shoot that monster myself.

 

[katydid23]

I will have to listen to it again later. I don't disagree that it appears Chase was paid the 19k, but wouldn't you agree that a big portion of that was probably for supplies to actually build the fountain? or is this again a situation where Chase made a fountain out of thin air and there would not have been any expenses involved?

I don't think Chase was the greatest guy to be in business with by any means, but in any other situation, I don't know how Joey could require a sub contractor to pay back money like that in that situation? Joey's own words were that it was 85% of the fountain that was installed. He seemed to side with Chase with not completing the glass for the fountain until they received the remainder of the fountain. Was Chase supposed to go in and finish it without Joey getting full payment?

Like I posted a little while ago... I think the prosecution thought this was the insurance fountain. They are wrong. IMO I will also have to go back to Sequieda's testimony to see if "Provecho" was mentioned, I don't recall at the moment! It's a beautiful spring day here though and I'm heading out for a few hours so it will have to wait until later Unless maybe someone else wants to check it out before I get back....

Sure there were material costs in a project that big. But I bet that Joey took most of those on himself. I highly doubt that he expected Chase to be able to payout such a big chunk on s large fountain like that

 

[katydid23]

That is one of the reasons it's not like Chase did it. There must be others who actually hated her, not just didn't like her as in the case of Chase. And there must be other people whom Chase didn't like just as he didn't like Summer. There is no sign that Chase actively hated Summer, let alone couldn't stand her existence, so much that he killed her in such brutal way along with her whole family.

I totally disagree

Did anyone else say hateful things about her, after her dead body was found battered in the desert dump site?

 

[la2cabo]

Yes, I try to analyze all presentations. I'm exceptionally familiar with court procedure and with the current restriction on judges, in terms of evidence and dismissal it is exceedingly rare to see that ruling. I was running anti-CM until the PT presented their case and I listened to the DT cross and the expert witnesses. That pushed my need back to the middle. I'm not saying anyone needs to see this trial the same way I do. But, it requires a firm and convincing testimony and evidence to say, even someone as messed up as CM, "sentence that man to death". I'm thinking there are jurors that may have the same standard for a death sentence conviction. Now, if you want to talk about Found Deceased - AL - Amberly Barnett, 11, Mt. Vernon, DeKalb County, 1 Mar 2019 #2 *ARREST* - it's a different story. I could easily shoot that monster myself.

I wish they would take the death penalty off the table especially since my wonderful state doesn't follow through with it anyway. I'm afraid more than one juror might think with their emotions rather than go with what the evidence actually points to. Very few people want to be responsible for sentencing a person to death.

 

[missy1974]

Sure there were material costs in a project that big. But I bet that Joey took most of those on himself. I highly doubt that he expected Chase to be able to payout such a big chunk on s large fountain like that

There is as much evidence that Joey paid for the supplies as there is that Chase did... none. But I also don't recall reading that Joey saying he was "out" the supply costs as well and I would have expected him to, which leads me to believe he had none. But that's JMO

 

[katydid23]

It's not normal. Even extreme disliking is very different from hating. And not being normal doesn't imply hating or even killing. He could be a nasty person, a thief, a psychopath, but even these together don't imply being murderous.

He is a nasty,thieving psychopath. And that doesn’t imply he is murderous-in itself

But if you add those qualities above to the many circumstances which point to his involvement in Joeys last day known to be alive—-that implies murder in my opinion

 

[la2cabo]

There is as much evidence that Joey paid for the supplies as there is that Chase did... none. But I also don't recall reading that Joey saying he was "out" the supply costs as well and I would have expected him to, which leads me to believe he had none. But that's JMO

Merritt could barely feed his family, where would he get money to pay for any supplies?

 

[mom2chloe]

They do studies regarding angle of the blow, etc. My hesitation with a determination is I think just a single jaw-breaking blow would drop her to the ground (she was a tiny gal) and at that point, from footage I've seen of various attacks, it would be more likely she was kicked. imho

I agree yet despite this, there was clearly overkill. IMHO

 

[katydid23]

That's after being shot in the nose, forehead and chest. I've often wondered if the waterfall fountain business was nothing more than a means to 'wash' drug money, pun intended, this would explain the poor bookkeeping and multiple accounts along with why the family was hesitant to get involved.

Many of us thought so st one point. But that was thoroughly investigated and found to be unwarranted accusation

This was an actual water fountain business and was making product and delivering products and making a good income

 

[mom2chloe]

Merritt could barely feed his family, where would he get money to pay for any supplies?

And Joey would have paid the expenses for any materials of any job. It’s the way it works and knowing that Chase didn’t have any cash to provide his own materials Joey was footing the bill for all materials.

 

[Karinna]

The DT have so far only questioned CJ about the Provecho deal haven't they? Do you all think they will likely bring it up again with any further witnesses?

 

[Karinna]

And Joey would have paid the expenses for any materials of any job. It’s the way it works and knowing that Chase didn’t have any cash to provide his own materials Joey was footing the bill for all materials.

Good point and i agree.

 

[Karinna]

I wish they would take the death penalty off the table especially since my wonderful state doesn't follow through with it anyway. I'm afraid more than one juror might think with their emotions rather than go with what the evidence actually points to. Very few people want to be responsible for sentencing a person to death.

Yes it's always difficult in DP cases as to how a jury will find. But i also think if jurors have too much difficulty with the DP they shouldn't be on the jury either.